6 ms·

Most people have no need to compare CPUs between mobile/non mobile or generation. They just need to know if the laptop they're looking at has the high end / mid

Most people have no need to compare CPUs between mobile/non mobile or generation. They just need to know if the laptop they're looking at has the high end / middle end / low end CPU. You'd be comparing a new laptop with latest(-ish) CPUs. The i3/i5/i7 makes it plain & simple to know that. You don't need to figure out what the "middle end" CPU is called this year. It's the i5, problem solved.

caslon 5y ago
You can't forget that there are multiple variants of i3, i5 and i7 every year! And presumably now the i9 but I haven't been paying attention. 6400 6500 6600 6600k random assortment of numbers and letters! It hardly works! The consumer still has to do just as much work!
- kijin 5y ago
  It's even worse these days. There are letters in the middle of the model name, e.g. i7-1165G7, not just at the beginning and end! That thing doesn't even sort. You have no idea where to position it without seeing the spec sheet and Passmark scores. We consumers have it easy, though. Go find some Xeon or EPYC model numbers and try to figure out which digit means what. They make absolutely no sense.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > You have no idea where to position it without seeing the spec sheet and Passmark scores. You can probably get pretty far by adding the 3/5/7 to the generation number and sorting by the sum.
jrumbut 5y ago
This definitely feels like an engineer's approach to marketing.
klelatti 5y ago
The decision that people think about most is when to upgrade (by definition it stretches over a longer time period than the single point purchasing decision). That's why we have iPhone 7/8/9...13 and similarly for Samsung etc. If your i3/i5/i7 designation gives no clues then that's not helpful.
- earthboundkid 5y ago
  Yes, this point is so obvious, I feel like I've got to be missing something. I am a professional programmer. I am vaguely aware that Intel chips have X-Lake based codenames. I have no idea how to compare the chip in my current laptop to a new laptop based on Intel's marketing names. To convince myself to upgrade, I just go to Geekbench, because nothing else in the marketing tells me the new chip is better. Seems like a very fundamental marketing failure that could be resolved by exposing the X-Lake names to the public in some friendly form.
  - Macha 5y ago
    Intel CPU numbering: iX-YYZZZ[Suffix] X = 3/5/7/9 = market positioning bucket. Higher is better Y = generation, currently at 11. This is basically a numeric form of the "* Lake" naming, except for 10th gen where Ice Lake (10nm, better power efficiency) and Comet Lake (14nm, higher max perf) co-existed in laptops ZZZ = position within that generation, higher is better, more detailed than the i3/i5/i7/i9 bucketing. Suffixes: H = "High Performance" - laptop CPUs with higher perf and higher energy usage. The fastest laptop chips in a given gen previously got branded "HQ" (originally the Q meant quad core), but otherwise HQ = H. U = "Ultra portable" - laptop CPUs with lower perf and energy usage. Usually can boost well for short tasks, so you might not notice if the most intensive thing you do is compiling code but fall flat for longer workloads such as gaming. Y = Lowest power usage - These are all garbage, to be honest. You might have one in your windows tablet or netbook. M = "Mobile" - dead these days, as the H chips replaced them, there were a couple of gens where H and M co-existed with H > M > U. G_N_ - Integrated graphics rating. All G3 cpus in the same gen will have the same igpu. This only exists on tenth gen/eleventh gen 10nm chips. These chips are more efficient than H/U series chips at the same perf, but don't yet reach the performance peaks of the H series due to lower clock speeds. K - Unlocked overclockable CPUs, mostly desktop chips, but HK chips for laptops exist too. F - No integrated GPU. Mostly desktop only. T - Power efficient desktop CPU (thanks mehlmao) These suffixes can be combined, e.g. HK for overclockable laptop cpus or KF for desktop cpus with overclocking and no IGPU. --- So the rule of thumb version for a laptop buyer is H = high power, U/Gx = better battery life, within that, pick highest perf ranking number (ZZZ) within your budget. Deduct 1-2 positions per generation out of date. If you need to compare cross-gen or vs AMD, you need to go look at reviews. The G numbers in particular are pretty meaningless to consumers. Basically all Intel iGPUs fall into a bucket that is "Good enough for windows or esports titles, not good enough for new or recent AAA games". Other features are more of interest to DIY builders, nobody is going to sell you a laptop with no igpu and no dgpu, and if you're not interested enough to read up on this, you certainly don't care about overclocking.
Macha 5y ago
Except you go to the store and there's laptops with 3 generations of cpus in there and the 10nm/14nm split for tenth gen so it's entirely possible to run into a laptop with an i7 worse than the i5 in the laptop next to it on the shelf/store webpage.
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  Or in my case, my new i3 laptop runs circles around my 5-year-old i7 laptop.
michaelt 5y ago
Maybe not. But if you're thinking "Should I upgrade my 6 year old i7 system?" or "Will I notice the difference from spending an extra $200 on my CPU?" these days it isn't easy to come up with a sure answer.
- josho 5y ago
  That’s intentional. It’s so that the salesperson can use messaging to guide you to whatever machine they have the best margins on.
  - hobs 5y ago
    Spoiling your customers with choice actually often has the opposite effect, they become apathetic and do nothing.
    - brewdad 5y ago
      For me, the buying strategy these days is to decide on the features that are most important (screen, keyboard, RAM, battery life, etc.) Find a machine that satisfies those key elements and then pick a price point and buy. Doing anything more leads to the paralysis you mention.
unchocked 5y ago
Right, and this describes the marketing problem. If I already have an i5, why would I need another one unless it's broken? If I have an M1 and they're selling M5's, I'm continually reminded that my rig is out of date.
- kijin 5y ago
  This reminds me of when the iPhone first came out. Back then, most phones from other manufacturers had an assortment of random names and model numbers that carried no hint as to which one was better or newer. Meanwhile, iPhone N+1 was obviously better than iPhone N. Samsung quickly learned to play the same trick with their yearly Galaxy S and Galaxy Note releases. That decision probably contributed to the market share they've been enjoying.
  - astrange 5y ago
    The confusing names can be good for big box stores because they prevent comparison shopping, if every store gets their own SKU then they can offer to beat competitors' prices without ever having to do it. Although for phones, they were mostly handed out by carriers at the time and people didn't shop on their own.
tester34 5y ago
what??? >The i3/i5/i7 makes it plain & simple to know that. there are i7s that are terrible there are i5s that are terrible there are decent i3s "i3" "i5" "i7" doesn't tell you anything itself about perf
Aperocky 5y ago
Yeah and then they get surprised at why the mobile one suck. That was me trying to play games on laptops with 'i7' about a dozen years ago.
- jean_tta 5y ago
  I am not arguing that the product naming is perfect, only that is not completely absurd as others claimed. Comparing the performance of laptop and desktop is a niche case. Most people know whether they want a laptop or a desktop and then choose among those categories.
  - eitland 5y ago
    > Comparing the performance of laptop and desktop is a niche case. Most people know whether they want a laptop or a desktop and then choose among those categories. I think you will find many people thinking that is a very useful thing to compare.
memsom 5y ago
When you can walk in to a store and be presented with laptops with "Core i5" that are 1 or more generations apart, and where a newer processor isn't always better than an older generation (different architecture, cores caches etc), I think having more than "it's an new laptop and it has an i5" is quite helpful. I think with the Apple chips, there is always a progression so far. If they keep that up, the marketing is on point and you'd always know that what you are buying is "one better than last year". I appreciate we can't guess what they will actually do, and the reality might be as diluted as the ia32/X64 marketplace is now.
manigandham 5y ago
That's already too low-level for most people. They care about the overall device model, not the components inside. This is why Apple has been so successful, everything has a simple model and version number or year attached, with generally more performance as numbers (storage, ram) get bigger.

caslon 5y ago

You can't forget that there are multiple variants of i3, i5 and i7 every year! And presumably now the i9 but I haven't been paying attention. 6400 6500 6600 6600k random assortment of numbers and letters! It hardly works! The consumer still has to do just as much work!

kijin 5y ago
It's even worse these days. There are letters in the middle of the model name, e.g. i7-1165G7, not just at the beginning and end! That thing doesn't even sort. You have no idea where to position it without seeing the spec sheet and Passmark scores. We consumers have it easy, though. Go find some Xeon or EPYC model numbers and try to figure out which digit means what. They make absolutely no sense.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > You have no idea where to position it without seeing the spec sheet and Passmark scores. You can probably get pretty far by adding the 3/5/7 to the generation number and sorting by the sum.

jrumbut 5y ago

This definitely feels like an engineer's approach to marketing.

klelatti 5y ago

The decision that people think about most is when to upgrade (by definition it stretches over a longer time period than the single point purchasing decision). That's why we have iPhone 7/8/9...13 and similarly for Samsung etc. If your i3/i5/i7 designation gives no clues then that's not helpful.

earthboundkid 5y ago
Yes, this point is so obvious, I feel like I've got to be missing something. I am a professional programmer. I am vaguely aware that Intel chips have X-Lake based codenames. I have no idea how to compare the chip in my current laptop to a new laptop based on Intel's marketing names. To convince myself to upgrade, I just go to Geekbench, because nothing else in the marketing tells me the new chip is better. Seems like a very fundamental marketing failure that could be resolved by exposing the X-Lake names to the public in some friendly form.
- Macha 5y ago
  Intel CPU numbering: iX-YYZZZ[Suffix] X = 3/5/7/9 = market positioning bucket. Higher is better Y = generation, currently at 11. This is basically a numeric form of the "* Lake" naming, except for 10th gen where Ice Lake (10nm, better power efficiency) and Comet Lake (14nm, higher max perf) co-existed in laptops ZZZ = position within that generation, higher is better, more detailed than the i3/i5/i7/i9 bucketing. Suffixes: H = "High Performance" - laptop CPUs with higher perf and higher energy usage. The fastest laptop chips in a given gen previously got branded "HQ" (originally the Q meant quad core), but otherwise HQ = H. U = "Ultra portable" - laptop CPUs with lower perf and energy usage. Usually can boost well for short tasks, so you might not notice if the most intensive thing you do is compiling code but fall flat for longer workloads such as gaming. Y = Lowest power usage - These are all garbage, to be honest. You might have one in your windows tablet or netbook. M = "Mobile" - dead these days, as the H chips replaced them, there were a couple of gens where H and M co-existed with H > M > U. G_N_ - Integrated graphics rating. All G3 cpus in the same gen will have the same igpu. This only exists on tenth gen/eleventh gen 10nm chips. These chips are more efficient than H/U series chips at the same perf, but don't yet reach the performance peaks of the H series due to lower clock speeds. K - Unlocked overclockable CPUs, mostly desktop chips, but HK chips for laptops exist too. F - No integrated GPU. Mostly desktop only. T - Power efficient desktop CPU (thanks mehlmao) These suffixes can be combined, e.g. HK for overclockable laptop cpus or KF for desktop cpus with overclocking and no IGPU. --- So the rule of thumb version for a laptop buyer is H = high power, U/Gx = better battery life, within that, pick highest perf ranking number (ZZZ) within your budget. Deduct 1-2 positions per generation out of date. If you need to compare cross-gen or vs AMD, you need to go look at reviews. The G numbers in particular are pretty meaningless to consumers. Basically all Intel iGPUs fall into a bucket that is "Good enough for windows or esports titles, not good enough for new or recent AAA games". Other features are more of interest to DIY builders, nobody is going to sell you a laptop with no igpu and no dgpu, and if you're not interested enough to read up on this, you certainly don't care about overclocking.

Macha 5y ago

Except you go to the store and there's laptops with 3 generations of cpus in there and the 10nm/14nm split for tenth gen so it's entirely possible to run into a laptop with an i7 worse than the i5 in the laptop next to it on the shelf/store webpage.

geerlingguy 5y ago
Or in my case, my new i3 laptop runs circles around my 5-year-old i7 laptop.

michaelt 5y ago

Maybe not. But if you're thinking "Should I upgrade my 6 year old i7 system?" or "Will I notice the difference from spending an extra $200 on my CPU?" these days it isn't easy to come up with a sure answer.

josho 5y ago
That’s intentional. It’s so that the salesperson can use messaging to guide you to whatever machine they have the best margins on.
- hobs 5y ago
  Spoiling your customers with choice actually often has the opposite effect, they become apathetic and do nothing.
  - brewdad 5y ago
    For me, the buying strategy these days is to decide on the features that are most important (screen, keyboard, RAM, battery life, etc.) Find a machine that satisfies those key elements and then pick a price point and buy. Doing anything more leads to the paralysis you mention.

unchocked 5y ago

Right, and this describes the marketing problem. If I already have an i5, why would I need another one unless it's broken? If I have an M1 and they're selling M5's, I'm continually reminded that my rig is out of date.

kijin 5y ago
This reminds me of when the iPhone first came out. Back then, most phones from other manufacturers had an assortment of random names and model numbers that carried no hint as to which one was better or newer. Meanwhile, iPhone N+1 was obviously better than iPhone N. Samsung quickly learned to play the same trick with their yearly Galaxy S and Galaxy Note releases. That decision probably contributed to the market share they've been enjoying.
- astrange 5y ago
  The confusing names can be good for big box stores because they prevent comparison shopping, if every store gets their own SKU then they can offer to beat competitors' prices without ever having to do it. Although for phones, they were mostly handed out by carriers at the time and people didn't shop on their own.

tester34 5y ago

what??? >The i3/i5/i7 makes it plain & simple to know that. there are i7s that are terrible there are i5s that are terrible there are decent i3s "i3" "i5" "i7" doesn't tell you anything itself about perf

Aperocky 5y ago

Yeah and then they get surprised at why the mobile one suck. That was me trying to play games on laptops with 'i7' about a dozen years ago.

jean_tta 5y ago
I am not arguing that the product naming is perfect, only that is not completely absurd as others claimed. Comparing the performance of laptop and desktop is a niche case. Most people know whether they want a laptop or a desktop and then choose among those categories.
- eitland 5y ago
  > Comparing the performance of laptop and desktop is a niche case. Most people know whether they want a laptop or a desktop and then choose among those categories. I think you will find many people thinking that is a very useful thing to compare.

memsom 5y ago

When you can walk in to a store and be presented with laptops with "Core i5" that are 1 or more generations apart, and where a newer processor isn't always better than an older generation (different architecture, cores caches etc), I think having more than "it's an new laptop and it has an i5" is quite helpful. I think with the Apple chips, there is always a progression so far. If they keep that up, the marketing is on point and you'd always know that what you are buying is "one better than last year". I appreciate we can't guess what they will actually do, and the reality might be as diluted as the ia32/X64 marketplace is now.

manigandham 5y ago

That's already too low-level for most people. They care about the overall device model, not the components inside. This is why Apple has been so successful, everything has a simple model and version number or year attached, with generally more performance as numbers (storage, ram) get bigger.