5 ms·

I really don’t see: 1. Why this is at the top of HN 2. Why it matters what assets this donor was holding 3. Why brexit is being demonized at all, people have

I really don’t see: 1. Why this is at the top of HN 2. Why it matters what assets this donor was holding 3. Why brexit is being demonized at all, people have spoken, 5 years ago. Long term it could be good or could be bad, we don’t really know. We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty. Presumably, many in the UK (the majority) wanted an independent nation. I don’t see why who promoted the movement is demonized. It’s a reasonable thing to want, not necessarily saying it’s a good thing.

jeffbee 6y ago
So, have you read "Shock Doctrine"? People stand to make a lot of money by destabilizing governments and society.
- brigandish 6y ago
  Not being in the EU does not count as destabilising government and society. Either choice - remain or leave - was reasonable, the debate surrounding it was (largely) unreasonable. There's no need to continue the unreasonableness now.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    Brexit certainly destabilized British society by proving that young people have no stake in the social compact, old people will throw them under a bus as soon as they get the chance. It will also prove to have instigated the dissolution of the United Kingdom, eventually.
pmarreck 6y ago
I cannot find a reputable intelligent source that has only good things to say about Brexit, and I can easily find many reputable intelligent sources that have only bad things to say about it. So on the balance, as many movements seemingly only driven by populism and propaganda seem to be, it looks pretty bad.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  What a silly comment - it just means you haven't looked very hard. Being part of the EU means following their absurd economic migrant immigration rules, and later bailing out half of the members, who lied about their finances when joining and are bankrupt. Also, I'll take populism any day over elitism, especially British elites.
  - pmarreck 6y ago
    You're the same idiots (no matter which side of the pond) who think covid is a plandemic, elections get stolen and scientists are paid to lie by a secret cabal of... you know what? Just GTFO.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      Spot the leftist. > elections get stolen That's what the Dems said in 2016, and Hillary Clinton still denies losing. Don't you believe your own comrades? https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-think-that-the-2016-election-result-was-rigged/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-... Regarding 2020, why is there a restraining order against election investigations in Arizona? Surely we all want to know the truth, right? https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/county-supervisor-democrats-file-injunction-to-stop-gop-audit-of-arizona-election-results/article_4f6fe96c-a3cd-11eb-98e7-674c4acc876d.html https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/coun... > scientists are paid to lie by a secret cabal of The CCP is currently bribing scientists world-wide to commit espionage. It's called the Thousand Talents program, and the FBI has dozens if not hundreds of open cases, including convictions. https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-china-threat https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin... > Just GTFO. Ignorance is bliss, at least for you, hypocrite. For those who are interested in facts instead of leftist narrative, everything you've read on social media, cnn.com or msnbc.com is a lie. The closest I've seen to actual reporting is Sky Australia and NTD media, both on Youtube.
sorokod 6y ago
"We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty" As opposed to, say, Germany or France?
- LudwigNagasena 6y ago
  Yes, as opposed to Germany and France. Surely being a part of a supranational union that has its laws and courts means you renounce at least a part of your sovereignty.
  - sorokod 6y ago
    To some extent you always do, it's a give and take. Just wait and see what the future trade agreements will bring. Spoiler alert - India is really keen on making it easy for their IT people to work in UK.
    - brigandish 6y ago
      Allowing high skilled immigration as part of a trade deal would not only be a massive benefit to both parties, but also wouldn't be anything at all like allowing another state to make law in your nation. The sovereignty part is about being able to decide your immigration policy, not about having one.
      - sorokod 6y ago
        You believe that being an EU member prevented having the "massive benefit to both parties" in the past? Is it not more likely that a government that has publicly committed to reducing immigration was not interested in such benefits if indeed they existed?
        brigandish 6y ago
        Firstly, that’s a different point. You compared an immigration policy with sovereignty or the ability to make law in a different state. Since you want to move the goalposts, yes, the public was and is interested in reducing overall immigration, especially of low skill. Even if it wasn’t, you appear to be suggesting that any immigration would be opposed, especially from India. Not sure where you get that idea from.
rvieira 6y ago
I think it matters. If an entity donates a considerable amount of money to a political party, and the goals are not obviously aligned, it poses questions about why they did it.

jeffbee 6y ago

So, have you read "Shock Doctrine"? People stand to make a lot of money by destabilizing governments and society.

brigandish 6y ago
Not being in the EU does not count as destabilising government and society. Either choice - remain or leave - was reasonable, the debate surrounding it was (largely) unreasonable. There's no need to continue the unreasonableness now.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Brexit certainly destabilized British society by proving that young people have no stake in the social compact, old people will throw them under a bus as soon as they get the chance. It will also prove to have instigated the dissolution of the United Kingdom, eventually.

pmarreck 6y ago

I cannot find a reputable intelligent source that has only good things to say about Brexit, and I can easily find many reputable intelligent sources that have only bad things to say about it. So on the balance, as many movements seemingly only driven by populism and propaganda seem to be, it looks pretty bad.

redis_mlc 6y ago
What a silly comment - it just means you haven't looked very hard. Being part of the EU means following their absurd economic migrant immigration rules, and later bailing out half of the members, who lied about their finances when joining and are bankrupt. Also, I'll take populism any day over elitism, especially British elites.
- pmarreck 6y ago
  You're the same idiots (no matter which side of the pond) who think covid is a plandemic, elections get stolen and scientists are paid to lie by a secret cabal of... you know what? Just GTFO.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    Spot the leftist. > elections get stolen That's what the Dems said in 2016, and Hillary Clinton still denies losing. Don't you believe your own comrades? https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-think-that-the-2016-election-result-was-rigged/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-... Regarding 2020, why is there a restraining order against election investigations in Arizona? Surely we all want to know the truth, right? https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/county-supervisor-democrats-file-injunction-to-stop-gop-audit-of-arizona-election-results/article_4f6fe96c-a3cd-11eb-98e7-674c4acc876d.html https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/coun... > scientists are paid to lie by a secret cabal of The CCP is currently bribing scientists world-wide to commit espionage. It's called the Thousand Talents program, and the FBI has dozens if not hundreds of open cases, including convictions. https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-china-threat https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin... > Just GTFO. Ignorance is bliss, at least for you, hypocrite. For those who are interested in facts instead of leftist narrative, everything you've read on social media, cnn.com or msnbc.com is a lie. The closest I've seen to actual reporting is Sky Australia and NTD media, both on Youtube.

sorokod 6y ago

"We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty" As opposed to, say, Germany or France?

LudwigNagasena 6y ago
Yes, as opposed to Germany and France. Surely being a part of a supranational union that has its laws and courts means you renounce at least a part of your sovereignty.
- sorokod 6y ago
  To some extent you always do, it's a give and take. Just wait and see what the future trade agreements will bring. Spoiler alert - India is really keen on making it easy for their IT people to work in UK.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    Allowing high skilled immigration as part of a trade deal would not only be a massive benefit to both parties, but also wouldn't be anything at all like allowing another state to make law in your nation. The sovereignty part is about being able to decide your immigration policy, not about having one.
    - sorokod 6y ago
      You believe that being an EU member prevented having the "massive benefit to both parties" in the past? Is it not more likely that a government that has publicly committed to reducing immigration was not interested in such benefits if indeed they existed?
      - brigandish 6y ago
        Firstly, that’s a different point. You compared an immigration policy with sovereignty or the ability to make law in a different state. Since you want to move the goalposts, yes, the public was and is interested in reducing overall immigration, especially of low skill. Even if it wasn’t, you appear to be suggesting that any immigration would be opposed, especially from India. Not sure where you get that idea from.

rvieira 6y ago

I think it matters. If an entity donates a considerable amount of money to a political party, and the goals are not obviously aligned, it poses questions about why they did it.