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Storing all your gold at home is your super secure safe is also not very smart though. I am actually surprised we do not see more robberies of this kind targeti

Storing all your gold at home is your super secure safe is also not very smart though. I am actually surprised we do not see more robberies of this kind targeting Bitcoin billionaires.

Viker 6y ago
Here is the irony of crypto vs gold... You can secure ur gold physically very well, fires and natural disasters short of volcano, yet it is easy to steal it at gunpoint. Crypto is hard and cumbersome to secure ( paper keys, hw Wallets), yet very hard to steal at gunpoint.
- leereeves 6y ago
  Hard to steal at gunpoint? Who is going to refuse to hand over their keys when the choice is "Your Bitcoin keys or your life"?
  - Viker 6y ago
    Sure. I can hand you a handful of USB sticks about 20 paper wallets maybe a hard disk or two...and tell you, here are my keys. Now what you do? Do you put down your gun and start verifying which one is with actual funds or, do you know what is a usb drive and what is a hw wallet? Are you gonna ask me for my password too. How do you know you actually stole something worthwhile? How do you know I am not going to be faster transferring the coins to different wallets? All that is vs. "show me gold, shiny ohh heavy". You see the levels of complications....
    - root_axis 6y ago
      A million dollar heist typically involves more than one individual. One person holds the gun the other handles moving and verifying the funds.
    - Deestan 6y ago
      I'd sit there with you and transfer them through some tumblers. I'd have brought a laptop and set aside time, and will threaten you on your life if you slow down or refuse. It only sounds hard if you assume I'd take an unreasoanbly incompetent approach. It's like "rape is impossible because a women with her skirt up runs faster than a man with his pants down".
    - imtringued 6y ago
      To be fair, because it is so easy to hand over access to crypto wallets vs a bank account (your bank will reverse fraudulent transactions) it would actually be possible to hand the robber a bait wallet with a small fraction of your net worth but enough to keep the robber happy.
    - matheusmoreira 6y ago
      If the criminal is sophisticated enough to target cryptocurrency holdings, they'll probably transfer the coins to their own wallets right there on the crime scene. Exchanges won't help either: they can simply force their victims to log in and withdraw the money. This also happens with traditional banks where I live. People are kidnapped and taken to ATMs where their accounts are drained.
  - zdkl 6y ago
    "Here is my 'checking' wallet. The key to my paper 'savings' wallet are in bank XYZ's vault, care to come get them with me?"
    - leereeves 6y ago
      That's about the security of bank vaults, not Bitcoin. Fiat savings (or gold, diamonds, whatever) stored in the bank vault would be just as hard to steal.
    - foepys 6y ago
      May I introduce you to the $5 wrench method? https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
      - zdkl 6y ago
        Irrelevant because I cannot (a) give the content of the vault from memory to save my life or (b) enter the vault accompanied (so there's an opportunity to alert bank personnel that I am under duress). Well "irrelevant" to the safety of the wallet at least, not of my squishy bits.
- robobutler 6y ago
  > it is easy to steal it at gunpoint for every bitcoin you'd have to carry one kilogram of gold If I was a thief, I would very much prefer to steal an USB stick
- gruez 6y ago
  >Crypto is hard and cumbersome to secure ( paper keys, hw Wallets) are hardware/paper wallets hard/cumbersome to use? I suppose they're less intuitive locking up a metal bar, but they're not exactly hard to use. If anything they're easier to secure because you can store multiple redundant copies, whereas you can't with gold.
Stevvo 6y ago
The chance that a Bitcoin billionaire has their private key held in a way that easily be robbed is pretty low. Most will be using additional cryptographic security. e.g. Shamir's Secret Sharing.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  Killing a bitcoin billionaire can also be a way to inflate its value. I can imagine one bitcoin billionaire killing others to do just that in order to reduce the supplies.
  - gruez 6y ago
    Bitcoin's market cap is currently around $1T. Killing someone with $1B in bitcoins would only increase the value of the remaining coins by 0.1%. That seems horribly risky for a very small gain.
    - ac29 6y ago
      Thats only true if you assume 100% of coins are actually accessible. The true market cap of bitcoin is always going to be less than the number of coins that have been mined would imply, due to losses.
  - Stevvo 6y ago
    Shamir's Secret Sharing could also be a solution to this, with parts distributed to your heirs and the threshold being the number of parts you distribute to others, keeping an additional part for yourself.

Storing all your gold at home is your super secure safe is also not very smart though. I am actually surprised we do not see more robberies of this kind targeting Bitcoin billionaires.

Viker 6y ago

Here is the irony of crypto vs gold... You can secure ur gold physically very well, fires and natural disasters short of volcano, yet it is easy to steal it at gunpoint. Crypto is hard and cumbersome to secure ( paper keys, hw Wallets), yet very hard to steal at gunpoint.

leereeves 6y ago
Hard to steal at gunpoint? Who is going to refuse to hand over their keys when the choice is "Your Bitcoin keys or your life"?
- Viker 6y ago
  Sure. I can hand you a handful of USB sticks about 20 paper wallets maybe a hard disk or two...and tell you, here are my keys. Now what you do? Do you put down your gun and start verifying which one is with actual funds or, do you know what is a usb drive and what is a hw wallet? Are you gonna ask me for my password too. How do you know you actually stole something worthwhile? How do you know I am not going to be faster transferring the coins to different wallets? All that is vs. "show me gold, shiny ohh heavy". You see the levels of complications....
  - root_axis 6y ago
    A million dollar heist typically involves more than one individual. One person holds the gun the other handles moving and verifying the funds.
  - Deestan 6y ago
    I'd sit there with you and transfer them through some tumblers. I'd have brought a laptop and set aside time, and will threaten you on your life if you slow down or refuse. It only sounds hard if you assume I'd take an unreasoanbly incompetent approach. It's like "rape is impossible because a women with her skirt up runs faster than a man with his pants down".
  - imtringued 6y ago
    To be fair, because it is so easy to hand over access to crypto wallets vs a bank account (your bank will reverse fraudulent transactions) it would actually be possible to hand the robber a bait wallet with a small fraction of your net worth but enough to keep the robber happy.
  - matheusmoreira 6y ago
    If the criminal is sophisticated enough to target cryptocurrency holdings, they'll probably transfer the coins to their own wallets right there on the crime scene. Exchanges won't help either: they can simply force their victims to log in and withdraw the money. This also happens with traditional banks where I live. People are kidnapped and taken to ATMs where their accounts are drained.
- zdkl 6y ago
  "Here is my 'checking' wallet. The key to my paper 'savings' wallet are in bank XYZ's vault, care to come get them with me?"
  - leereeves 6y ago
    That's about the security of bank vaults, not Bitcoin. Fiat savings (or gold, diamonds, whatever) stored in the bank vault would be just as hard to steal.
  - foepys 6y ago
    May I introduce you to the $5 wrench method? https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
    - zdkl 6y ago
      Irrelevant because I cannot (a) give the content of the vault from memory to save my life or (b) enter the vault accompanied (so there's an opportunity to alert bank personnel that I am under duress). Well "irrelevant" to the safety of the wallet at least, not of my squishy bits.
robobutler 6y ago
> it is easy to steal it at gunpoint for every bitcoin you'd have to carry one kilogram of gold If I was a thief, I would very much prefer to steal an USB stick
gruez 6y ago
>Crypto is hard and cumbersome to secure ( paper keys, hw Wallets) are hardware/paper wallets hard/cumbersome to use? I suppose they're less intuitive locking up a metal bar, but they're not exactly hard to use. If anything they're easier to secure because you can store multiple redundant copies, whereas you can't with gold.

Stevvo 6y ago

The chance that a Bitcoin billionaire has their private key held in a way that easily be robbed is pretty low. Most will be using additional cryptographic security. e.g. Shamir's Secret Sharing.

mrtksn 6y ago
Killing a bitcoin billionaire can also be a way to inflate its value. I can imagine one bitcoin billionaire killing others to do just that in order to reduce the supplies.
- gruez 6y ago
  Bitcoin's market cap is currently around $1T. Killing someone with $1B in bitcoins would only increase the value of the remaining coins by 0.1%. That seems horribly risky for a very small gain.
  - ac29 6y ago
    Thats only true if you assume 100% of coins are actually accessible. The true market cap of bitcoin is always going to be less than the number of coins that have been mined would imply, due to losses.
- Stevvo 6y ago
  Shamir's Secret Sharing could also be a solution to this, with parts distributed to your heirs and the threshold being the number of parts you distribute to others, keeping an additional part for yourself.