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Twitter is blocking tweets that criticize the Indian government
- vmception 5y agoDecriminalized = not illegal and not regulated Social media platforms operate in that range, which is another similarity to drugs aside from calling their users “users”
- wtmt 5y agoNote that these tweets are only hidden for anyone in India (not removed from Twitter) since these do not violate Twitter’s terms but are being forced off the platform by a government order. I wish Twitter would put up a better fight on this, but Twitter, WhatsApp and Facebook have been on the receiving end of criticism and threats by the central government, and it looks like Twitter chooses its battles to ensure its own survival first. What else can we expect from social networks anyway?
- drawkbox 5y agoThe information being blocked down the memory hole is just for the people that need to see that information. Concentration in the tech world to so few platforms is helping build that memory hole capability. At least people outside can see that information, not ideal though. If we had more platforms and less concentration it would be harder to build these walls.
- 29athrowaway 5y agoAlternatively, they can fight, be banned from India, and then have to compete against Indian Twitter 5 years from now in the international arena.
- KMag 5y agoI'm not familiar with Indian law, but would it be legal for them to be more transparent by replacing the offending tweets with "This message has been hidden in India by order of the Indian government"? On the other hand, my understanding is that Twitter did self-report these actions to Harvard, so they should be given some credit.
- fossuser 5y agoWe should expect better: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html This is a disappointing outcome of our community (software engineers, hackers, builders) and our technology - the web as we've built it. The promise of decentralized communications empowering people. We should expect more, those in a position to do the right thing at Twitter should try to do so. I hope long term something like urbit wins out and actually empowers its users. What's the point of being a free western country if the people that need the support most are the most ignored?
- nine_k 5y agoYou can only empower people against their government's desire to a certain limit. The more powerful is the government, the quicker it is at slapping your hand, and the more efficient it is at it. If you operate in a country, you normally can't avoid the limitations of the country's laws, no matter how nonsensical you might find these laws. Technology does not change this equation materially, given strong enough law enforcement.
- throwawaysea 5y ago> What's the point of being a free western country if the people that need the support most are the most ignored? Unfortunately enlightenment / classically liberal values (different from leftist liberal values) have been on the decline in the US, particularly with younger generations. Free speech is one of those values under attack. Even the ACLU, under different leadership than in the past, is wavering on free speech (https://reason.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speech/ https://reason.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speech/). James Kirchick spoke at length about this unfortunate evolution in a recent podcast (https://quillette.com/2021/04/09/podcast-144-james-kirchick-on-the-disintegration-of-the-aclu/ https://quillette.com/2021/04/09/podcast-144-james-kirchick-...). The West (as nations, corporations, citizens, etc) is not in a position to proselytize on this front any longer. Although the US government is bound by the first amendment, we have effectively outsourced our right to free speech over to private monopolies that aggressively censor views that don’t fit progressive perspectives. Biden even recently said that no constitutional amendment is absolute, which seems like further normalization of erosion of fundamental rights. With the floodgate of censorship already being opened in the West, it seems there is no one on the side of unfettered speech and intellectual freedom today. At the same time I understand why other nations are wary of both the power vested in social media and the influence of savvy or highly active participants therein. It’s a risk for local culture, politics, and stability to be undermined through that channel. Even European nations are increasingly skeptical of outside influences corrupting their sovereignty (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threa...).
- aravindet 5y agoCorrect, I do not think it is realistic to expect Twitter to behave differently. I do not believe it's Twitter's behavior that the original article is trying to highlight.
- duskwuff 5y ago> I wish Twitter would put up a better fight on this India banned TikTok last year after the app was determined to be "prejudicial to sovereignty and integrity of India, defence of India, security of state and public order". Twitter doesn't want to be next.
- fossuser 5y agoTikTok's ban is different (and arguably reasonable). The way TikTok manipulates its feed to serve the CCP's interests and influence public sentiment in the country is a threat. Things like downplaying the CCP's invasion of HK. https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/ https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/ That's basically the opposite of what's happening here. TikTok's threat is foreign government manipulation of the public and the block is blocking that government manipulation. Here if Twitter got blocked it'd be because they refused to implement the government manipulation - it's a difference in kind.
- radiator 5y agoBut from the point of view of the Indian government, those two "opposite" things are the same.
- op03 5y agoAll this is built on the terrible assumption that Social Media is critical to solving complex problems of society. All they do is dump waste amounts of shit on the plates of decision makers and then crucify them for problems no one can solve or have capacities to solve only badly. People think this is a great way to take out buffons like Modi or Trump. But the truth is such systems will take out anyone propped up especially dealing with complex problems.
- smt88 5y agoI don't think social media is inherently bad. It's just easy to weaponize it given enough resources. If people continue to believe that public posts on Twitter and Facebook accurately reflect reality, and it's possible for governments to silently (or not silently!) censor those platforms, then social media becomes an incredibly effective tool for propaganda. My personal solution is not to use any public social medium (places where I consume posts from anonymous strangers) except HN. Unfortunately that solution can't scale.
- op03 5y agoIts lose-lose for everyone working on complex stuff. Leaders of all stripes will lose no matter what position they take on anything Complex, as social media enables the mob to immediately point out flaws and crucify them. No one can lead in those conditions. Only the crazy or totally stupid will end up getting propped into leadership roles.
- paxys 5y agoHow is Twitter going to fight exactly? They can be banned nationwide (and local employees can face charges) with one order from the central government, and no court can help them. Same happened to TikTok last year.
- hesarenu 5y agoSo how i can view it to see if those are what the govt claims?
- captn3m0 5y agoTwitter fought a court battle on this in India just a few months ago[a], [b]. The government even threatened Twitter Execs with jail time[0], [1]. Making this worse are the new Information Technology (Intermediary Guidelines and Digital Media Ethics Code) Rules, 2021 (the “Intermediary Rules”)[3]. Among the many issues, they increase obligations on large social media platforms (above 5e5 users), enforce government takedowns within 36 hours, enable mandatory social media verification, enforce algorithmic (AI-driven) censorship and change intermediary liability to criminal. IFF has gotten one victory against these in court[2], but there's a long way to go. [0]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-threatens-twitter-with-penalties-if-it-doesnt-block-accounts-11612364787 https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-threatens-twitter-with-pe... [1]: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/india-threatens-twitter-jail https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/india-threa... [a]: https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/01/twitter-restricts-over-a-dozen-high-profile-accounts-in-india-following-legal-demand/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/01/twitter-restricts-over-a-d... [b]: https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/03/india-sends-warning-to-twitter-over-lifting-block-on-accounts-and-noncompliance-of-order/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/03/india-sends-warning-to-twi... [3]: https://internetfreedom.in/intermediaries-rules-2021/ https://internetfreedom.in/intermediaries-rules-2021/ [2]: https://internetfreedom.in/kerala-hc-grants-a-stay-of-the-operation-of-part-iii-of-the-intermediaries-rules-2021-to-livelaw/ https://internetfreedom.in/kerala-hc-grants-a-stay-of-the-op...
- LittlePeter 5y agowhy would you abbreviate 500000 as 5e5 and not say 500K or 500,000?
- erik_seaberg 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakh is an Indian unit. They write five lakh where I'd write half a million.
- captn3m0 5y agoYup, the number in my head was 5 lakh and it doesn't occur to me to write it as 0.5M. I've been forcing myself to remember lakh=1e5,crore=1e7,million=1e6 while doing calculations these days, so just happened to write it that way.
- galtwho 5y agoFew of the tweets removed are detailed here https://www.opindia.com/2021/04/covid-pandemic-hoax-to-sharing-unrelated-image-of-burning-pyres-panic-monger-tweets-govt-of-india-removed/ https://www.opindia.com/2021/04/covid-pandemic-hoax-to-shari... Ps : the usual propaganda site or govt mouthpiece claims are bound to come out now. Read the article and make up your mind
- connectsnk 5y agoThis is the only unbiased comment which actually shows the tweets which were deleted instead of just presenting a conclusion
- aravindet 5y agoIncorrect, the original submission (thewire.in) reproduces several of the tweets. Medianama, which covered this yesterday, chooses to _paraphrase_ the blocked tweets rather than quote them outright, likely in an attempt to avoid censorship demands. https://www.medianama.com/2021/04/223-twitter-mp-minister-censor/ https://www.medianama.com/2021/04/223-twitter-mp-minister-ce...
- aravindet 5y agoI was wrong, it looks like thewire.in has gated those screenshots to not be visible from Indian IP addresses. > A screenshot of the tweet, which now cannot be viewed within India, can be found below.
- aravindet 5y agoOpindia is a well-known source of right-wing disinformation. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia > OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news portal founded in 2014 by Rahul Raj and Kumar Kamal. The website has published fake news and anti-Muslim commentary on multiple occasions, including a 2020 incident in which it falsely claimed that a Hindu boy was sacrificed in a Bihar mosque. > OpIndia is dedicated to criticism of what it considers "liberal media", and to support of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Hindutva ideology. According to University of Maryland researchers, OpIndia has shamed journalists it deems opposed to the BJP, and has alleged media bias against Hindus and the BJP. In 2019, the International Fact-Checking Network (IFCN) rejected OpIndia's application to be certified as a fact checker. IFCN-certified fact checkers identified 25 fake news stories and 14 misreported stories published by OpIndia from January 2018 to June 2020. The submitted URL from the wire.in has screenshots of the more significant tweets that were hidden in India despite not violating Twitter policies regarding disinformation.
- ferros 5y agoHave there been any other known cases of similar action around the world?
- colordrops 5y agoBanning certain tweets related to the Hunter Biden scandal.
- faithdefender 5y agoWell said
- cigaser 5y agoPSSST, it never existed!
- nemothekid 5y agoDid the Hunter Biden story ever have any legs? As far as I can tell: 1. A grown man, who was not running for president, was doing drugs. 2. He was hired by company to try and gain favor with the White House, which backfired when the White House decided to act against their interest anyways (in other words the guy running for vice president didn't give the company a sweetheart deal because his son was on the board). Why do people try so hard to force this story?
- esperent 5y agoIf true it would further a false narrative that they want to push.
- ttt0 5y agoWhy did people try so hard to censor this story?
- colinmhayes 5y agoBecause people are idiots and would be swayed by hannity sound bites even though the story has nothing to do with Joe?
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y agoIndia is actually a democracy. For better or worse, I think India has the right to determine censorship policies for its citizens. Foreign Western corporations deciding that they know better than the Indian government and using their platform to spread dissent against the elected government is not a good look for a Western corporation given the history of British East India company.
- westmeal 5y agoHow is it possible to have a democracy while censoring what your citizens can see?
- ttt0 5y agoAccording to some in the West, censorship is actually "saving democracy".
- ulfw 5y agoWow what a load of crap. So a democracy in your mind can do anything they want because reasons and oh let's bring up the ugly west and colonial times too for good measure...
- reallymental 5y agoYeah I think "democracy" means the exact opposite of what you've said there. The people have asked for free speech, not censorship. And dragging the British East India Company into every argument about India sheds more light into the inadequacy of us Indians to move past it. We're supposed to be healing ourselves by constructively criticizing our behavior towards others and ourselves...not by endlessly blaming the past for our current actions. Disclaimer: I am Indian.
- gregjor 5y agoDemocracy and free speech do not necessarily go together. Democracy is a system of government “by the people,” usually in the form of voting for representatives. Censorship and free speech do not necessarily follow from that political system, being more in the realm of basic human rights. Around the world democracy takes many forms. So do cultural and political notions of free speech, and government’s role regulating and censoring speech. If the majority of Indian people want free speech, but their government does not honor that, then their democracy is dysfunctional and unrepresentative in that regard. A majority of Americans support stricter gun control, but our government does not honor that, so American democracy has its own dysfunctions.
- cigaser 5y agoIt is 2021, we should have decentralised authenticated version of text board by now. All the bs about crypto disruption, but nothing for such simple case.
- pezo1919 5y agowww.manyver.se
- db48x 5y agoYou can run your own software on your own server easily enough. Even easier to run the software of your choice on a rented server. Why do you think that you’re stuck with twitter?
- nsood 5y agoUnmoderated social media (which I'm guessing is your goal with decentralization) tends to accumulate people who have been kicked off all moderated social media - see stuff like Parler, Ruqqus, etc. I don't think removing all ability for moderation is a good idea, more of a balance is necessary.
- jansan 5y agoOf course they do, they are willing servants of the governments. They also do not permit retweeting or liking a tweet by Martin Kulldorff because he states his scientific opinion that not everybody has to be vaccinated. https://twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/1371638485686358018 https://twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/13716384856863580...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- berryjerry 5y agoTwitter will ban the American President but is afraid not to listen to the Indian government. I guess they choose what political parties they want to support.
- esperent 5y agoTwitter waited until a couple of days before the president left office to do that, after waiting through years of flagrant rule violation, and until they were extremely certain of the way public opinion had swung. That was no act of courage from them, it was purely to try and manage public opinion.
- berryjerry 5y agoNo they banned him from posting while he was still in office.
- blackoil 5y agoThere is a difference in individual vs a government legal order.
- sharatvir 5y agoTwitter banned an individual Account for violating their policy. Not quite the same as a government forcing them to block tweets.
- ergocoder 5y agoWell.... Twitter can delete or ban anything they want. They are a private company. We did it before with Trump, and we used this exact reason. Case closed.
- duskwuff 5y agoThe headline is rather misleading when read on its own. Twitter didn't choose to block these tweets of its own accord; it did so in response to an order from the government of India.
- timeslip1523 5y agoTwitter's a private company, it can choose to comply with whatever power complex it wants; be that the american media or the indian government.
- blackoil 5y agoSituation in India is far grim than Official no. portray. Many district report only <5 Covid deaths adding to the normal death rate of 50-100. But, when you go to cremation grounds they are overflowing, platforms to burn the dead a full and bodies are being burned at sides, footpath.
- logicuce 5y agoUnfortunately, it is hard to get those numbers correctly. COVID patients die because of multiple organ failure and unless the deceased was already tested and verified for it, you can't attribute the death to COVID officially. A lot of people pass away without showing visible symptoms or without realizing they need immediate medical attention for COVID. It would be good to have that attribution and that will require testing the deceased, but given the load on the system, everybody can extrapolate the scale and act accordingly.
- asiachick 5y agoCan't you just compare the average death rate to the current death rate? Unfortunately this site has no data for India https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid#excess-mortality-using-raw-death-counts https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid#excess-mor...
- logicuce 5y agoExactly the point I am making. You can do the analysis and determine the scale but you can't change the official COVID numbers. In fact, that is even the link you shared shows. It compared the overall death rate with the official COVID numbers and proved the numbers are conservative, in US. Of course.
- bishnu 5y agoThe NYT did a deep dive in an Indian city using this methodology: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavirus-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavi... The figures are orders of magnitudes greater than what's reported.
- throwawaysea 5y agoThe framing of the blocked tweets as ones that criticized the government seems false to me thus far. From what I read only a small number (~50) tweets were removed, ostensibly for inciting violence or panic, via misinformation. The example messages I saw in some articles included fake images from unrelated situations and things of that sort. This seems like what is typically considered reasonable removal of misinformation, but has been framed as censorship by news media. This doesn’t make sense to me as an outsider, since clearly there are millions of tweets happening and a very small number were blocked - if censorship were the goal a much larger number of messages and accounts would need to be blocked. So then this makes me question why there is so much outrage about this action. Those spinning up this outrage are likely ideologically opposed to the current ruling party in India, and are making an effort to undermine them politically. What has followed, like clockwork, is Western leftist news media and social media amplifying this messaging as much as possible. This is in keeping with the anti-India / Hinduphobic attacks we see regularly here in America in articles criticizing Modi or “news” segments run by outrage dealers like John Oliver. As a related aside: it’s amazing to see all the American based news sites (Vox, TechCrunch, etc) run this story when they also regularly express support of tech companies practicing censorship per Silicon Valley political biases. Hell, a sitting US legislator (AOC) called for Parler to be kicked off the Apple and Google app stores (a violation of the first amendment), and many here on Hacker News cheered it on, under dubious claims that Trump incited violence even though Twitter’s own blog post on Trump’s permanent ban did not prove anything of the sort (https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspensio...). Clearly a double standard is being exercised between America and India. To be clear I do not support censorship personally. I am for something closer to absolute free speech and letting people figure out what they want to trust and distrust, rather than ceding control to EITHER governments or massive multinational tech corporations. But the hypocrisy here is astounding. When I see manufactured stories like this, I can’t help but think back to what Macron and his government warned about when they discussed the danger of American social media and the “intellectual matrix” coming out of the US (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threa...).
- Leary 5y agoCan anyone comment on the legality of these orders. Are they codified or arbitrary
- vishnugupta 5y agoI could find out but let me just say it’s all moot because at this point almost every public institution is sleeping with the government. Any semblance of independent or counterbalancing institution disappeared long ago. CBI (FBI equivalent), news, courts, election commission, police etc all take direct orders from the central government and don’t operate independently. They are tools to be used whichever way the government pleases. Some of them were on the path of losing independence. The present government just accelerated the process since they were democratically elected twice in succession by stupendous majority. So what’s left now for people to raise their voice are these private social media platforms. Ironically Twitter is perhaps the most independent channel in India now.
- throwawaysea 5y agoSomeone in India can perhaps shed more light but from what I read it is legal because the misinformation in the blocked tweets can be considered to be disturbing the tranquility by inducing panic (https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/nrc-protests-caa-protests-india-protests-protesters-arrested-section-153-section-505-1630436-2019-12-22 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/nrc-protests-caa-prote...). It seems somewhat like the “yelling fire in a crowded theater” situation, although I understand in the US that ruling was clarified later to be more nuanced.
- mrtksn 5y agoThe expectation that a corporation operating in India will not obey Indian laws but American ones is appalling. EU, Canada, China, Turkey or North Korea - if you want to do business there you have to respect their laws. “For profit US corporation fighting foreign government atrocities” is a deeply flawed idea. If Indians believe that they need wider free speech rights or other protections, they need to change their political figures and laws accordingly. It’s unreasonable to expect that a foreign corporation will do that for them, it even might be the case that they(the locals) don’t want it. Imagine the other way around, Italian company selling Kinder Surprise Eggs in US, Swiss company doing banking by the Swiss laws in US, Malta company running gambling in the US by the Maltese laws. Would they be considered fighting the unreasonable food regulations, toppling the oppressive financial laws or pushing against tyrannical gambling laws of the US? I don’t think so.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- alkonaut 5y agoMy expectation isn't that a US tech company would break local law. It's that it would get out of market where it would otherwise be forced to do things that doesn't agree with some fundamental values of the company.
- vmception 5y ago> some fundamental values of the company they do you just misinterpreted what the fundamental values were
- jamnik 5y agoIn US they censor right. In India they censor left. In Third Reich they would have censored Hitler critics. On which morał grounds they think they can censor exactly. Who do they think that they are?
- alkonaut 5y agoMy second expectation is that I expect companies not to have "deliver maximum value to its shareholders" as its fundamental value or guiding principle (Unsure if that's what you were alluding to here). That is: I basically expect companies to leave huge amounts of (their investors') money on the table when it goes against the ethical/moral compass of a vocal minority of its users, owners, or employees.
- reactspa 5y agoWestern mainstream media loves it when Twitter censors conservatives, even the president of the USA. But Western mainstream media doesn't like it when a third world govt tries to suppress fake narratives that could lead to unmanageable civic chaos. Double standards I suppose.
- acd10j 5y agoIndia is turning gradually authoritarian following Russia and china, with west turning blind eye, USA had their own problems in trump and right wing, No longer it has wiggle room or leverage to prevent this trend.
- hntroll666 5y agoUS had its own problems? The authoritarians won in the US, and are now taking steps to ensure that they'll never be out of power again.
- kumarm 5y agoI think there is far bigger issue than censorship here. Significant portion of Indians already think there is big conspiracy behind Covid19 and everyone (Media, Governments, Healthcare professions, Big businesses, Pharma) is it to "$Insert your conspiracy here". Now they see tweets being deleted just for being critical on government handling of issue. Doesn't that add fuel to conspiracy theories?
- hntroll666 5y agoAre you under the impression that there isn't a conspiracy related to the virus? Did Klaus Schwab say "The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world"? Did the WEF say "To build back better, we must reinvent capitalism"? Did Justin Trudeau say "this pandemic has provided an opportunity for a reset"? Did he repeat the words "build back better" and express support for such an effort? Did Biden and Harris say anything about that? Did Greta Thunberg? Did Cuomo? Did Pelosi? Did both Clintons? Elizabeth Warren? What about Johnson in the UK, did he ever express support for "building back better"? Jacinda Ardern? The answer, of course, is that they all did, and far more rich influential bigwigs besides those. Do you suppose that they all simultaneously arrived at that wording independently? Maybe you'd prefer it if we called it a "complex" theory? As in, the government wants more powers, the media wants endless crises to report on, the pharmaceutical companies want guaranteed income and protection from liability, leftists want to make sweeping changes to society and the economy according to their ideas about how the world really "ought" to work, etc.
- ttt0 5y agoGreta Thunberg tweeted by accident some kind of internal memo with their talking points, so there is that. The reality is that all these powerful people know each other, go to parties with one another, are a part of same organizations like Bilderberg or WEF, and share memos with what are they supposed to say to the public. It's not coincidental and saying that it is is pure gaslighting.
- hesarenu 5y agoMost of the cases are asymptotic. Mild symptons are similar to seasonal fever. Obviously this would make them think its a conspiracy to make money for hospitals. The situation on ground would vary from cities. Not every city is like Delhi. My small city(compared to other bigwigs in India) as of now has no issues. Health worker said Govt bed are 50% filled. I don't see people outside Govt or Pvt hospitals. But in Bangalore any huge spike(this is huge compared at last Oct peak) would be a very big concern.
- villgax 5y agoIt is not the governments duty to maintain an image, citizens or foreign parties are always free to criticise or praise any government. If the government feels something is factually wrong then it can present statements from its press agency but not suppress criticism. This is the difference between an authoritative regime & a democracy. Whenever we are done with dealing with the pandemic who ever is responsible for giving these orders needs to be trialed.
- gregjor 5y agoIn too many countries citizens are not free to criticize their government. Foreigners can get into trouble too if they criticize while in the country. Thailand, for example, has strict laws about criticizing the monarchy. Some of us take our right to freely criticize our government without penalty for granted and imagine it applies everywhere, but that isn’t the case.
- villgax 5y agoExactly, countries need to come clean & mention how would they treat non-citizens whether physically present or digitally participating
- gregjor 5y agoIf you visit a foreign country you need to learn about the laws that may affect you. Plenty of sources for that — travel guide books, State Dept. web site. As for digitally participating, you probably can’t face prosecution outside the country, but if you visit later you might get arrested. Violating Thailand’s lese majeste laws is not a crime outside of Thailand, for example, but you can be held responsible for social media posts if you come under Thai jurisdiction.
- colinmhayes 5y agoThe vast majority of Indians approve of Modi's premiership. Everyone is aware that it's an authoritarian regime, they don't mind. He has complete control over the courts, so I don't see how a trial could accomplish anything other than further cement his regime.
- 0xmohit 5y agoThe government believes that hiding data is the answer to the problem. > “It’s a complete massacre of data,” said Bhramar Mukherjee, an epidemiologist at the University of Michigan who has been following India closely. “From all the modeling we’ve done, we believe the true number of deaths is two to five times what is being reported.” [0] A related comment [1] on censorship in India. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavirus-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavi... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26928462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26928462
- zaszrespawned 5y agoWhile this is your opinion, the pictures & words used in those tweets are not DATA either.. words like DEATH BODIES, and images of FIRE sound like social media at its best /s :)
- mohanmcgeek 5y agoOr maybe their model is wrong. To say that reality is wrong when the reality doesn't match somebody's model is peak absurdity
- 0xmohit 5y agoSeems pretty likely that the model underestimates the causalities. https://twitter.com/ARUNSHARMAJI/status/1385439504136237067 https://twitter.com/ARUNSHARMAJI/status/1385439504136237067 https://twitter.com/ahmermkhan/status/1386614534748590083 https://twitter.com/ahmermkhan/status/1386614534748590083 https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1386357371652526082 https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1386357371652526082
- pknerd 5y agoTwitter India is on payroll of Indian govt. It's not a hidden secret.
- manub22 5y agoMost of these type of tweets are just hoax and showing negative image of India, the PM, and the whole Corona Pandemic. Most of the images shows were from old incidents and programs, like the Kumbh mela pics. Thus most of these tweets are removed my the owners themselves either by uproar from followers, public or the government, what's wrong in that? People should not be using twitter for spreading lies, create panic among citizens and false news. And specially "The Wire" who has posted this news and is famous in spreading anti-govt news all the time !!!
- zaszrespawned 5y agoagreed. Just look at the words.. DEATH BODIES, FIRE images
- CommanderData 5y agoThe comments here read like most other threads on the Internet. Heavy defence of censorship. Its a bit like China. When the concept "face" is being compromised, its vital to cover up the issue then to actually deal with the problem.
- benque 5y agoStory of most countries in the East. We would rather claim that there is no problem rather than accept, analyze, and possibly come up with solutions.
- known 5y agoBigots are not qualified to rule/govern a culturally/socioeconomically diverse country like India; They should be banned from contesting elections; Why should we let ~22 crore (voters to BJP) decide the fate of remaining ~66 crore voters?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hunter-2 5y agoIronically, looks like this very thread about censorship has been removed from the front page of HN.
- sinyug 5y agoThere is a very important fact that the Anglosphere (and the West in general) misses about India. We are a third world country where the State still has not acquired an absolute monopoly on violence. Most people do not trust that the cops will enforce the laws or that the courts will provide justice in time. Jurisprudence is all but non existent even at the highest levels and judgments depend on the whims and fancies of the judge/magistrate. This essentially results in a lot of disagreements being resolved in an extremely violent manner on the streets. Under Articles 19(1) and 19(2) of the Indian Constitution, an individual's right to free speech is not absolute.[1] Further, Indian courts have often toed the line and held that maintenance of public order overrides any individual's right to free expression. Political Twitter in India is primarily used by pro- and anti-Modi groups to abuse each other. Every photograph of a burning pyre and every apology from a media organization is another stick to beat the other with. Anti-Modi media might want to blame everything on the Kumbh and the elections, but this second wave has been noticeable since early/mid February and warnings were coming from states like Maharashtra, Punjab and Kerala. But the state and central governments didn't take these cases seriously till things got out of control. At one point, about 60+% of all new cases and deaths were coming from Maharashtra where there were no elections or Kumbh. Personally speaking, this censorship is immaterial in the Indian context. If these tweets lead to rioting on the streets and a few people are murdered, that is just another day in India. The only thing I know for sure is that the people who will die are not the ones who tweet. 1. https://indiankanoon.org/doc/1218090/ https://indiankanoon.org/doc/1218090/
- RickJWagner 5y agoTwitter has just been sued for defamation by James O'Keefe, who seeks to expose a lot of Twitter's internal decision-making criteria. It should prove interesting. https://www.legalreader.com/project-veritas-james-okeefe-sues-cnn-twitter-defamation/ https://www.legalreader.com/project-veritas-james-okeefe-sue...