4 ms·

> Radiation on Mars is at least half that of being in space because you have radiation from one half of the "sky" blocked by the planet itself You have to get

> Radiation on Mars is at least half that of being in space because you have radiation from one half of the "sky" blocked by the planet itself You have to get there, which exposes you to a lot of radiation. And then you have to live there which exposes you to a lot more, no matter if it is "half" that you would get if Mars was a one-faced world WRT the sun. Also, how are you going to get these diggers, their fuel, their support systems, etc, etc, to Mars that will excavate holes (lovely to live in) or cover things (ditto)? Why would anyone want to live like that, or worse, condemn their children to do so? I used (in the 1960/70s) to believe in the colonisation of space. But now not at all - it is simply too difficult. And that's the answer to the Fermi Paradox.

extrapickles 6y ago
If you at least sleep underground (1-2m), it keeps the total lifetime radiation dose manageable. For most of the machinery, you would bring the tricky to manufacture bits (tight tolerance mechanical, electronics, non-basic chemicals) with you, and build the bulk structural parts on site. Even for something like a 10,000kg machine tool, only about ~500-2000kgs of materials need to be sent (see granite+epoxy CNC machines[0]). Other machines, such as diggers, they would have to be electric powered. This is not too difficult as most heavy machines are diesel->hydraulic, with electric->hydraulic conversion not too hard (run-time will suffer though). If you wanted to start a colony, its easy if you can get 10,000 people to go as everyone doesn't have to wear a dozen different hats to keep things going. With current in-use launch tech, its unlikely that enough people can afford to go (or can get a loan to do so). If launch costs get down to ~$500k/ton to Mars, then it would be possible. The biggest issue at first would likely be getting enough electrical power from solar to refine metals and chemicals as that takes a lot of electricity and the likely first sources or raw materials will be sub-optimal as you would be prioritizing ease of access over efficiency. [0]: https://www.cnccookbook.com/epoxy-granite-cnc-machine-fill/ https://www.cnccookbook.com/epoxy-granite-cnc-machine-fill/
nitrogen 6y ago
holes (lovely to live in) People build hobbit houses and earthships and the like all the time.
- caf 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy
nine_k 6y ago
> Why would anyone want to live like that Think about not being under control of any government of Earth. This is literally a new world, for you to shape. For some people it's worth all the downsides, and more.
- karlmdavis 6y ago
  Indeed! Instead, you’d get to live under a much smaller, less experienced, and more resource-starved government —- possibly a corporatocracy. Yay!
  - SyzygistSix 6y ago
    Control needs a basis from which to operate. I doubt there will be much of one on Mars initially. It would most likely be a direct democracy just because of the reality on the ground.
- _jal 6y ago
  Instead, you'll have the pleasure of living under what amounts to a ubiquitous-surveillance dictatorship. What, you think surviving under those conditions will work like a Heinlein novel?
  - SyzygistSix 6y ago
    What makes you think Mars would be like that more than Earth? Mars colonists can simply turn the cameras off when they want.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      Your sponsors can also just stop supporting you when they want. An uprising on Mars can be struck down by waiting for everyone on mars to die.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Not under control of any government on earth? It's not 2200 yet. Your entire colony will be dependent on earth for the rest of your lifetime. If we had evidence of nitrogen in martian soil and we had already sent machines that increase atmospheric pressure on the planet then you might be justified in thinking that it's just a matter of time. As it is right now you would have to live in an earth sponsored underground shelter and die in there. By defying earth you would just die sooner.
SyzygistSix 6y ago
I think the digging aspect is being worked on. I don't think starting the Boring Co. was a random idea. Although the machines don't run on methane. Yet.

extrapickles 6y ago

If you at least sleep underground (1-2m), it keeps the total lifetime radiation dose manageable. For most of the machinery, you would bring the tricky to manufacture bits (tight tolerance mechanical, electronics, non-basic chemicals) with you, and build the bulk structural parts on site. Even for something like a 10,000kg machine tool, only about ~500-2000kgs of materials need to be sent (see granite+epoxy CNC machines[0]). Other machines, such as diggers, they would have to be electric powered. This is not too difficult as most heavy machines are diesel->hydraulic, with electric->hydraulic conversion not too hard (run-time will suffer though). If you wanted to start a colony, its easy if you can get 10,000 people to go as everyone doesn't have to wear a dozen different hats to keep things going. With current in-use launch tech, its unlikely that enough people can afford to go (or can get a loan to do so). If launch costs get down to ~$500k/ton to Mars, then it would be possible. The biggest issue at first would likely be getting enough electrical power from solar to refine metals and chemicals as that takes a lot of electricity and the likely first sources or raw materials will be sub-optimal as you would be prioritizing ease of access over efficiency. [0]: https://www.cnccookbook.com/epoxy-granite-cnc-machine-fill/ https://www.cnccookbook.com/epoxy-granite-cnc-machine-fill/

nitrogen 6y ago

holes (lovely to live in) People build hobbit houses and earthships and the like all the time.

caf 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy

nine_k 6y ago

> Why would anyone want to live like that Think about not being under control of any government of Earth. This is literally a new world, for you to shape. For some people it's worth all the downsides, and more.

karlmdavis 6y ago
Indeed! Instead, you’d get to live under a much smaller, less experienced, and more resource-starved government —- possibly a corporatocracy. Yay!
- SyzygistSix 6y ago
  Control needs a basis from which to operate. I doubt there will be much of one on Mars initially. It would most likely be a direct democracy just because of the reality on the ground.
_jal 6y ago
Instead, you'll have the pleasure of living under what amounts to a ubiquitous-surveillance dictatorship. What, you think surviving under those conditions will work like a Heinlein novel?
- SyzygistSix 6y ago
  What makes you think Mars would be like that more than Earth? Mars colonists can simply turn the cameras off when they want.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Your sponsors can also just stop supporting you when they want. An uprising on Mars can be struck down by waiting for everyone on mars to die.
imtringued 6y ago
Not under control of any government on earth? It's not 2200 yet. Your entire colony will be dependent on earth for the rest of your lifetime. If we had evidence of nitrogen in martian soil and we had already sent machines that increase atmospheric pressure on the planet then you might be justified in thinking that it's just a matter of time. As it is right now you would have to live in an earth sponsored underground shelter and die in there. By defying earth you would just die sooner.

SyzygistSix 6y ago

I think the digging aspect is being worked on. I don't think starting the Boring Co. was a random idea. Although the machines don't run on methane. Yet.