4 ms·

I'm surprised the article says nothing about certifications and or degrees, only work experience. I don't work in Software Engineering but I would have assumed

I'm surprised the article says nothing about certifications and or degrees, only work experience. I don't work in Software Engineering but I would have assumed that - like anywhere else in Germany - a university degree is required more often than abroad. Or am I wrong about that?

leifg 5y ago
For certain visas you need a university degree (for example the job seeking visa). When it comes to finding a job a lot of startups (specifically in Berlin) don't require it (the example that I have from a friend is she worked in customer support in a German startup). A lot of these startups need to communicate in English so being a native English speaker is an advantage. The issue arises if you want to apply for a work visa for any of these positions. Only a certain number of countries allow you to apply for a work visa while being in the country on a tourist visa (US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Japan, South Korea AFAIK (possibly the UK after Brexit)). If you're not from any of these countries you'll have to go back to your home country and apply for a visa there.
k__ 5y ago
Depends on your age and experience, I think. If you're in your early twenties and don't have much experience, it can be tough to get a job and a degree certainly helps. If you're over thirty and have worked for many companies, nobody asks for your degree anymore.
DocTomoe 5y ago
German proverb: What you have written on paper, you can happily carry home. Having degrees is giving you an advantage. Especially for entry-level positions, degrees are relevant to get a foot in the door. Once you advance to mid-level, people tend to ignore certifications and/or degrees - at the corporate job I am now, I didn't even include them in my application, just mentioning them in my CV. If you survived in the job market for a few years, noone questions your capabilities. What is more important later-on are recomendation letters ("Arbeitszeugnisse") from former employers (which they are required by law to give, and as they cannot make them sound negative, they tend to use a system of nice-sounding, but coded messages if you were not a good employee, e.g. "he always had good relationships with his colleagues" means "he did smalltalk all day, but did not work", or "she was always showing sociality" translates to "she's an alcoholic".)
wink 5y ago
Highly depends where you're interviewing. I don't think I've ever shown my CS diploma anywhere before HR wanted a copy after signing the contract. Of course it was on the CV, but I am relatively sure it didn't influence them hiring me or not. (Got hired without CV as well...) There are a ton of positions (especially with larger companies) that "require" a degree, and I don't know how many will skip that, but compared to 10-15y ago I see a lot more "requires a BSc or 3-5y of work experience" or something along the lines.
jillesvangurp 5y ago
They matter only if you are a junior. I've worked with (and hired) Germans that never finished university. But if you don't have a degree, you need to be obviously good at what you do to get hired for good jobs. The reality is that there are lots of not so great software engineers working for not so great salaries in not so great projects. That kind of stuff is hard to hide in a good interview. Supporting people with getting a visa is costly for companies so they tend to do that only with good people. Quality is the main reason to do this.
_petronius 5y ago
Honestly depends on the company -- I have no problem despite the fact that both of my degrees are in the arts, but I also work for a very international company (English is the language we work in, it has a lot of folks in it from nontraditional backgrounds). If you apply to work for a more traditional or more "German" company, you may find that things like the subject your uni degree is in, or formal recommendations from previous employers (Zeugnisse) suddenly matter a lot more.

leifg 5y ago

For certain visas you need a university degree (for example the job seeking visa). When it comes to finding a job a lot of startups (specifically in Berlin) don't require it (the example that I have from a friend is she worked in customer support in a German startup). A lot of these startups need to communicate in English so being a native English speaker is an advantage. The issue arises if you want to apply for a work visa for any of these positions. Only a certain number of countries allow you to apply for a work visa while being in the country on a tourist visa (US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Japan, South Korea AFAIK (possibly the UK after Brexit)). If you're not from any of these countries you'll have to go back to your home country and apply for a visa there.

k__ 5y ago

Depends on your age and experience, I think. If you're in your early twenties and don't have much experience, it can be tough to get a job and a degree certainly helps. If you're over thirty and have worked for many companies, nobody asks for your degree anymore.

DocTomoe 5y ago

German proverb: What you have written on paper, you can happily carry home. Having degrees is giving you an advantage. Especially for entry-level positions, degrees are relevant to get a foot in the door. Once you advance to mid-level, people tend to ignore certifications and/or degrees - at the corporate job I am now, I didn't even include them in my application, just mentioning them in my CV. If you survived in the job market for a few years, noone questions your capabilities. What is more important later-on are recomendation letters ("Arbeitszeugnisse") from former employers (which they are required by law to give, and as they cannot make them sound negative, they tend to use a system of nice-sounding, but coded messages if you were not a good employee, e.g. "he always had good relationships with his colleagues" means "he did smalltalk all day, but did not work", or "she was always showing sociality" translates to "she's an alcoholic".)

wink 5y ago

Highly depends where you're interviewing. I don't think I've ever shown my CS diploma anywhere before HR wanted a copy after signing the contract. Of course it was on the CV, but I am relatively sure it didn't influence them hiring me or not. (Got hired without CV as well...) There are a ton of positions (especially with larger companies) that "require" a degree, and I don't know how many will skip that, but compared to 10-15y ago I see a lot more "requires a BSc or 3-5y of work experience" or something along the lines.

jillesvangurp 5y ago

They matter only if you are a junior. I've worked with (and hired) Germans that never finished university. But if you don't have a degree, you need to be obviously good at what you do to get hired for good jobs. The reality is that there are lots of not so great software engineers working for not so great salaries in not so great projects. That kind of stuff is hard to hide in a good interview. Supporting people with getting a visa is costly for companies so they tend to do that only with good people. Quality is the main reason to do this.

_petronius 5y ago

Honestly depends on the company -- I have no problem despite the fact that both of my degrees are in the arts, but I also work for a very international company (English is the language we work in, it has a lot of folks in it from nontraditional backgrounds). If you apply to work for a more traditional or more "German" company, you may find that things like the subject your uni degree is in, or formal recommendations from previous employers (Zeugnisse) suddenly matter a lot more.