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I don't use bitcoin but one attraction I see is that it lets you spend your money without anyone else's permission. If you buy something with it, the seller ge

I don't use bitcoin but one attraction I see is that it lets you spend your money without anyone else's permission. If you buy something with it, the seller gets the money without your having to worry about automated fraud checks causing your credit card to be declined, check to be put on hold, etc. It's like cash that way. Wire transfers might be an alternative, but they are only practical for fairly large transactions and involve a lot of bureaucracy. Of course bitcoin (like cash) limits your recourse against the seller, so you have to take that into account. Sometimes though, that is to your advantage when the risk is low enough (small transaction, trusted seller) that the hassle avoidance outweighs the risk.

Ansil849 6y ago
That's a potential use, one of many, but it is not a current widespread use of crypto. Why? Probably because Paypal (despite its many, many faults) works just fine for most people.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
paxys 6y ago
Every bitcoin transaction happening online today is brokered by the same payments processors who decide that your credit card is committing fraud.
- chii 6y ago
  Not if you directly transfer bitcoin to the destination wallet address, without going through a broker or payment processor. This isn't possible with credit card or bank transfers.
Closi 6y ago
Spending money without automated fraud checking, dispute resolution and the ability to do chargeback sounds like a great idea until you think for more than 2 seconds about why those things exist. And I’m not sure why I would want to maintain two currencies anyway, one for small payments where for some reason I don’t want protection, and another when I do want protection. Having to hold multiple currencies dependent on what I want the level of dispute resolution to be sounds like a huge step back. The main risk isn’t that someone wants to reverse a coffee, it’s that their whole wallet gets stolen.
- herbst 6y ago
  One big difference is that if i send someone Crypto they can't spend any more than i have sent them. If i give them my credit card (and they possibly even leak/loose it) i have a far bigger risk for fraud.
  - Closi 6y ago
    So, basically a debit card? Or a credit card with spending limits? In the U.K. with banks like monzo you can also raise/lower the limit instantly via an app. Also the fraud detection algorithms will automatically ask for 2FA on larger transactions or ones that look fraudulent e.t.c.
    - herbst 6y ago
      No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yes there are modern banking solutions like this (we have instant transfers between banks with a comfortable QR scanning app just like google pay here in Switzerland) but this only works in Switzerland. For any international transfers we have to fall back to Swift transfers (slow) or credit cards (mentioned issue).
      - Closi 6y ago
        > No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yeah you can do that exactly with a debit card - just ask your bank to remove the spend limit and give you zero overdraft. Once you realise effectively you are describing a debit card with less options then suddenly it doesn't look like such a good feature.
        herbst 6y ago
        What kind of payment gateway are we even talking about? Are you describing "Sofort/Klarna"? I am not aware of any europe wide/international payment providers based on your bank account that does what you describe without basing on SWIFT and therefore being everything but realtime.
herbst 6y ago
Over easter banking was essentially closed for 5 days due to holidays. A system that simply shuts down all business for 5 days feels so weird & dated So its not only about permissions and burocracy but also that their system is old and sucks.

Ansil849 6y ago

That's a potential use, one of many, but it is not a current widespread use of crypto. Why? Probably because Paypal (despite its many, many faults) works just fine for most people.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

paxys 6y ago

Every bitcoin transaction happening online today is brokered by the same payments processors who decide that your credit card is committing fraud.

chii 6y ago
Not if you directly transfer bitcoin to the destination wallet address, without going through a broker or payment processor. This isn't possible with credit card or bank transfers.

Closi 6y ago

Spending money without automated fraud checking, dispute resolution and the ability to do chargeback sounds like a great idea until you think for more than 2 seconds about why those things exist. And I’m not sure why I would want to maintain two currencies anyway, one for small payments where for some reason I don’t want protection, and another when I do want protection. Having to hold multiple currencies dependent on what I want the level of dispute resolution to be sounds like a huge step back. The main risk isn’t that someone wants to reverse a coffee, it’s that their whole wallet gets stolen.

herbst 6y ago
One big difference is that if i send someone Crypto they can't spend any more than i have sent them. If i give them my credit card (and they possibly even leak/loose it) i have a far bigger risk for fraud.
- Closi 6y ago
  So, basically a debit card? Or a credit card with spending limits? In the U.K. with banks like monzo you can also raise/lower the limit instantly via an app. Also the fraud detection algorithms will automatically ask for 2FA on larger transactions or ones that look fraudulent e.t.c.
  - herbst 6y ago
    No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yes there are modern banking solutions like this (we have instant transfers between banks with a comfortable QR scanning app just like google pay here in Switzerland) but this only works in Switzerland. For any international transfers we have to fall back to Swift transfers (slow) or credit cards (mentioned issue).
    - Closi 6y ago
      > No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yeah you can do that exactly with a debit card - just ask your bank to remove the spend limit and give you zero overdraft. Once you realise effectively you are describing a debit card with less options then suddenly it doesn't look like such a good feature.
      - herbst 6y ago
        What kind of payment gateway are we even talking about? Are you describing "Sofort/Klarna"? I am not aware of any europe wide/international payment providers based on your bank account that does what you describe without basing on SWIFT and therefore being everything but realtime.

herbst 6y ago

Over easter banking was essentially closed for 5 days due to holidays. A system that simply shuts down all business for 5 days feels so weird & dated So its not only about permissions and burocracy but also that their system is old and sucks.