8 ms·

There's some surprising absences in unicode. For instance, while messing around with setting up the i3/Sway bar, I couldn't find symbols for: * WiFi. Really.

There's some surprising absences in unicode. For instance, while messing around with setting up the i3/Sway bar, I couldn't find symbols for: * WiFi. Really. There's U+1F4F6, but it's not exactly the right thing. * Anything to indicate CPU usage, like some sort of microprocessor chip. * Anything to indicate RAM usage. This is curious because for instance U+1F50A and U+1F507 exist, so you'd expect to have a set of such generally useful icons. Plus, it's computer tech. The lack of computer related stuff is odd, given that there's no lack of many things I have no idea what they're good for, such as U+1F574 ("Man in business suit levitating") Edit: would be nice to have unicode support on here. Seems it gets stripped.

legulere 6y ago
It’s not so surprising considering Unicode is about text, not about symbols.
- dale_glass 6y ago
  There's plenty symbols in it. For instance: https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous_symbols_and_pictographs/images.htm https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous...
- saint-loup 6y ago
  There are various Unicode blocks dedicated to symbols. There are cartography symbols, domino tiles, alchemical symbols... There is even a block for "legacy computing". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_block#List_of_blocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_block#List_of_blocks
  - OskarS 6y ago
    My of these is the block dedicated to western musical notation.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Text is symbols. And Unicode in particular has loads of non-letter symbols in it. It's only natural, given that a lot of these often show up in line with regular letters. Think of various paper documents you read, like instruction manuals, which make heavy use of non-letter glyphs in text.
EMM_386 6y ago
> such as U+1F574 ("Man in business suit levitating") It looks like this character made it into Unicode due to the fact that it was part of the Webdings typeface. Given how widespread that was, many of its characters made their way into Unicode. https://codepoints.net/U+1F574 https://codepoints.net/U+1F574 Now what it's original intent was, I'm not sure.
- lorenzfx 6y ago
  See this article for an explanation: https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/06/secret-ska-history-man-business-suit-levitating-emoji-442192.html https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/06/secret-ska-history-man-b...
- donatj 6y ago
  > This character was originally introduced into the Webdings font as an “exclamation mark in the style of the rude boy logo found on records by The Specials". This levitating man was known as Walt Jabsco. - https://emojipedia.org/person-in-suit-levitating/ https://emojipedia.org/person-in-suit-levitating/
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    TIL: there's a Wiki for emoji trivia. I love it! Thank you to whoever bothers with collecting such information.
    - lifthrasiir 6y ago
      Emojipedia is not just an encyclopedia, it is a major contributor to the Unicode emoji process (its editor, Jeremy Burge, is the vice-chair of the Unicode Emoji Subcommittee).
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Wow, I didn't realize that. Thanks! The way the website looks, I wouldn't have guessed it's a serious player.
wodenokoto 6y ago
You are misunderstanding the reasoning behind symbol inclusion in Unicode. It’s not about “what could be handy” but about what is needed to cover character encoding already in broad usage. Japan was early adopter of cellphone internet. One way to save data usage was to compose graphics as characters in a proprietary encoding (specific to the carrier!) Basically, in order to move Japanese handsets of custom encodings and onto Unicode compatible systems, Unicode needs to be able to display not just all the Japanese characters but also the weird graphics that carriers decided to come up with in order to decorate their online services. This is also why there is so much Japanese food characters.
- lxgr 6y ago
  > what is needed to cover character encoding already in broad usage. That isn't true anymore though, is it? At least Emoji seem like a case where inclusion precedes use and noth the other way around.
  - lifthrasiir 6y ago
    Emoji is the sole exception to this rule and then you still need to convince the committee that separate WiFi, CPU or RAM emojis are needed to communicate the intent (say, for example, given there are other computer-related emojis). In fact I do think you can, given they were probably never suggested before [1] except for "wireless" which status is "Prioritization Pending". [1] https://unicode.org/emoji/emoji-requests.html https://unicode.org/emoji/emoji-requests.html
    - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
      Emoji are for communicating to other people. I can’t imagine why you would ever send someone a message with a ram stick in it. OP sounds like they want the icon for a task bar. In that case they can simply import any SVG they want.
      - lifthrasiir 6y ago
        Yeah the OP's arguments wouldn't work: the typical answer would be "use PUA and a custom font" as Powerline symbols do (incidentally, they have been proposed to Unicode [1]). But as a general emoji CPU and RAM can be actually substantially different from any other existing emoji, which is the main concern of the Unicode emoji process. [1] https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19068r-powerline-syms.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19068r-powerline-syms.pdf
BeFlatXIII 6y ago
Has the Tengwar script been added to Unicode yet? For the longest time, that’s been the biggest gap in Unicode that I knew of.
- lifthrasiir 6y ago
  I believe Cirth and Tengwar are just less prioritized, unlike Klingon which was explicitly rejected (due to the non-usage of Klingon speakers at that time). Maybe it just needs a re-submission of the 1997 proposal by Michael Everson.
  - raphlinus 6y ago
    Klingon has a much more complicated history than this. The usage of Klingon is higher than many of the obscure things encoded in Unicode, so that's not the full reason. The real reason is most likely that Paramount considers the Klingon language its intellectual property and has attempted to enforce it[1]. Thus, I believe the official position of the Unicode consortium is that Klingon is written in Latin script but with a Klingon font (ie is basically a simple substitution cipher with a handful of ligatures), which satisfies everybody except for those who want Klingon included in Unicode. ETA: The proposal[2] has been revived recently, and in the committee meeting[3], they're clear that the blocker is legal. [1] https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2016/05/to-boldly-go-where-no-copyright-holder.html https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2016/05/to-boldly-go-where-no-... [2]: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20181-klingon.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20181-klingon.pdf [3]: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20169-script-adhoc-rept.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20169-script-adhoc-rept.pdf
    - lifthrasiir 6y ago
      Ah, thank you for pointers to the revived 2020 proposal (my radar to the L2 register was partially off at that time). I'm not sure that Klingon the script was in broader use at the time of the initial proposal though---there are several constructed scripts that enjoy uses comparable to Klingon's and I don't think they have been well received. Or alternatively, they all actually have a potential to be encoded but only Klingon speakers are enthusiastic enough to pursue.
matheusmoreira 6y ago
Can anyone make a proposal? Would be nice if we could add a general computing symbols category. Maybe one day we won't need icon fonts anymore.
- peterburkimsher 6y ago
  For those who want to write a proposal, check out the Unicode Power Symbol project, who successfully got it added in 9.0. https://unicodepowersymbol.com/ https://unicodepowersymbol.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21689894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21689894 I also discovered 11 Chinese characters for Hakka and Taiwanese, and wrote a proposal for getting those added. They were accepted, but are still waiting for the next batch of CJK Unified Ideographs to be released. https://medium.com/@peterburkimsher/hakka-news-adding-11-unicode-characters-320c78807988 https://medium.com/@peterburkimsher/hakka-news-adding-11-uni...
- ThinkingGuy 6y ago
  Sure. Here's the story of how Alex Schmidt created the bison emoji: https://www.bisonemojipodcast.com/ https://www.bisonemojipodcast.com/
- diydsp 6y ago
  Embedded SVG :)
sva_ 6y ago
I'm not sure if you found a solution to your problem, but in setting up i3/Polybar, I used the "Inconsolata Nerd Font" for such symbols.
GuB-42 6y ago
Another controversial absence is the "external link" symbol, which was rejected. https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2006/06268-ext-link.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2006/06268-ext-link.pdf The reason seems to be that links are not a feature of a text document, they are part of a markup language, and therefore, it should be a feature of that language instead. For HN, AFAIK, they deliberately strip emoji, but most Unicode work fine. ("私はひどい下痢です" should show up correctly)
- akvadrako 6y ago
  This has been rejected several times. I even submitted an updated proposal last year with I think pretty good reasoning. Yet all they said was: > The context for usage is mark-up with links by default. Getting emojis accepted is much easier.
  - marvindanig 6y ago
    Someone needs to design an emoji that doubles as "external link" symbol!
Spooky23 6y ago
Unicode is amazing. It's grown from a character set to the default registry of language and symbols generally.
m-p-3 6y ago
If we could also get some network topology symbols that'd be nice too.
paxys 6y ago
A ton of stuff in the Unicode standard exists for legacy reasons, and would never get approved today. The overall goal is to standardize symbols for communication, not building UIs. Everything you mentioned should be an SVG instead.
- mormegil 6y ago
  I hit exactly the same issue (no wifi symbol in Unicode) when working on my hobby project of train timetables. Some trains offer on-board wifi and it is indicated in the timetable (along with other icons like bicycle transport available, accessibility, etc.). Sure, I can use SVG or custom icon font, but I am definitely doing "communication", not UI.
  - notatoad 6y ago
    i'm not well-versed in the politics of unicode, but it seems like you're looking for use-specific iconography, not symbols that are part of language. there's no standard symbol for "bicycle transport available", or "wifi access available". the three curved lines radiating from a circle image adds some visual flair to your project and can be used as a shorthand if you make it clear what it means, but any symbol you could use there doesn't necessarily convey the same meaning if i use it in my project. contrast that with the symbols in this proposal - the TEXTILE CARE SYMBOL WASHING TUB WITH SEVENTY DEGREES CELSIUS glyph means the same thing no matter where it's used.
WalterBright 6y ago
> I couldn't find symbols for: I can help with that: > WiFi "WiFi" > CPU "CPU" > RAM "RAM" Clear, unambiguous, in common usage.
- paxys 6y ago
  Isn't it great that the English language and Latin script is universally understood?
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    What's the difference between: icon - explanation of the icon in your native language word - explanation of the word in your native language ? Consider that you can type the word into google and it'll define it for you. Do you have any evidence that laundry icons are more universally understood? Good luck finding any place in the world without plenty of signs in latin script, at the very least. Find someone in the world who can use a computer but doesn't know what the word WiFi is, but would recognize an icon for it he'd never seen before.

legulere 6y ago

It’s not so surprising considering Unicode is about text, not about symbols.

dale_glass 6y ago
There's plenty symbols in it. For instance: https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous_symbols_and_pictographs/images.htm https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous...
saint-loup 6y ago
There are various Unicode blocks dedicated to symbols. There are cartography symbols, domino tiles, alchemical symbols... There is even a block for "legacy computing". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_block#List_of_blocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_block#List_of_blocks
- OskarS 6y ago
  My of these is the block dedicated to western musical notation.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Text is symbols. And Unicode in particular has loads of non-letter symbols in it. It's only natural, given that a lot of these often show up in line with regular letters. Think of various paper documents you read, like instruction manuals, which make heavy use of non-letter glyphs in text.

EMM_386 6y ago

> such as U+1F574 ("Man in business suit levitating") It looks like this character made it into Unicode due to the fact that it was part of the Webdings typeface. Given how widespread that was, many of its characters made their way into Unicode. https://codepoints.net/U+1F574 https://codepoints.net/U+1F574 Now what it's original intent was, I'm not sure.

lorenzfx 6y ago
See this article for an explanation: https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/06/secret-ska-history-man-business-suit-levitating-emoji-442192.html https://www.newsweek.com/2016/05/06/secret-ska-history-man-b...
donatj 6y ago
> This character was originally introduced into the Webdings font as an “exclamation mark in the style of the rude boy logo found on records by The Specials". This levitating man was known as Walt Jabsco. - https://emojipedia.org/person-in-suit-levitating/ https://emojipedia.org/person-in-suit-levitating/
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  TIL: there's a Wiki for emoji trivia. I love it! Thank you to whoever bothers with collecting such information.
  - lifthrasiir 6y ago
    Emojipedia is not just an encyclopedia, it is a major contributor to the Unicode emoji process (its editor, Jeremy Burge, is the vice-chair of the Unicode Emoji Subcommittee).
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Wow, I didn't realize that. Thanks! The way the website looks, I wouldn't have guessed it's a serious player.

wodenokoto 6y ago

You are misunderstanding the reasoning behind symbol inclusion in Unicode. It’s not about “what could be handy” but about what is needed to cover character encoding already in broad usage. Japan was early adopter of cellphone internet. One way to save data usage was to compose graphics as characters in a proprietary encoding (specific to the carrier!) Basically, in order to move Japanese handsets of custom encodings and onto Unicode compatible systems, Unicode needs to be able to display not just all the Japanese characters but also the weird graphics that carriers decided to come up with in order to decorate their online services. This is also why there is so much Japanese food characters.

lxgr 6y ago
> what is needed to cover character encoding already in broad usage. That isn't true anymore though, is it? At least Emoji seem like a case where inclusion precedes use and noth the other way around.
- lifthrasiir 6y ago
  Emoji is the sole exception to this rule and then you still need to convince the committee that separate WiFi, CPU or RAM emojis are needed to communicate the intent (say, for example, given there are other computer-related emojis). In fact I do think you can, given they were probably never suggested before [1] except for "wireless" which status is "Prioritization Pending". [1] https://unicode.org/emoji/emoji-requests.html https://unicode.org/emoji/emoji-requests.html
  - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
    Emoji are for communicating to other people. I can’t imagine why you would ever send someone a message with a ram stick in it. OP sounds like they want the icon for a task bar. In that case they can simply import any SVG they want.
    - lifthrasiir 6y ago
      Yeah the OP's arguments wouldn't work: the typical answer would be "use PUA and a custom font" as Powerline symbols do (incidentally, they have been proposed to Unicode [1]). But as a general emoji CPU and RAM can be actually substantially different from any other existing emoji, which is the main concern of the Unicode emoji process. [1] https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19068r-powerline-syms.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19068r-powerline-syms.pdf

BeFlatXIII 6y ago

Has the Tengwar script been added to Unicode yet? For the longest time, that’s been the biggest gap in Unicode that I knew of.

lifthrasiir 6y ago
I believe Cirth and Tengwar are just less prioritized, unlike Klingon which was explicitly rejected (due to the non-usage of Klingon speakers at that time). Maybe it just needs a re-submission of the 1997 proposal by Michael Everson.
- raphlinus 6y ago
  Klingon has a much more complicated history than this. The usage of Klingon is higher than many of the obscure things encoded in Unicode, so that's not the full reason. The real reason is most likely that Paramount considers the Klingon language its intellectual property and has attempted to enforce it[1]. Thus, I believe the official position of the Unicode consortium is that Klingon is written in Latin script but with a Klingon font (ie is basically a simple substitution cipher with a handful of ligatures), which satisfies everybody except for those who want Klingon included in Unicode. ETA: The proposal[2] has been revived recently, and in the committee meeting[3], they're clear that the blocker is legal. [1] https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2016/05/to-boldly-go-where-no-copyright-holder.html https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2016/05/to-boldly-go-where-no-... [2]: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20181-klingon.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20181-klingon.pdf [3]: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20169-script-adhoc-rept.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20169-script-adhoc-rept.pdf
  - lifthrasiir 6y ago
    Ah, thank you for pointers to the revived 2020 proposal (my radar to the L2 register was partially off at that time). I'm not sure that Klingon the script was in broader use at the time of the initial proposal though---there are several constructed scripts that enjoy uses comparable to Klingon's and I don't think they have been well received. Or alternatively, they all actually have a potential to be encoded but only Klingon speakers are enthusiastic enough to pursue.

matheusmoreira 6y ago

Can anyone make a proposal? Would be nice if we could add a general computing symbols category. Maybe one day we won't need icon fonts anymore.

peterburkimsher 6y ago
For those who want to write a proposal, check out the Unicode Power Symbol project, who successfully got it added in 9.0. https://unicodepowersymbol.com/ https://unicodepowersymbol.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21689894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21689894 I also discovered 11 Chinese characters for Hakka and Taiwanese, and wrote a proposal for getting those added. They were accepted, but are still waiting for the next batch of CJK Unified Ideographs to be released. https://medium.com/@peterburkimsher/hakka-news-adding-11-unicode-characters-320c78807988 https://medium.com/@peterburkimsher/hakka-news-adding-11-uni...
ThinkingGuy 6y ago
Sure. Here's the story of how Alex Schmidt created the bison emoji: https://www.bisonemojipodcast.com/ https://www.bisonemojipodcast.com/
diydsp 6y ago
Embedded SVG :)

sva_ 6y ago

I'm not sure if you found a solution to your problem, but in setting up i3/Polybar, I used the "Inconsolata Nerd Font" for such symbols.

GuB-42 6y ago

Another controversial absence is the "external link" symbol, which was rejected. https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2006/06268-ext-link.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2006/06268-ext-link.pdf The reason seems to be that links are not a feature of a text document, they are part of a markup language, and therefore, it should be a feature of that language instead. For HN, AFAIK, they deliberately strip emoji, but most Unicode work fine. ("私はひどい下痢です" should show up correctly)

akvadrako 6y ago
This has been rejected several times. I even submitted an updated proposal last year with I think pretty good reasoning. Yet all they said was: > The context for usage is mark-up with links by default. Getting emojis accepted is much easier.
- marvindanig 6y ago
  Someone needs to design an emoji that doubles as "external link" symbol!

Spooky23 6y ago

Unicode is amazing. It's grown from a character set to the default registry of language and symbols generally.

m-p-3 6y ago

If we could also get some network topology symbols that'd be nice too.

paxys 6y ago

A ton of stuff in the Unicode standard exists for legacy reasons, and would never get approved today. The overall goal is to standardize symbols for communication, not building UIs. Everything you mentioned should be an SVG instead.

mormegil 6y ago
I hit exactly the same issue (no wifi symbol in Unicode) when working on my hobby project of train timetables. Some trains offer on-board wifi and it is indicated in the timetable (along with other icons like bicycle transport available, accessibility, etc.). Sure, I can use SVG or custom icon font, but I am definitely doing "communication", not UI.
- notatoad 6y ago
  i'm not well-versed in the politics of unicode, but it seems like you're looking for use-specific iconography, not symbols that are part of language. there's no standard symbol for "bicycle transport available", or "wifi access available". the three curved lines radiating from a circle image adds some visual flair to your project and can be used as a shorthand if you make it clear what it means, but any symbol you could use there doesn't necessarily convey the same meaning if i use it in my project. contrast that with the symbols in this proposal - the TEXTILE CARE SYMBOL WASHING TUB WITH SEVENTY DEGREES CELSIUS glyph means the same thing no matter where it's used.

WalterBright 6y ago

> I couldn't find symbols for: I can help with that: > WiFi "WiFi" > CPU "CPU" > RAM "RAM" Clear, unambiguous, in common usage.

paxys 6y ago
Isn't it great that the English language and Latin script is universally understood?
- WalterBright 6y ago
  What's the difference between: icon - explanation of the icon in your native language word - explanation of the word in your native language ? Consider that you can type the word into google and it'll define it for you. Do you have any evidence that laundry icons are more universally understood? Good luck finding any place in the world without plenty of signs in latin script, at the very least. Find someone in the world who can use a computer but doesn't know what the word WiFi is, but would recognize an icon for it he'd never seen before.