7 ms·

The longer we wait to do rail right the more expensive it gets because of NIMBY-ism and property ownership. We need to do it now. Trains are slower in some cas

The longer we wait to do rail right the more expensive it gets because of NIMBY-ism and property ownership. We need to do it now. Trains are slower in some cases, but the views you simply cannot get from a plane or car. You can work on a train. You can get a private cab. You can get up and move around. You can go to the viewing car and see the beauty of America. You can't do any of that in a plane or car. It is traveling in a much better way, even if longer. Take the Southwest Chief from Flagstaff to Colorado routes and you'd be amazed at how pretty New Mexico is, the deserts of Arizona and the mountains in Colorado. Take any of the coastal lines. You will simply be blown away. The great thing about trains or infrastructure like fiber across America maybe, people will see govt/business in action. It will build platforms of market value that people can see, people in small towns, people all around. People need visuals just like clients need visuals to see progress, even though lots of the work is not visible maybe in code or other areas. The time to train is now. In a way it is the last chance to really get it going before everything is full. We have been robbed of amazing train rides and views. Take any of these routes/lines and tell me you don't enjoy the views. [1] Before you vote on anything related to trains, go take one on our underfunded Amtrak routes. It will change your mind if you are not for it. Imagine if we did this right. Trains use much less fuel, help make pricing for cars/planes competitive and more. Having a third major transportation option besides a bus is needed as we get more packed in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_routes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_routes

fho 5y ago
Second this ... I've been commuting for about 84 km each way each day for five years ... in Germany with the regional trains that took me about 1.5h (and only 40 minutes of that were actual train ride). In that time I would start to work (on the clock), just "sleep in" or work on hobby projects. In the same time a friend of mine in the bay area manages to travel 20 km to the office. As much as I hated commuting ... I'd take commuting by train over commuting by car every day.
brudgers 5y ago
A bus route can do all that and more. A car is even more flexible because you can stop, get out, and become part of the landscape.
- oumua_don17 5y ago
  Except for the driver. I am petrified of driving in a group at the serious risk of distracting the driver. And driverless car is very far off from reality. Till then trains it is for me.
  - brudgers 5y ago
    It's unfortunate that fears curtail your travel options. I have a close friend who has a similar experience. For me, driving the west has been life changing. I wish I could convince my friend to give it a go. They would get a lot out of it.
nradov 5y ago
The view from a train might be marginally nicer, but when I travel it's usually because I want to be somewhere else. Not because I want to sit for hours and watch the scenery go by.
- cromwellian 5y ago
  But do you want to spend 1hr getting to the airport, then waiting 2+ Hours to board the plane, wait for air traffic control, taxi, etc and then repeat on the other side? It takes five to six hours to go from SF to LA about the same as it takes to drive. A train would be far better.
  - plantain 5y ago
    It doesn't have to be like that to fly. Political decisions have made it like that.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      Yes there was a time where you could go to the airport, buy a ticket, and just walk on to the plane. You didn't need to spend hours going through ceremonial activity. And on the plane, you had confortable seats, you could get up and walk around, some airplanes even had a lounge in the back where you could get a drink and socialize. 9/11, and the fact that passengers will seemingly sacrifice all comfort to save a dollar on the fare ended all that.
      - cromwellian 5y ago
        I used to fly twice a month, SF<->DC, before 9/11, the seats in economy were not comfortable, and there were no lounges on domestic flights. Maybe in first class, but domestic first class usually is little more than slightly better seats. This is no way in comparison to train travel. There's no "dining car" on the train. There's no tables for business meetings. There's no 2 to 4 bathrooms per car. Sleeper rooms are much cheaper and accessible than on planes, but sure, you can pay a multiple of $10k for a room on beyond-first-class international flights. But even if I granted you that in the old days, you could show up 30 minutes before the flight, walk pretty much straight to the gate, you're still ignoring much more time spent getting to the airport, and time spent waiting for takeoff and baggage loading/unloading. Major airports are generally located outside cities and near water if possible, train stations are usually located in the heart of the metro area. Sure, there are exceptions like Las Vegas, but in general, most people have to spent 45mins-1hr just getting to the airport in the US. No one's saying you should use train travel for DC to SF. But come on, NYC to DC, or SF to LA is a no-fucking brainer. When you drive from SF to LA, most of Route-5 is straight land on wild open, flat prairie, and the main difficulty is when you hit the mountain range past Bakersfield, which every advanced country, be it the French, Swiss, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, already deal with, on far more harsh terrain. There's zero excuse for the opposition to high speed rail for regional intercity, except for a stubborn, weirdly political opposition to trains, which George Will kind of outlined (accidentally) in a piece attacking trains as "socialist" but somehow air travel as "non-socialist" despite the fact that the Feds and States have funded aviation infrastructure to the tune of hundreds of billions over the decades.
pc86 5y ago
How is property ownership standing in the way of US rail?
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Railroads (particularly high speed) need to be long and straight. What happens if people don't want a dozen trains roaring through their neighborhood every day? It's difficult to just go around it. What happens if people don't want a railroad through their property at all? After all, once a railroad is sitting on your land, it's difficult to repurpose it for much else. The state can try eminent domain, but that takes time and lengthy court cases, and the costs add up quick.
- brudgers 5y ago
  The best routes already have railroads. Their right of ways are in private hands. To put it in perspective, the only all season transcontinental route is the southern most line on the article’s map. It only exists by virtue of the Gadsden Purchase in 1854. The right of way is controlled by the corporate successors of the Southern Pacific. The non-existence of viable alternative all season grades across the west is why the Gadsden Purchase happened. The US had assumed surely such routes existed in Alta California following its succession in 1848 via the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.
jdkee 5y ago
Driverless electric vehicles will decimate public transportation.
benatkin 5y ago
> Take the Southwest Chief from Flagstaff to Colorado routes and you'd be amazed at how pretty New Mexico is, the deserts of Arizona and the mountains in Colorado. I think it leaves Flagstaff really early in the morning - and it's not worth mentioning Flagstaff to LA or LA to Flagstaff because those trips are only scheduled for the middle of the night.
- drawkbox 5y ago
  When I took it, it was early morning Flagstaff (6AM) into Trinidad by later that day (5PM). Going through Navajo lands, then New Mexico, then Colorado coal areas and then beautiful mountains was amazing. It gives you lots of perspective. They could run them more with more routes and funding. On the way back to Flagstaff it was later so maybe they already have some additional times. It would be nice to see LA sections during the day. But that is another benefit really, you can sleep easier on a train than you can on a plane or car, especially with a private room/car.

fho 5y ago

Second this ... I've been commuting for about 84 km each way each day for five years ... in Germany with the regional trains that took me about 1.5h (and only 40 minutes of that were actual train ride). In that time I would start to work (on the clock), just "sleep in" or work on hobby projects. In the same time a friend of mine in the bay area manages to travel 20 km to the office. As much as I hated commuting ... I'd take commuting by train over commuting by car every day.

brudgers 5y ago

A bus route can do all that and more. A car is even more flexible because you can stop, get out, and become part of the landscape.

oumua_don17 5y ago
Except for the driver. I am petrified of driving in a group at the serious risk of distracting the driver. And driverless car is very far off from reality. Till then trains it is for me.
- brudgers 5y ago
  It's unfortunate that fears curtail your travel options. I have a close friend who has a similar experience. For me, driving the west has been life changing. I wish I could convince my friend to give it a go. They would get a lot out of it.

nradov 5y ago

The view from a train might be marginally nicer, but when I travel it's usually because I want to be somewhere else. Not because I want to sit for hours and watch the scenery go by.

cromwellian 5y ago
But do you want to spend 1hr getting to the airport, then waiting 2+ Hours to board the plane, wait for air traffic control, taxi, etc and then repeat on the other side? It takes five to six hours to go from SF to LA about the same as it takes to drive. A train would be far better.
- plantain 5y ago
  It doesn't have to be like that to fly. Political decisions have made it like that.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    Yes there was a time where you could go to the airport, buy a ticket, and just walk on to the plane. You didn't need to spend hours going through ceremonial activity. And on the plane, you had confortable seats, you could get up and walk around, some airplanes even had a lounge in the back where you could get a drink and socialize. 9/11, and the fact that passengers will seemingly sacrifice all comfort to save a dollar on the fare ended all that.
    - cromwellian 5y ago
      I used to fly twice a month, SF<->DC, before 9/11, the seats in economy were not comfortable, and there were no lounges on domestic flights. Maybe in first class, but domestic first class usually is little more than slightly better seats. This is no way in comparison to train travel. There's no "dining car" on the train. There's no tables for business meetings. There's no 2 to 4 bathrooms per car. Sleeper rooms are much cheaper and accessible than on planes, but sure, you can pay a multiple of $10k for a room on beyond-first-class international flights. But even if I granted you that in the old days, you could show up 30 minutes before the flight, walk pretty much straight to the gate, you're still ignoring much more time spent getting to the airport, and time spent waiting for takeoff and baggage loading/unloading. Major airports are generally located outside cities and near water if possible, train stations are usually located in the heart of the metro area. Sure, there are exceptions like Las Vegas, but in general, most people have to spent 45mins-1hr just getting to the airport in the US. No one's saying you should use train travel for DC to SF. But come on, NYC to DC, or SF to LA is a no-fucking brainer. When you drive from SF to LA, most of Route-5 is straight land on wild open, flat prairie, and the main difficulty is when you hit the mountain range past Bakersfield, which every advanced country, be it the French, Swiss, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, already deal with, on far more harsh terrain. There's zero excuse for the opposition to high speed rail for regional intercity, except for a stubborn, weirdly political opposition to trains, which George Will kind of outlined (accidentally) in a piece attacking trains as "socialist" but somehow air travel as "non-socialist" despite the fact that the Feds and States have funded aviation infrastructure to the tune of hundreds of billions over the decades.

pc86 5y ago

How is property ownership standing in the way of US rail?

missedthecue 5y ago
Railroads (particularly high speed) need to be long and straight. What happens if people don't want a dozen trains roaring through their neighborhood every day? It's difficult to just go around it. What happens if people don't want a railroad through their property at all? After all, once a railroad is sitting on your land, it's difficult to repurpose it for much else. The state can try eminent domain, but that takes time and lengthy court cases, and the costs add up quick.
brudgers 5y ago
The best routes already have railroads. Their right of ways are in private hands. To put it in perspective, the only all season transcontinental route is the southern most line on the article’s map. It only exists by virtue of the Gadsden Purchase in 1854. The right of way is controlled by the corporate successors of the Southern Pacific. The non-existence of viable alternative all season grades across the west is why the Gadsden Purchase happened. The US had assumed surely such routes existed in Alta California following its succession in 1848 via the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

jdkee 5y ago

Driverless electric vehicles will decimate public transportation.

benatkin 5y ago

> Take the Southwest Chief from Flagstaff to Colorado routes and you'd be amazed at how pretty New Mexico is, the deserts of Arizona and the mountains in Colorado. I think it leaves Flagstaff really early in the morning - and it's not worth mentioning Flagstaff to LA or LA to Flagstaff because those trips are only scheduled for the middle of the night.

drawkbox 5y ago
When I took it, it was early morning Flagstaff (6AM) into Trinidad by later that day (5PM). Going through Navajo lands, then New Mexico, then Colorado coal areas and then beautiful mountains was amazing. It gives you lots of perspective. They could run them more with more routes and funding. On the way back to Flagstaff it was later so maybe they already have some additional times. It would be nice to see LA sections during the day. But that is another benefit really, you can sleep easier on a train than you can on a plane or car, especially with a private room/car.