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I see a lot of projects on here where the tagline is that they're written in Rust. Shouldn't that be completely opaque to the user? I don't have any idea what

by ahepp 5y ago

I see a lot of projects on here where the tagline is that they're written in Rust. Shouldn't that be completely opaque to the user? I don't have any idea what programming language most of the software I use is written in. If it's faster or more stable than tmux, shouldn't that be what's advertised, rather than implementation details? Reading the page, what catches my eye is the webasm plugin system (although it's not immediately obvious to me what I'd use that for).

mariusmg 5y ago
>Shouldn't that be completely opaque to the user? No necessarely, because app being written in Rust and Go is actually a feature for the user, it means the entire app is a single executable with a decent runtime performance.
- nodelessness 5y ago
  Not something most developers who may use a tmux equivalent would know about.
  - dataangel 5y ago
    lol no, using tmux is a strong sign you would.
serverholic 5y ago
I think advertising the language is important. Rust is fairly strict which improves stability. It also means that I'm not downloading some bloated electron crap.
KajMagnus 5y ago
> Shouldn't that be completely opaque to the user? That would have been nice indeed. However many languages use lots of memory and are a bit slow, or are security-dangerous like C. It's nice to know, then, that this app likely uses barely any memory at all, and is as fast & keyboard-responsive as it can be, and harder to hack — Rust. (Assuming it is implemented in a good way :- ))
- fwip 5y ago
  The implementation matters a good deal more than the programming language.
  - door101 5y ago
    The programming language is a pretty substantial part of the implementation, though, if not the most substantial one. Rust is qualitatively different than a language like C (in that it is memory safe) or Python (in that it is compiled and fast).
- ahepp 5y ago
  If it's faster or uses less memory, that's something that can be easily measured. If it's more secure, that's harder to measure. But that's not even the tagline, just that it's written in Rust.
  - KajMagnus 5y ago
    I wrote "or are security-dangerous like C" actually, — that's easy to measure, if it's written in C or not (or some other memory unsafe language)
Skunkleton 5y ago
Advertising the language could attract contributors to the project. Especially true for a newish language that is just starting to gain widespread traction.
Arnavion 5y ago
It's people interested in Rust advertising to people interested in Rust. The programming language is as much the point as the program's purpose.
curun1r 5y ago
It depends whether you've been burned by memory safety/data race CVEs in the past. For better or for worse, some people actively search out software written in Rust specifically because the choice to use C/C++ is not opaque to the user.
door101 5y ago
Some would argue that Rust's advantages over C (or other languages) are so great that it constitutes a crucial feature of the software, and that while it doesn't necessarily indicate quality, it makes building quality software substantially easier.
- ahepp 5y ago
  Then shouldn't there be some observable (better yet, measurable) side effects?
  - door101 5y ago
    True — one can certainly write terrible software in Rust, but in my view, being written in Rust is a notable enough aspect to a project to point it out
OhSoHumble 5y ago
It's a technical post on a technical forum filled with technical people. We aren't just users, we're programmers. It makes sense to include broad implementation details in the title.
- ahepp 5y ago
  Maybe a fair point, I guess it's ambiguous because technical people are both the users and developers of terminal multiplexers. I do still question what it means if the coolest thing to say about it is it was written in Rust, whether that's intended for developers or for users
  - emteycz 5y ago
    The coolest thing to say about it is "Terminal Workspace and Multiplexer" which precedes "Written in Rust". What more would you add? I think that's cool enough!
mtrower 5y ago
In addition to what others have posted, it matters if you ever expect to read or modify the source. Assuming my capability requirements are met, I’m going to prefer a program written in a language that I’m comfortable with (such as C or lisp) to a program written in a language foreign to me (such as Go).
ex_amazon_sde 5y ago
I feel like this stuff should be posted in a Rust-specific site, not on HN.
dang 5y ago
I've de-Rusted the title so hopefully the thread can stay on topic (i.e. specific, not generic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20discussion%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...).

by ahepp 5y ago

mariusmg 5y ago

>Shouldn't that be completely opaque to the user? No necessarely, because app being written in Rust and Go is actually a feature for the user, it means the entire app is a single executable with a decent runtime performance.

nodelessness 5y ago
Not something most developers who may use a tmux equivalent would know about.
- dataangel 5y ago
  lol no, using tmux is a strong sign you would.

serverholic 5y ago

I think advertising the language is important. Rust is fairly strict which improves stability. It also means that I'm not downloading some bloated electron crap.

KajMagnus 5y ago

> Shouldn't that be completely opaque to the user? That would have been nice indeed. However many languages use lots of memory and are a bit slow, or are security-dangerous like C. It's nice to know, then, that this app likely uses barely any memory at all, and is as fast & keyboard-responsive as it can be, and harder to hack — Rust. (Assuming it is implemented in a good way :- ))

fwip 5y ago
The implementation matters a good deal more than the programming language.
- door101 5y ago
  The programming language is a pretty substantial part of the implementation, though, if not the most substantial one. Rust is qualitatively different than a language like C (in that it is memory safe) or Python (in that it is compiled and fast).
ahepp 5y ago
If it's faster or uses less memory, that's something that can be easily measured. If it's more secure, that's harder to measure. But that's not even the tagline, just that it's written in Rust.
- KajMagnus 5y ago
  I wrote "or are security-dangerous like C" actually, — that's easy to measure, if it's written in C or not (or some other memory unsafe language)

Skunkleton 5y ago

Advertising the language could attract contributors to the project. Especially true for a newish language that is just starting to gain widespread traction.

Arnavion 5y ago

It's people interested in Rust advertising to people interested in Rust. The programming language is as much the point as the program's purpose.

curun1r 5y ago

It depends whether you've been burned by memory safety/data race CVEs in the past. For better or for worse, some people actively search out software written in Rust specifically because the choice to use C/C++ is not opaque to the user.

door101 5y ago

Some would argue that Rust's advantages over C (or other languages) are so great that it constitutes a crucial feature of the software, and that while it doesn't necessarily indicate quality, it makes building quality software substantially easier.

ahepp 5y ago
Then shouldn't there be some observable (better yet, measurable) side effects?
- door101 5y ago
  True — one can certainly write terrible software in Rust, but in my view, being written in Rust is a notable enough aspect to a project to point it out

OhSoHumble 5y ago

It's a technical post on a technical forum filled with technical people. We aren't just users, we're programmers. It makes sense to include broad implementation details in the title.

ahepp 5y ago
Maybe a fair point, I guess it's ambiguous because technical people are both the users and developers of terminal multiplexers. I do still question what it means if the coolest thing to say about it is it was written in Rust, whether that's intended for developers or for users
- emteycz 5y ago
  The coolest thing to say about it is "Terminal Workspace and Multiplexer" which precedes "Written in Rust". What more would you add? I think that's cool enough!

mtrower 5y ago

In addition to what others have posted, it matters if you ever expect to read or modify the source. Assuming my capability requirements are met, I’m going to prefer a program written in a language that I’m comfortable with (such as C or lisp) to a program written in a language foreign to me (such as Go).

ex_amazon_sde 5y ago

I feel like this stuff should be posted in a Rust-specific site, not on HN.

dang 5y ago

I've de-Rusted the title so hopefully the thread can stay on topic (i.e. specific, not generic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20discussion%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...).