4 ms·

Nuclear fusion plan at former Aberthaw Power Station

55 points by dane-pgp 6y ago

geophile 6y ago
Isn't this putting the cart about 10 light years in front of the horse?
- waheoo 6y ago
  No, only 30 or so.
dane-pgp 6y ago
> The Vale of Glamorgan council is bidding for the site to be used to house new technology to produce "limitless" energy ... However, the plant would not open until 2040. I'm glad that fusion is now less than 20 years away.
- detaro 6y ago
  Later in the article it's clearer that it's talking about a prototype/research thing.
- fnord77 6y ago
  heh, it's been less than 20 years away for the last 75 years.
  - melling 6y ago
    No, I think the joke is that it’s always 30 or 50 years away, can’t remember which. 20 would be a bit more optimism
    - random5634 6y ago
      As long as it’s actual production of limitless power in 30 - half the time these things are r&d stuff. 20 years to limitless power in production is great.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    I guess I have to get the chart now. https://i.imgur.com/3vYLQmm.png https://i.imgur.com/3vYLQmm.png The real world is more complicated than an old chart but it's definitely worth keeping in mind. And supercomputers have been very helpful recently to design balanced tokamaks!
- 317070 6y ago
  Well, it is all contingent on someone getting high temperature superconductors to work on an industrial reliability level. If they manage, we will have power producing fusion (though probably not economically viable). It is a big if, though. Fusion has always been 20 years away, as it was always contingent on some science panning out, but the universe has not been in our favour so far. It is 20 years away, with some decent but <50% probability.
  - DrBazza 6y ago
    Isn't REBCO tape the thing that is going to save fusion?
    - 317070 6y ago
      Yes, but turning the tape in a supermagnet that is reliable and doesn't burn itself to pieces on every quench event is non-trivial.
  - vkou 6y ago
    > Well, it is all contingent on someone getting high temperature superconductors to work on an industrial reliability level. Is that really the only path-critical bottleneck that needs to be solved? Has everything else been figured out?
    - _0ffh 6y ago
      No it's more complicated. High temperature superconductors are neither strictly necessary nor sufficient on their own, but I'm sure they'd help quite a bit.
    - ncmncm 6y ago
      Far from it. That old power station will sit idle for a long, long time... unless they build a solar farm around it. Seriously, there will never, ever be one solitary erg of commercially competitive energy from any process dependent on heating by neutron irradiation. Every cent going into work on those is, in effect, stolen from work on viable technologies that can have any impact on global climate disruption—mainly solar, wind, geothermal, and storage; and digs fusion deeper into an already tens-of-$billions-deep hole it can never climb out of. The only reasons spending on neutronic fusion continues are secondary—employing hot-neutron physicists so enough are ready when weapons work comes up, hi-temp superconductor industrialization, plasma fluid dynamics praxis, hot-neutron-tolerant metallurgy. At the end of it all they will shrug and say, "We guessed wrong", and not even apologize; instead: "... but we have this other great idea!"
- FridayoLeary 6y ago
  > The Vale of Glamorgan council That sounds like something straight out of Tolkein!
  - kitd 6y ago
    Or a book your username comes from? :)
- flohofwoe 6y ago
  That's more than the traditional "15 years" for technology that never happens though. Don't know what to make of this ;)
moreati 6y ago
Headline is a bit misleading. > Council officials are hoping a prototype nuclear fusion reactor could be built at a former power plant. They've bid to be the site for Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production (STEP). The selection hasn't bee made yet, even if the project goes ahead.
- trebligdivad 6y ago
  and I'm pretty sure we've had a HN story for a whole bunch of the other applications for STEP sites.
comfyinnernet 6y ago
I wonder who's spouse, in-law or sibling will get most of that £222m.
kylegordon 6y ago
"The devolved nations are getting antsy. Quick! Tease them with bridges and tunnels and infrastructure projects"

55 points by dane-pgp 6y ago

geophile 6y ago

Isn't this putting the cart about 10 light years in front of the horse?

waheoo 6y ago
No, only 30 or so.

dane-pgp 6y ago

> The Vale of Glamorgan council is bidding for the site to be used to house new technology to produce "limitless" energy ... However, the plant would not open until 2040. I'm glad that fusion is now less than 20 years away.

detaro 6y ago
Later in the article it's clearer that it's talking about a prototype/research thing.
fnord77 6y ago
heh, it's been less than 20 years away for the last 75 years.
- melling 6y ago
  No, I think the joke is that it’s always 30 or 50 years away, can’t remember which. 20 would be a bit more optimism
  - random5634 6y ago
    As long as it’s actual production of limitless power in 30 - half the time these things are r&d stuff. 20 years to limitless power in production is great.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  I guess I have to get the chart now. https://i.imgur.com/3vYLQmm.png https://i.imgur.com/3vYLQmm.png The real world is more complicated than an old chart but it's definitely worth keeping in mind. And supercomputers have been very helpful recently to design balanced tokamaks!
317070 6y ago
Well, it is all contingent on someone getting high temperature superconductors to work on an industrial reliability level. If they manage, we will have power producing fusion (though probably not economically viable). It is a big if, though. Fusion has always been 20 years away, as it was always contingent on some science panning out, but the universe has not been in our favour so far. It is 20 years away, with some decent but <50% probability.
- DrBazza 6y ago
  Isn't REBCO tape the thing that is going to save fusion?
  - 317070 6y ago
    Yes, but turning the tape in a supermagnet that is reliable and doesn't burn itself to pieces on every quench event is non-trivial.
- vkou 6y ago
  > Well, it is all contingent on someone getting high temperature superconductors to work on an industrial reliability level. Is that really the only path-critical bottleneck that needs to be solved? Has everything else been figured out?
  - _0ffh 6y ago
    No it's more complicated. High temperature superconductors are neither strictly necessary nor sufficient on their own, but I'm sure they'd help quite a bit.
  - ncmncm 6y ago
    Far from it. That old power station will sit idle for a long, long time... unless they build a solar farm around it. Seriously, there will never, ever be one solitary erg of commercially competitive energy from any process dependent on heating by neutron irradiation. Every cent going into work on those is, in effect, stolen from work on viable technologies that can have any impact on global climate disruption—mainly solar, wind, geothermal, and storage; and digs fusion deeper into an already tens-of-$billions-deep hole it can never climb out of. The only reasons spending on neutronic fusion continues are secondary—employing hot-neutron physicists so enough are ready when weapons work comes up, hi-temp superconductor industrialization, plasma fluid dynamics praxis, hot-neutron-tolerant metallurgy. At the end of it all they will shrug and say, "We guessed wrong", and not even apologize; instead: "... but we have this other great idea!"
FridayoLeary 6y ago
> The Vale of Glamorgan council That sounds like something straight out of Tolkein!
- kitd 6y ago
  Or a book your username comes from? :)
flohofwoe 6y ago
That's more than the traditional "15 years" for technology that never happens though. Don't know what to make of this ;)

moreati 6y ago

Headline is a bit misleading. > Council officials are hoping a prototype nuclear fusion reactor could be built at a former power plant. They've bid to be the site for Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production (STEP). The selection hasn't bee made yet, even if the project goes ahead.

trebligdivad 6y ago
and I'm pretty sure we've had a HN story for a whole bunch of the other applications for STEP sites.

comfyinnernet 6y ago

I wonder who's spouse, in-law or sibling will get most of that £222m.

kylegordon 6y ago

"The devolved nations are getting antsy. Quick! Tease them with bridges and tunnels and infrastructure projects"