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So I just bought an ID.4 this weekend after seeing on HN on Friday that it launched in the US. I also test drove a Tesla Y just to double check Saturday morning

So I just bought an ID.4 this weekend after seeing on HN on Friday that it launched in the US. I also test drove a Tesla Y just to double check Saturday morning before doing so. Tesla Y is for sure faster and the better drive. It's also like 10-15k more expensive and that's not even before VW's rebates. The interior was weird -- tiny headrests, tiny mirrors, and really poor back visibility. A giant screen in middle and nothing else wasn't particularly great, and I don't have CarPlay (I know Tesla has a lot of functionality in their system, but I'd personally rather drive it all from my phone to have a more continuous experience in car and out of car). On that screen was a 'video game'-ified representation of what Autopilot was seeing... not only distracting, but kept being wrong while I was stopped at a red light staring at it as it missed the cars in front of me and kept rapidly alternating what direction the incoming lane was going to turn. And that's driving the car? Scary! I don't care about being faster, the ID.4 is plenty fast. I also don't really care about 250mi versus 350mi range or whatever right now.. all are inconvenient for a super long trip. I just recently drove from SF to near Canada... that was a very long multi-day drive and I would for sure not want to have multiple 35m+ stops in addition to the long drive. Until the technology gets WAYYY better I'll just rent ICE cars for a very long drive. Until then 250mi is plenty to get around the Bay Area knowing I can just plugin at home overnight to recharge. VW has build a Electrify America charging network from a 2B settlement for their diesel emissions standards. If they're smart they'll capitalize on this and win much more in the long run by becoming Exxon AND a car company... their network isn't exclusive to their cars. With everyone coming online in the next couple years, Tesla is going to have very real competition. I don't think the areas that they're better at are quite as make/break for car decision making as they claim to be. Elon Musk himself certainly doesn't help as a very divisive figure (and was part of the reason I didn't want a Tesla).

browningstreet 6y ago
I recently compared the number of charging stations for Tesla, Ford and VW here in Reno. Tesla had some, Ford had many, VW had very few. In markets like this that’s gonna hurt for a while.
stsmwg 6y ago
These are almost the exact reason I'm looking forward to test driving an ID.4. I just don't care about the acceleration enough to have that be a plus. I hope you like your ID.4, it really seems like a 'regular car' BEV.
Drunk_Engineer 6y ago
As a former Audi owner, I would never ever buy anything from VW (certainly not after the dieselgate scandal). But good luck with your $45k purchase!
- azinman2 6y ago
  Why specifically? Don’t we want to support them in EVs? Btw it’s -9k with rebates. But I also leased as I anticipate it being uncompetitive in 3 years. Everyone has EVs coming so the tech and competition will mature quickly. This is a first gen car for VW.
  - Drunk_Engineer 6y ago
    There is no obligation to "support" a for-profit corporation like some kind of charity. Certainly VW deserves no such charity. It is a recidivist emissions violator that has been caught doing defeat devices on multiple occasions. It treats customers with the same contempt as it does the EPA. It is good though that you got your vehicle on lease. If it is like my first-generation A4, everything will start to fall apart after 3 years.
pa7ch 6y ago
I wouldn't just say 250 vs 350 is a wash on trips . While the Y isn't better then ICE for road trips its way better then the VW for EV road trips
- azinman2 6y ago
  My point being that neither of which I want to take on a road trip. For that very rare occasion (for me), I’d rent an ICE.
random314 6y ago
A 350 mi range makes all the difference on a trip to Yosemite, Sacramento, Tahoe.
judge2020 6y ago
> And that's driving the car? Scary! The visualization happening there is more limited than what the car actually sees via the cameras, probably for performance reasons (it runs on a Intel Atom processor in the 3/Y) - you can see a more detailed representation on page 8 of https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/4E7BR9_TSLA_Q3_2020_Update_P0Q85U.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22TSLA-Q3-2020-Update.pdf%22#page=8 https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/4E7BR9_TSLA_Q3_2020_Updat... and you can see more from public personalities with access to the beta https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta
jryle70 6y ago
> With everyone coming online in the next couple years, Tesla is going to have very real competition. This is true, but BEV sales is currently only 3% or so of the total automobile market. There is so much room for growth. Tesla, VW, GM, and practically all major automakers pour money into BEV not to take a share in the 3% slice of the market. Tesla will remain the leader in the BEV in the foreseeable future even with more competition. Smaller slide likely, but of a much bigger pie.

browningstreet 6y ago

I recently compared the number of charging stations for Tesla, Ford and VW here in Reno. Tesla had some, Ford had many, VW had very few. In markets like this that’s gonna hurt for a while.

stsmwg 6y ago

These are almost the exact reason I'm looking forward to test driving an ID.4. I just don't care about the acceleration enough to have that be a plus. I hope you like your ID.4, it really seems like a 'regular car' BEV.

Drunk_Engineer 6y ago

As a former Audi owner, I would never ever buy anything from VW (certainly not after the dieselgate scandal). But good luck with your $45k purchase!

azinman2 6y ago
Why specifically? Don’t we want to support them in EVs? Btw it’s -9k with rebates. But I also leased as I anticipate it being uncompetitive in 3 years. Everyone has EVs coming so the tech and competition will mature quickly. This is a first gen car for VW.
- Drunk_Engineer 6y ago
  There is no obligation to "support" a for-profit corporation like some kind of charity. Certainly VW deserves no such charity. It is a recidivist emissions violator that has been caught doing defeat devices on multiple occasions. It treats customers with the same contempt as it does the EPA. It is good though that you got your vehicle on lease. If it is like my first-generation A4, everything will start to fall apart after 3 years.

pa7ch 6y ago

I wouldn't just say 250 vs 350 is a wash on trips . While the Y isn't better then ICE for road trips its way better then the VW for EV road trips

azinman2 6y ago
My point being that neither of which I want to take on a road trip. For that very rare occasion (for me), I’d rent an ICE.

random314 6y ago

A 350 mi range makes all the difference on a trip to Yosemite, Sacramento, Tahoe.

judge2020 6y ago

> And that's driving the car? Scary! The visualization happening there is more limited than what the car actually sees via the cameras, probably for performance reasons (it runs on a Intel Atom processor in the 3/Y) - you can see a more detailed representation on page 8 of https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/4E7BR9_TSLA_Q3_2020_Update_P0Q85U.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22TSLA-Q3-2020-Update.pdf%22#page=8 https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/4E7BR9_TSLA_Q3_2020_Updat... and you can see more from public personalities with access to the beta https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta

jryle70 6y ago

> With everyone coming online in the next couple years, Tesla is going to have very real competition. This is true, but BEV sales is currently only 3% or so of the total automobile market. There is so much room for growth. Tesla, VW, GM, and practically all major automakers pour money into BEV not to take a share in the 3% slice of the market. Tesla will remain the leader in the BEV in the foreseeable future even with more competition. Smaller slide likely, but of a much bigger pie.