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A friend of mine is a software engineer in a conservative industry, and their company brought out the same "no politics at work" last summer. Their benefits pac

A friend of mine is a software engineer in a conservative industry, and their company brought out the same "no politics at work" last summer. Their benefits package has some language specifically referring to only extending health insurance coverage to hetero spouses, and only permitting time off for a new child if the employee gave birth to it, so nothing for adoptions, fathers, or surrogate births. People have been trying to bring these issues up to HR but they get immediately shut down, "That's politics. Stop trying to force the company to pick a side. Please refer to section 7(a) revision 2 of your employee handbook".

anm89 5y ago
Right, this is how it should be. If that is a deal breaker then find a different employer. Work is not a forum to compete for your personal views. It is a forum to exchange your time for money or equity as per your contract. If you feel it should be different, make sure you are holding enough equity to set the rules or as I mentioned, find a new job that agrees with you.
- katbyte 5y ago
  so a conservative employer gets to just discriminate against blacks/gays/women/ect and that's ok with you? do you see the problem here when employees can't speak out and are shut down with "no political speech or your fired" "if your not christian you shouldn't work here"
  - chii 5y ago
    well luckily, some particular traits have been made illegal to discriminate against, because in the past, terrible consequences have been had from such discrimination. > blacks/gays/women/ect But this doesnt mean that _every_ trait falls afoul - and if you want your trait to gain the special status of being illegal to discriminate against, this work (aka, activism) should be undertaken with private resources, not the resources of the company for which you are employed. Trying to recruit people into your cause during work hours should also be discouraged - but giving invites to dinners/lunches and having private discussions outside workhours should be allowed.
  - anm89 5y ago
    Go read Title 7 of the Civil rights act. That's not how any of this works.
- xpe 5y ago
  > If you feel it should be different, make sure you are holding enough equity to set the rules or as I mentioned, find a new job that agrees with you. This is a false dichotomy. It is analogous to people who say "love it or leave it" with regards to patriotism for a country. In my experience, when I hear a person say "if you don't like X about what Y does, find a new Y", I also find evidence that they often lack the ability to observe without judgement. Because of this, they may lack compassion. Would you say the same thing to someone who doesn't have much leverage to find a better job? I wonder, would you tell them "to just deal with it"? Or would you simply admit that there are many paths to addressing issues? There are people in the world that are rule-followers to a fault. 1. Say your partner has a life threatening emergency and you must drive them to the hospital. Do you run a stop sign if there is no cross traffic? Rule followers might say no. However, a higher standard of ethics might say that saving a life is more important. 2. Say your company has a policy that says "don't talk about your concerns about the company on the message board". Let's say you have concerns and have raised them via "proper" channels but the result in unsatisfactory. Do you raise them more generally? Rule followers might say no. Wise people weigh the issue and consider the pros and cons. The world is about actions and consequences. In my view, that is what the rules tell you. The rules don't always simplistically define ethics. Rules, like any formal system, are not adequate substitutes for guiding principles and conscience.
- djrobstep 5y ago
  Why shouldn't employees have a say in how their own workplaces are run? EDIT: I see this is being downvoted. It's a genuine good faith question, and if you've downvoted, I'd love to know what you see as unconstructive about this comment. I'm sure the HN community would not be so petty as to downvote it out of pure ideology.
  - voidfunc 5y ago
    Why should they? It is not their business. If they want a say in how it is run they can leave or figure out how to buy into the business as an investor/owner. Employees are literally in place to do one thing: trade time/energy for money in service of the companies goals.
    - katbyte 5y ago
      so businesses are allowed to be racist because "they own it"? what's next start paying women and POC less because reasons? oh wait
      - wreath 5y ago
        They are allowed to do anything within the law.
    - xpe 5y ago
      > Why should they? It is not their business. Why shouldn't they? Companies make many decisions that are not central to their business -- what snacks to provide, where to hold the company holiday party, etc. Yes, you can claim the above somehow tie into the core business. If so, then I also get to make the connection. I'll argue that (e.g.) supporting Black Lives Matter is a net positive to the company. Take Away: I suggest we dismiss the notion that companies should not take positions on various issues. One may debate the wisdom of companies taking various stances, but I think it is quite ridiculous to claim that companies do not have the freedom to take various stances.
    - djrobstep 5y ago
      You should take a moment to read your own comment and consider how much raw ideology is packed into it - it's just pure authoritarianism. As an illustration of this, consider this similar comment: "Why should peasants have any voting power? It is not their country. If they want a say in how it is run they can leave or figure out how to buy into the country as a feudal lord. Peasants are literally in place to do one thing: trade time/energy for money in service of the King's goals."
voidfunc 5y ago
Perhaps they should have looked at the benefits package before taking the job?
- wombatpm 5y ago
  Or pay attention during an interview. There was a time when Big Idea (The VeggieTales People) were hiring a ton of tech people to manage their render farms, animation systems, etc. A common topic of conversation revolved around when were you saved by Jesus Christ? If you were not a evangelical Christian, you quickly realized you would not be happy working there
david38 5y ago
I find it strange that even a hyper conservative company would prohibit time off for adoption. I took one day off for the birth of my first daughter. I was in college. I couldn’t afford more time.
- mdoms 5y ago
  It seems strange because the comment is an obvious lie.

anm89 5y ago

Right, this is how it should be. If that is a deal breaker then find a different employer. Work is not a forum to compete for your personal views. It is a forum to exchange your time for money or equity as per your contract. If you feel it should be different, make sure you are holding enough equity to set the rules or as I mentioned, find a new job that agrees with you.

katbyte 5y ago
so a conservative employer gets to just discriminate against blacks/gays/women/ect and that's ok with you? do you see the problem here when employees can't speak out and are shut down with "no political speech or your fired" "if your not christian you shouldn't work here"
- chii 5y ago
  well luckily, some particular traits have been made illegal to discriminate against, because in the past, terrible consequences have been had from such discrimination. > blacks/gays/women/ect But this doesnt mean that _every_ trait falls afoul - and if you want your trait to gain the special status of being illegal to discriminate against, this work (aka, activism) should be undertaken with private resources, not the resources of the company for which you are employed. Trying to recruit people into your cause during work hours should also be discouraged - but giving invites to dinners/lunches and having private discussions outside workhours should be allowed.
- anm89 5y ago
  Go read Title 7 of the Civil rights act. That's not how any of this works.
xpe 5y ago
> If you feel it should be different, make sure you are holding enough equity to set the rules or as I mentioned, find a new job that agrees with you. This is a false dichotomy. It is analogous to people who say "love it or leave it" with regards to patriotism for a country. In my experience, when I hear a person say "if you don't like X about what Y does, find a new Y", I also find evidence that they often lack the ability to observe without judgement. Because of this, they may lack compassion. Would you say the same thing to someone who doesn't have much leverage to find a better job? I wonder, would you tell them "to just deal with it"? Or would you simply admit that there are many paths to addressing issues? There are people in the world that are rule-followers to a fault. 1. Say your partner has a life threatening emergency and you must drive them to the hospital. Do you run a stop sign if there is no cross traffic? Rule followers might say no. However, a higher standard of ethics might say that saving a life is more important. 2. Say your company has a policy that says "don't talk about your concerns about the company on the message board". Let's say you have concerns and have raised them via "proper" channels but the result in unsatisfactory. Do you raise them more generally? Rule followers might say no. Wise people weigh the issue and consider the pros and cons. The world is about actions and consequences. In my view, that is what the rules tell you. The rules don't always simplistically define ethics. Rules, like any formal system, are not adequate substitutes for guiding principles and conscience.
djrobstep 5y ago
Why shouldn't employees have a say in how their own workplaces are run? EDIT: I see this is being downvoted. It's a genuine good faith question, and if you've downvoted, I'd love to know what you see as unconstructive about this comment. I'm sure the HN community would not be so petty as to downvote it out of pure ideology.
- voidfunc 5y ago
  Why should they? It is not their business. If they want a say in how it is run they can leave or figure out how to buy into the business as an investor/owner. Employees are literally in place to do one thing: trade time/energy for money in service of the companies goals.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    so businesses are allowed to be racist because "they own it"? what's next start paying women and POC less because reasons? oh wait
    - wreath 5y ago
      They are allowed to do anything within the law.
  - xpe 5y ago
    > Why should they? It is not their business. Why shouldn't they? Companies make many decisions that are not central to their business -- what snacks to provide, where to hold the company holiday party, etc. Yes, you can claim the above somehow tie into the core business. If so, then I also get to make the connection. I'll argue that (e.g.) supporting Black Lives Matter is a net positive to the company. Take Away: I suggest we dismiss the notion that companies should not take positions on various issues. One may debate the wisdom of companies taking various stances, but I think it is quite ridiculous to claim that companies do not have the freedom to take various stances.
  - djrobstep 5y ago
    You should take a moment to read your own comment and consider how much raw ideology is packed into it - it's just pure authoritarianism. As an illustration of this, consider this similar comment: "Why should peasants have any voting power? It is not their country. If they want a say in how it is run they can leave or figure out how to buy into the country as a feudal lord. Peasants are literally in place to do one thing: trade time/energy for money in service of the King's goals."

voidfunc 5y ago

Perhaps they should have looked at the benefits package before taking the job?

wombatpm 5y ago
Or pay attention during an interview. There was a time when Big Idea (The VeggieTales People) were hiring a ton of tech people to manage their render farms, animation systems, etc. A common topic of conversation revolved around when were you saved by Jesus Christ? If you were not a evangelical Christian, you quickly realized you would not be happy working there

david38 5y ago

I find it strange that even a hyper conservative company would prohibit time off for adoption. I took one day off for the birth of my first daughter. I was in college. I couldn’t afford more time.

mdoms 5y ago
It seems strange because the comment is an obvious lie.