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This is a very tricky presentation of the larger image. The document mentions the "Premium Sedan" category market, not the entire market. So looking at the Pre

This is a very tricky presentation of the larger image. The document mentions the "Premium Sedan" category market, not the entire market. So looking at the Premium Sedan market share in the US (which is arguably the most important market in the world) the numbers show a 1% decline in sales for 2020 - "The midsized car segment continues to lose share in the US car market in 2020. Sales were down 22% in an overall market down 14%. As a result the share of midsized cars drops by 1 percentage point to 10.2%, and in absolute numbers, the 1.5 million sales make this the lowest year of this millennium and long before it." - from https://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-analysis-2020-midsized-cars/ https://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-analysis-2020-midsized... So while the premium sedan category (including Tesla 3) is declining overall, Tesla is reporting to its shareholders the "great achievement" of winning that sales declining race.

nickik 5y ago
If the whole market declines but your share of the overall market raises and you overtake everybody else in that market that is clearly an achievement. Given that this is literally the first mass market car by Tesla, achieving leading sales globally over comparable products by BMW and Mercedes is clearly pretty important. And as they said, they hope Model Y will hopefully be the best selling vehicle globally next year. This is important to point out after 5 years of FUD about how Tesla has no demand.
- jocker12 5y ago
  Selling more of the less selling cars is not an achievement by any means. All the other companies are changing production towards different other categories, but the “achievement” Tesla wants their shareholders to be happy about is that they sell more of the cars less and less people are buying. If you sell more horses worldwide out of the “four legged category” it has no relevance as long as less and less people are buying horses for transportation.
  - linsomniac 5y ago
    I'm not sure one years data point makes for a trend. Especially not 2020. I have no data to back it up, but it seems likely that the people who can afford a luxury car are also the people that could afford to stay home during the pandemic. Personally, I'm finding it hard to justify a new car when I'm 6 months overdue for an oil change and not even at half the miles. :-)
    - mlyle 5y ago
      He's speaking of the movement from luxury sedans to luxury SUVs and crossovers.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - nickik 5y ago
    Just because sedans are not the biggest market anymore doesn't mean competition is over or that there is not still a gigantic amount of money in it. Tesla is of course also expecting to sell more CUV and Pickups in the future and we have seen the sales growth of the Model Y. Seriously making the argument that being the globally highest selling car in a well known very well specified category with their first ever turley mass produced car after just a few years of production is not an achievement is just insane argument.
- soheil 5y ago
  Even Ford stopped making the Mustang sedan. There is a move to SUVs across the auto industry. I'm not sure if winning a rapidly shrinking segment is as much of an accomplishment as Tesla wants investors to believe.
  - schwank 5y ago
    That's not accurate in any form. The Mustang was not a sedan, but a coupe, and Ford has not stopped making the Mustang in the current form. You can still order a GT500 with 12mpg city. They added an electric version, the Mach-E, which is more of a crossover format.
    - yaomtc 5y ago
      I wouldn't call that a version, the Mustang Mach-E is a different product line. Just shares the branding and takes some design cues. It's like an adopted son who gets dressed up like the father, but has different genes
- xkjkls 5y ago
  > And as they said, they hope Model Y will hopefully be the best selling vehicle globally next year. It's very important to wonder "how much of this is EV demand" vs "how much of this is car specific demand". Tesla's Model 3 sales basically declined in lockstep with Model Y's rise: https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/15/tesla-model-3-model-y-other-ev-top-car-sales-in-usa-charts/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/15/tesla-model-3-model-y-o... It will be interesting to see if Tesla can grow them simultaneously going forward, but it hasn't really seemed to be the case. This doesn't make me bullish on any prediction that the Model Y is going to be the best selling vehicle globally.
spoonjim 5y ago
A company founded in 2003 on an entirely different concept of automobile propulsion has taken the lead in a multi hundred billion dollar market. Hell yes that’s an achievement and it doesn’t need scare quotes.
- jocker12 5y ago
  "has taken the lead" Has taken the lead on the "premium sedan" category market, where less and less people are buying "premium sedans". What scare quotes?
  - judge2020 5y ago
    taking the lead on a declining market (while producing more cars overall) is impressive, assuming that market isn't due to be completely wiped out.
  - jryle70 5y ago
    Let me rephrase it as "Premium sedan segment would be in free fall if not for Tesla Model 3, a car that didn't exist 4 years ago". People flock to Model 3 despite it being in a less trending segment. They could have got a SUV instead, but they didn't. Sound impressive to me.
ajross 5y ago
It seems that in trying to debunk marketing spin you've deployed even worse spin of your own: > the premium sedan category (including Tesla 3) is declining overall Uh... wat? Model 3 sales are growing very rapidly! Trying to argue that they aren't because the category they are being compared to is not is... somewhat weird. I mean, look. The M3 is now selling more cars than Mercedes or BMW do in the same price segment. That's... pretty impressive, isn't it? I don't think that's spin, the E Class and 3 Series are very successful cars. They seem like a pretty good benchmark. But yes: it's true that people bought fewer of them during the pandemic. It's also not very surprising, nor very informative about Tesla, who sold far more cars in 2020 than 2019.
- jocker12 5y ago
  "is... somewhat weird." No, it's not. If you sell more horses worldwide out of the “four legged category” it has no relevance as long as less and less people are buying horses for transportation.
  - ajross 5y ago
    I repeat the more focused point: you don't find it impressive that a car from a manufacturer that was barely on the map five years ago is now beating the Mercedes E Class (edit: C class, sorry) in its own price category? I mean, by your logic if Tesla isn't impressive for what the Model 3 is doing then Daimler Chrysler must be a flaming disaster, right?
    - jocker12 5y ago
      Look at their statement and realize how Tesla is intentionally misleading their shareholders. If Tesla is so impressive, why do they need to do that?
      - ajross 5y ago
        What incorrect idea do you think shareholders may have taken away that is any worse than "Model 3 sales are shrinking" that you tried to imply above?

nickik 5y ago

If the whole market declines but your share of the overall market raises and you overtake everybody else in that market that is clearly an achievement. Given that this is literally the first mass market car by Tesla, achieving leading sales globally over comparable products by BMW and Mercedes is clearly pretty important. And as they said, they hope Model Y will hopefully be the best selling vehicle globally next year. This is important to point out after 5 years of FUD about how Tesla has no demand.

jocker12 5y ago
Selling more of the less selling cars is not an achievement by any means. All the other companies are changing production towards different other categories, but the “achievement” Tesla wants their shareholders to be happy about is that they sell more of the cars less and less people are buying. If you sell more horses worldwide out of the “four legged category” it has no relevance as long as less and less people are buying horses for transportation.
- linsomniac 5y ago
  I'm not sure one years data point makes for a trend. Especially not 2020. I have no data to back it up, but it seems likely that the people who can afford a luxury car are also the people that could afford to stay home during the pandemic. Personally, I'm finding it hard to justify a new car when I'm 6 months overdue for an oil change and not even at half the miles. :-)
  - mlyle 5y ago
    He's speaking of the movement from luxury sedans to luxury SUVs and crossovers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nickik 5y ago
  Just because sedans are not the biggest market anymore doesn't mean competition is over or that there is not still a gigantic amount of money in it. Tesla is of course also expecting to sell more CUV and Pickups in the future and we have seen the sales growth of the Model Y. Seriously making the argument that being the globally highest selling car in a well known very well specified category with their first ever turley mass produced car after just a few years of production is not an achievement is just insane argument.
soheil 5y ago
Even Ford stopped making the Mustang sedan. There is a move to SUVs across the auto industry. I'm not sure if winning a rapidly shrinking segment is as much of an accomplishment as Tesla wants investors to believe.
- schwank 5y ago
  That's not accurate in any form. The Mustang was not a sedan, but a coupe, and Ford has not stopped making the Mustang in the current form. You can still order a GT500 with 12mpg city. They added an electric version, the Mach-E, which is more of a crossover format.
  - yaomtc 5y ago
    I wouldn't call that a version, the Mustang Mach-E is a different product line. Just shares the branding and takes some design cues. It's like an adopted son who gets dressed up like the father, but has different genes
xkjkls 5y ago
> And as they said, they hope Model Y will hopefully be the best selling vehicle globally next year. It's very important to wonder "how much of this is EV demand" vs "how much of this is car specific demand". Tesla's Model 3 sales basically declined in lockstep with Model Y's rise: https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/15/tesla-model-3-model-y-other-ev-top-car-sales-in-usa-charts/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/15/tesla-model-3-model-y-o... It will be interesting to see if Tesla can grow them simultaneously going forward, but it hasn't really seemed to be the case. This doesn't make me bullish on any prediction that the Model Y is going to be the best selling vehicle globally.

spoonjim 5y ago

A company founded in 2003 on an entirely different concept of automobile propulsion has taken the lead in a multi hundred billion dollar market. Hell yes that’s an achievement and it doesn’t need scare quotes.

jocker12 5y ago
"has taken the lead" Has taken the lead on the "premium sedan" category market, where less and less people are buying "premium sedans". What scare quotes?
- judge2020 5y ago
  taking the lead on a declining market (while producing more cars overall) is impressive, assuming that market isn't due to be completely wiped out.
- jryle70 5y ago
  Let me rephrase it as "Premium sedan segment would be in free fall if not for Tesla Model 3, a car that didn't exist 4 years ago". People flock to Model 3 despite it being in a less trending segment. They could have got a SUV instead, but they didn't. Sound impressive to me.

ajross 5y ago

It seems that in trying to debunk marketing spin you've deployed even worse spin of your own: > the premium sedan category (including Tesla 3) is declining overall Uh... wat? Model 3 sales are growing very rapidly! Trying to argue that they aren't because the category they are being compared to is not is... somewhat weird. I mean, look. The M3 is now selling more cars than Mercedes or BMW do in the same price segment. That's... pretty impressive, isn't it? I don't think that's spin, the E Class and 3 Series are very successful cars. They seem like a pretty good benchmark. But yes: it's true that people bought fewer of them during the pandemic. It's also not very surprising, nor very informative about Tesla, who sold far more cars in 2020 than 2019.

jocker12 5y ago
"is... somewhat weird." No, it's not. If you sell more horses worldwide out of the “four legged category” it has no relevance as long as less and less people are buying horses for transportation.
- ajross 5y ago
  I repeat the more focused point: you don't find it impressive that a car from a manufacturer that was barely on the map five years ago is now beating the Mercedes E Class (edit: C class, sorry) in its own price category? I mean, by your logic if Tesla isn't impressive for what the Model 3 is doing then Daimler Chrysler must be a flaming disaster, right?
  - jocker12 5y ago
    Look at their statement and realize how Tesla is intentionally misleading their shareholders. If Tesla is so impressive, why do they need to do that?
    - ajross 5y ago
      What incorrect idea do you think shareholders may have taken away that is any worse than "Model 3 sales are shrinking" that you tried to imply above?