6 ms·

But ... but .... to the moon!!!!!??? Sorry, I've been over Tesla for a while now. Huge respect for the engineers, but their hypeman isn't doing them any favour

by LightG 5y ago

But ... but .... to the moon!!!!!??? Sorry, I've been over Tesla for a while now. Huge respect for the engineers, but their hypeman isn't doing them any favours at this stage in their lifecycle. Massive respect to the company for altering and accelerating the auto markets move to EV's but I wouldn't buy a Tesla just on brand alone. The Ioniq 5 is currently the top of my list and if I was in the market for a model S or X, I'd instead be looking at Lucid Air. I'm glad realistic alternatives are finally getting there. Not interested in FSD at all. I won't be using my car as a Robotaxi and I actually enjoy driving. Lane assist is enough for me. Anyway, n=1

estaseuropano 5y ago
I'm waiting for the VW.ID Buzz. Classic bus in modern & electric, due September 2022. Just seems like a fantasy come true. Although I'm afraid the final version is unlikely to look like the awesome concept car... Ioniq looks good but doesn't seem very roomy in the back, so kids+dog+luggage won't fit.
- WanderPanda 5y ago
  Yep I don’t get why they always build these fantastic concept cars but always dumb down the design for the release. Interestingly in some podcast Franz von Holzhausen (the guy responsible for Teslas design) mentioned that he was tired of always designing concept cars and never releasing them before he went to work at Tesla.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    > Yep I don’t get why they always build these fantastic concept cars but always dumb down the design for the release. Probably because 90% of a concept car is one-off (and that’s for the rare cases where it actually is a whole car, and not a shell), and re-tooling to create it (not to mention addding all the usual safety features) would make the mass production car cost hundreds of thousands.
    - ajmurmann 5y ago
      So why build the concept car in the first place? As a consumer seeing them at this point is just aggravating. It's just setting me up for disappointment. What's the point in setting your potential customers up for disappointment?
      - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
        To hype the shit out of it. If the concept car looks like crap, noone will be interested in the real deal... welcome to modern consumerism. The best part is companies do it because otherwise other companies will.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > So why build the concept car in the first place? Because it builds media attention to the potential related production development; there’s usually particular features that are envisioned being for future production. > As a consumer seeing them at this point is just aggravating Consumers aren’t really the target audience, their exposure is more of a side-effect.
- LightG 5y ago
  Yeah, fair points - I've not see the ioniq 5 live yet so will have to wait and see. I thought they'd nailed it as they had a longer wheelbase than normal. We'll see. VW.ID Buzz looks pretty bad@ss, to be honest. But if we're going down that route, I'd be sending up some prayers for a VW.ID Beetle. I can dream.
  - chrisweekly 5y ago
    Speaking of bad@ss, the Hummer EV sure looks the part...
- _puk 5y ago
  The ID buzz has got me excited too, but the video on the VW site [0] does the exact same thing we're knocking Tesla for.. "autonomous driving" displayed as the driver leans back, puts his hands behind his head and the steering wheel folds away! No wonder those in the market are confused as to what these cars are actually capable of. 0: last video on https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/electric-vans/id-buzz.html https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/electric-vans/id-buzz.h...
- canadianfella 5y ago
  Modern?
- ytdytvhxgydvhh 5y ago
  I think the buzzkill (apologies for the pun) on the ID.Buzz is the price. The classic VW Bus was quite affordable - basic ones cost the equivalent of today’s $25k way back when. Electrek reported an expected price of 40-60k euros for the ID.Buzz. So yeah, while it’ll look like the old Bus it won’t be as affordable for average people.
manishsharan 5y ago
>> Lane assist is enough for me. Does lane assist work at night when its raining or snowing ? I dont think I have ever needed lane assist during daytime however I find driving at night in snow or rain to be very stressful.
- freeone3000 5y ago
  Adaptive cruise control + lane assist can keep the car in your lane at highway speeds without input in specifically clear weather and well-marked roads and as long as the road doesn't curve too much. Lane assist doesn't work when the lane markers are obscured, so it fails specifically during the times you find lane keeping stressful.
  - _jal 5y ago
    Why does it seem like the functional effect of these systems is to serve as "mistake multipliers"?
    - VectorLock 5y ago
      Having just driven a brand new VW Passat that had a lane "assist" keeping that tried to jerk the wheel without so much as a beep multiple times, this sounds like the perfect way to describe it.
- protomyth 5y ago
  Lane assist during a snow storm would be a game changer. The number of times you end up driving in poor conditions in the northland is a pain. The 2008 Kia Rio had the best window for driving in snow. The A-frame window that looked directly at the center line was brilliant.
  - volkl48 5y ago
    Maybe. When driving in snow there are other considerations besides following the lanes buried somewhere beneath the snow. Like "has this lane been plowed" ? And "has the plow actually followed the lane or gone in the middle of the lanes" .
ragebol 5y ago
> The Ioniq 5 is currently the top of my Same. We used to have 2 cars, we ditched one early on in the pandemic and haven't missed it. Now we just have a small Toyota Aygo which barely fits a stroller for the kid. I'm trying to postpone the need to buy a car as long as I can to have more electric options. We just bought an electric cargo bike with a kids seat and that has been great too so far.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Electric bikes and cargo bikes are seriously under appreciated. They make life so much better in moderate climates. With a climate like the Bay Area, it's such a shame to see so much infrastructure devoted to deadly cars, and so little to making biking accessible to more people. Ebikes are half the equation, protected lanes so cars can't endanger your life are the other part.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - gibolt 5y ago
    I got a HyperScorpion and have the ability to switch between a passenger seat and small to giant cargo racks. It has replaced 95% of car trips, even giant grocery runs. The bay is lucky to have 3+ bike boulevards running parallel to major roads. Citymapper has been an awesome app to find more bike friendly routes that Google would never surface
- cycomanic 5y ago
  Another interesting one is the Ioniq 5 sister model the Kia EV6. I find that both Hyundai and Kia are really doing interesting design, very different looking to everyone else. And the 800V operation is also quite interesting.
JPKab 5y ago
I don't understand why people think Lucid is going to be so great when they aren't even mass-producing yet. It's easy to forget that building a concept car or small quantities is dramatically easier than mass producing something that's affordable to the masses. I own a model 3 and I certainly wasn't dumb enough to pay the 10K for the FSD. That being said I'm not a fan of the other electric cars because the charging infrastructure is garbage. Whenever I stop at a non Tesla charging station I have a very high probability of having to try two or three different plugs before I can get remotely decent current. Electrify America is the network VW was forced to fund after the diesel emission scandal and it's pretty bad. ChargePoint is the other one and they're not very good either. Definitely don't think the build quality on Tesla's is what it should be and I look forward to the factory in Texas coming out to solve that because Fremont is not going to cut it. That being said these other cars might be better for the price but good luck charging them.
- ytdytvhxgydvhh 5y ago
  > I don't understand why people think Lucid is going to be so great when they aren't even mass-producing yet. I assume it’s because their CEO/CTO was the chief engineer for the Tesla Model S. So, not only has he done it before, he presumably has some lessons learned on how to do things better the second time around. Agreed, that’s no guarantee though.
- Ntrails 5y ago
  > I look forward to the factory in Texas coming out to solve that because Fremont is not going to cut it. How does a factory being in Texas change build quality in a Tesla run environment? (Legitimate question, I know very little about this)
  - _coveredInBees 5y ago
    New tooling, new technology and the ability to design it all out from scratch. The Fremont factory was a retrofit of a Toyota factory iirc. It also has been the workhorse for most Tesla cars so it's hard to do any extended updates to it while they didnt have other factories to pick up slack. Not that I expect the Austin factory to solve all their fit and finish issues, but I am delaying my Model Y purchase till it comes online.
amarant 5y ago
Biggest reason to buy a Tesla seems to be the supercharger network. Where I live that's still a formidable reason. Competitors are catching up, but slowly. I'd say Tesla still has 3-5 years of market dominance where I live due to superchargers. Yes I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here, so please don't ask for sources
- dragontamer 5y ago
  I mean, PHEVs solve that problem pretty easily if you really care about range and a 'charger network'
fighterpilot 5y ago
> their hypeman isn't doing them any favours I disagree with that, their equity is doing quite nicely and without the hype I doubt it would've been possible to this extent.
ckdarby 5y ago
Isn't this the company that has a single prototype that the CEO has driven in the hype videos? They've got a long ways to go on the manufacturing side of things and at best look like they're 2-4 years behind where Tesla is today. Disclosure: Don't hold stock in either or anything in EV space.
- lukevp 5y ago
  Do you not have any S&P index funds or anything like that? Because Tesla is included in a lot of mutual funds these days. Just wanted to point that out since this disclaimer seems unlikely unless you don’t have stocks at all, or only buy individual stocks.
  - sidlls 5y ago
    The whole point of an index fund is to make those details irrelevant. One is putting trust in the individuals deciding what goes in the index to select quality securities, not vetting each individual one in the index.
cogman10 5y ago
The reason to buy a Tesla, IMO, is range and charging station availability. The software/FSD capabilities aren't good reasons to get one. Further, I think their current price tag of 10k is absolutely ridiculous. That said, if you are in a nation with good EV charging stations, plan on just using the car as a commuter, or if the buildout of current charging stations are good enough then I don't see a reason to pick a tesla over anything else on the market. I say all this as a current owner of a 2018 model 3 with FSD.

by LightG 5y ago

estaseuropano 5y ago

I'm waiting for the VW.ID Buzz. Classic bus in modern & electric, due September 2022. Just seems like a fantasy come true. Although I'm afraid the final version is unlikely to look like the awesome concept car... Ioniq looks good but doesn't seem very roomy in the back, so kids+dog+luggage won't fit.

WanderPanda 5y ago
Yep I don’t get why they always build these fantastic concept cars but always dumb down the design for the release. Interestingly in some podcast Franz von Holzhausen (the guy responsible for Teslas design) mentioned that he was tired of always designing concept cars and never releasing them before he went to work at Tesla.
- falcolas 5y ago
  > Yep I don’t get why they always build these fantastic concept cars but always dumb down the design for the release. Probably because 90% of a concept car is one-off (and that’s for the rare cases where it actually is a whole car, and not a shell), and re-tooling to create it (not to mention addding all the usual safety features) would make the mass production car cost hundreds of thousands.
  - ajmurmann 5y ago
    So why build the concept car in the first place? As a consumer seeing them at this point is just aggravating. It's just setting me up for disappointment. What's the point in setting your potential customers up for disappointment?
    - WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
      To hype the shit out of it. If the concept car looks like crap, noone will be interested in the real deal... welcome to modern consumerism. The best part is companies do it because otherwise other companies will.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > So why build the concept car in the first place? Because it builds media attention to the potential related production development; there’s usually particular features that are envisioned being for future production. > As a consumer seeing them at this point is just aggravating Consumers aren’t really the target audience, their exposure is more of a side-effect.
LightG 5y ago
Yeah, fair points - I've not see the ioniq 5 live yet so will have to wait and see. I thought they'd nailed it as they had a longer wheelbase than normal. We'll see. VW.ID Buzz looks pretty bad@ss, to be honest. But if we're going down that route, I'd be sending up some prayers for a VW.ID Beetle. I can dream.
- chrisweekly 5y ago
  Speaking of bad@ss, the Hummer EV sure looks the part...
_puk 5y ago
The ID buzz has got me excited too, but the video on the VW site [0] does the exact same thing we're knocking Tesla for.. "autonomous driving" displayed as the driver leans back, puts his hands behind his head and the steering wheel folds away! No wonder those in the market are confused as to what these cars are actually capable of. 0: last video on https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/electric-vans/id-buzz.html https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/electric-vans/id-buzz.h...
canadianfella 5y ago
Modern?
ytdytvhxgydvhh 5y ago
I think the buzzkill (apologies for the pun) on the ID.Buzz is the price. The classic VW Bus was quite affordable - basic ones cost the equivalent of today’s $25k way back when. Electrek reported an expected price of 40-60k euros for the ID.Buzz. So yeah, while it’ll look like the old Bus it won’t be as affordable for average people.

manishsharan 5y ago

>> Lane assist is enough for me. Does lane assist work at night when its raining or snowing ? I dont think I have ever needed lane assist during daytime however I find driving at night in snow or rain to be very stressful.

freeone3000 5y ago
Adaptive cruise control + lane assist can keep the car in your lane at highway speeds without input in specifically clear weather and well-marked roads and as long as the road doesn't curve too much. Lane assist doesn't work when the lane markers are obscured, so it fails specifically during the times you find lane keeping stressful.
- _jal 5y ago
  Why does it seem like the functional effect of these systems is to serve as "mistake multipliers"?
  - VectorLock 5y ago
    Having just driven a brand new VW Passat that had a lane "assist" keeping that tried to jerk the wheel without so much as a beep multiple times, this sounds like the perfect way to describe it.
protomyth 5y ago
Lane assist during a snow storm would be a game changer. The number of times you end up driving in poor conditions in the northland is a pain. The 2008 Kia Rio had the best window for driving in snow. The A-frame window that looked directly at the center line was brilliant.
- volkl48 5y ago
  Maybe. When driving in snow there are other considerations besides following the lanes buried somewhere beneath the snow. Like "has this lane been plowed" ? And "has the plow actually followed the lane or gone in the middle of the lanes" .

ragebol 5y ago

> The Ioniq 5 is currently the top of my Same. We used to have 2 cars, we ditched one early on in the pandemic and haven't missed it. Now we just have a small Toyota Aygo which barely fits a stroller for the kid. I'm trying to postpone the need to buy a car as long as I can to have more electric options. We just bought an electric cargo bike with a kids seat and that has been great too so far.

epistasis 5y ago
Electric bikes and cargo bikes are seriously under appreciated. They make life so much better in moderate climates. With a climate like the Bay Area, it's such a shame to see so much infrastructure devoted to deadly cars, and so little to making biking accessible to more people. Ebikes are half the equation, protected lanes so cars can't endanger your life are the other part.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gibolt 5y ago
  I got a HyperScorpion and have the ability to switch between a passenger seat and small to giant cargo racks. It has replaced 95% of car trips, even giant grocery runs. The bay is lucky to have 3+ bike boulevards running parallel to major roads. Citymapper has been an awesome app to find more bike friendly routes that Google would never surface
cycomanic 5y ago
Another interesting one is the Ioniq 5 sister model the Kia EV6. I find that both Hyundai and Kia are really doing interesting design, very different looking to everyone else. And the 800V operation is also quite interesting.

JPKab 5y ago

I don't understand why people think Lucid is going to be so great when they aren't even mass-producing yet. It's easy to forget that building a concept car or small quantities is dramatically easier than mass producing something that's affordable to the masses. I own a model 3 and I certainly wasn't dumb enough to pay the 10K for the FSD. That being said I'm not a fan of the other electric cars because the charging infrastructure is garbage. Whenever I stop at a non Tesla charging station I have a very high probability of having to try two or three different plugs before I can get remotely decent current. Electrify America is the network VW was forced to fund after the diesel emission scandal and it's pretty bad. ChargePoint is the other one and they're not very good either. Definitely don't think the build quality on Tesla's is what it should be and I look forward to the factory in Texas coming out to solve that because Fremont is not going to cut it. That being said these other cars might be better for the price but good luck charging them.

ytdytvhxgydvhh 5y ago
> I don't understand why people think Lucid is going to be so great when they aren't even mass-producing yet. I assume it’s because their CEO/CTO was the chief engineer for the Tesla Model S. So, not only has he done it before, he presumably has some lessons learned on how to do things better the second time around. Agreed, that’s no guarantee though.
Ntrails 5y ago
> I look forward to the factory in Texas coming out to solve that because Fremont is not going to cut it. How does a factory being in Texas change build quality in a Tesla run environment? (Legitimate question, I know very little about this)
- _coveredInBees 5y ago
  New tooling, new technology and the ability to design it all out from scratch. The Fremont factory was a retrofit of a Toyota factory iirc. It also has been the workhorse for most Tesla cars so it's hard to do any extended updates to it while they didnt have other factories to pick up slack. Not that I expect the Austin factory to solve all their fit and finish issues, but I am delaying my Model Y purchase till it comes online.

amarant 5y ago

Biggest reason to buy a Tesla seems to be the supercharger network. Where I live that's still a formidable reason. Competitors are catching up, but slowly. I'd say Tesla still has 3-5 years of market dominance where I live due to superchargers. Yes I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here, so please don't ask for sources

dragontamer 5y ago
I mean, PHEVs solve that problem pretty easily if you really care about range and a 'charger network'

fighterpilot 5y ago

> their hypeman isn't doing them any favours I disagree with that, their equity is doing quite nicely and without the hype I doubt it would've been possible to this extent.

ckdarby 5y ago

Isn't this the company that has a single prototype that the CEO has driven in the hype videos? They've got a long ways to go on the manufacturing side of things and at best look like they're 2-4 years behind where Tesla is today. Disclosure: Don't hold stock in either or anything in EV space.

lukevp 5y ago
Do you not have any S&P index funds or anything like that? Because Tesla is included in a lot of mutual funds these days. Just wanted to point that out since this disclaimer seems unlikely unless you don’t have stocks at all, or only buy individual stocks.
- sidlls 5y ago
  The whole point of an index fund is to make those details irrelevant. One is putting trust in the individuals deciding what goes in the index to select quality securities, not vetting each individual one in the index.

cogman10 5y ago

The reason to buy a Tesla, IMO, is range and charging station availability. The software/FSD capabilities aren't good reasons to get one. Further, I think their current price tag of 10k is absolutely ridiculous. That said, if you are in a nation with good EV charging stations, plan on just using the car as a commuter, or if the buildout of current charging stations are good enough then I don't see a reason to pick a tesla over anything else on the market. I say all this as a current owner of a 2018 model 3 with FSD.