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As a casual observer I see the cryptocurrency space only seriously used by two groups of people: those who want to buy goods/services which are controlled in th

As a casual observer I see the cryptocurrency space only seriously used by two groups of people: those who want to buy goods/services which are controlled in their or the seller's jurisdiction and so need a bit more anonymity than Paypal; and people who run ICO and more recently NFT swindles. I have yet to see a widespread other usage of cryptocurrency.

throwaway81523 6y ago
I don't use bitcoin but one attraction I see is that it lets you spend your money without anyone else's permission. If you buy something with it, the seller gets the money without your having to worry about automated fraud checks causing your credit card to be declined, check to be put on hold, etc. It's like cash that way. Wire transfers might be an alternative, but they are only practical for fairly large transactions and involve a lot of bureaucracy. Of course bitcoin (like cash) limits your recourse against the seller, so you have to take that into account. Sometimes though, that is to your advantage when the risk is low enough (small transaction, trusted seller) that the hassle avoidance outweighs the risk.
- Ansil849 6y ago
  That's a potential use, one of many, but it is not a current widespread use of crypto. Why? Probably because Paypal (despite its many, many faults) works just fine for most people.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- paxys 6y ago
  Every bitcoin transaction happening online today is brokered by the same payments processors who decide that your credit card is committing fraud.
  - chii 6y ago
    Not if you directly transfer bitcoin to the destination wallet address, without going through a broker or payment processor. This isn't possible with credit card or bank transfers.
- Closi 6y ago
  Spending money without automated fraud checking, dispute resolution and the ability to do chargeback sounds like a great idea until you think for more than 2 seconds about why those things exist. And I’m not sure why I would want to maintain two currencies anyway, one for small payments where for some reason I don’t want protection, and another when I do want protection. Having to hold multiple currencies dependent on what I want the level of dispute resolution to be sounds like a huge step back. The main risk isn’t that someone wants to reverse a coffee, it’s that their whole wallet gets stolen.
  - herbst 6y ago
    One big difference is that if i send someone Crypto they can't spend any more than i have sent them. If i give them my credit card (and they possibly even leak/loose it) i have a far bigger risk for fraud.
    - Closi 6y ago
      So, basically a debit card? Or a credit card with spending limits? In the U.K. with banks like monzo you can also raise/lower the limit instantly via an app. Also the fraud detection algorithms will automatically ask for 2FA on larger transactions or ones that look fraudulent e.t.c.
      - herbst 6y ago
        No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yes there are modern banking solutions like this (we have instant transfers between banks with a comfortable QR scanning app just like google pay here in Switzerland) but this only works in Switzerland. For any international transfers we have to fall back to Swift transfers (slow) or credit cards (mentioned issue).
        Closi 6y ago
        > No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yeah you can do that exactly with a debit card - just ask your bank to remove the spend limit and give you zero overdraft. Once you realise effectively you are describing a debit card with less options then suddenly it doesn't look like such a good feature.
- herbst 6y ago
  Over easter banking was essentially closed for 5 days due to holidays. A system that simply shuts down all business for 5 days feels so weird & dated So its not only about permissions and burocracy but also that their system is old and sucks.
zbraniecki 6y ago
Read about Celo or Stellar. I'm not trying to hype you up, but I think that there's a lot of utility happening outside of your bubble. Some of that happens in countries you don't live in, other use cases appear between banking systems which remain opaque to you. That's not the same as "no utility".
drak0n1c 6y ago
One use case is Hedera Hashgraph, used by an NGO that built a decentralized early warning system for airstrikes in Syria [1]. There are many other large corporate users of the technology for decentralized consensus purposes. Crypto has already moved beyond currency/collectibles. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNE7oTJcOnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNE7oTJcOnE https://hedera.com/consensus-service https://hedera.com/consensus-service
dopidopHN 6y ago
Finance is slowly moving in to get a share of the pie. Meaning: making money somehow. See: Derivative based on bitcoin/ETH. It's not a counterpoint, just a third category.
herbst 6y ago
I don't know why people keep telling this. In reality most people who get into Bitcoin do this because they heard all those amazing stories of getting rich and when they check they see the value is rising, rising and still rising. I doubt the far majority does even know what an ICO or NFT is and most of them likely still have and use their PayPal daily. There is really nothing shady about protecting your money from failing currencies by investing in something that works right now.

throwaway81523 6y ago

I don't use bitcoin but one attraction I see is that it lets you spend your money without anyone else's permission. If you buy something with it, the seller gets the money without your having to worry about automated fraud checks causing your credit card to be declined, check to be put on hold, etc. It's like cash that way. Wire transfers might be an alternative, but they are only practical for fairly large transactions and involve a lot of bureaucracy. Of course bitcoin (like cash) limits your recourse against the seller, so you have to take that into account. Sometimes though, that is to your advantage when the risk is low enough (small transaction, trusted seller) that the hassle avoidance outweighs the risk.

Ansil849 6y ago
That's a potential use, one of many, but it is not a current widespread use of crypto. Why? Probably because Paypal (despite its many, many faults) works just fine for most people.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
paxys 6y ago
Every bitcoin transaction happening online today is brokered by the same payments processors who decide that your credit card is committing fraud.
- chii 6y ago
  Not if you directly transfer bitcoin to the destination wallet address, without going through a broker or payment processor. This isn't possible with credit card or bank transfers.
Closi 6y ago
Spending money without automated fraud checking, dispute resolution and the ability to do chargeback sounds like a great idea until you think for more than 2 seconds about why those things exist. And I’m not sure why I would want to maintain two currencies anyway, one for small payments where for some reason I don’t want protection, and another when I do want protection. Having to hold multiple currencies dependent on what I want the level of dispute resolution to be sounds like a huge step back. The main risk isn’t that someone wants to reverse a coffee, it’s that their whole wallet gets stolen.
- herbst 6y ago
  One big difference is that if i send someone Crypto they can't spend any more than i have sent them. If i give them my credit card (and they possibly even leak/loose it) i have a far bigger risk for fraud.
  - Closi 6y ago
    So, basically a debit card? Or a credit card with spending limits? In the U.K. with banks like monzo you can also raise/lower the limit instantly via an app. Also the fraud detection algorithms will automatically ask for 2FA on larger transactions or ones that look fraudulent e.t.c.
    - herbst 6y ago
      No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yes there are modern banking solutions like this (we have instant transfers between banks with a comfortable QR scanning app just like google pay here in Switzerland) but this only works in Switzerland. For any international transfers we have to fall back to Swift transfers (slow) or credit cards (mentioned issue).
      - Closi 6y ago
        > No not at all. No limits, actually only spending the exact amount with no way of spending more. Yeah you can do that exactly with a debit card - just ask your bank to remove the spend limit and give you zero overdraft. Once you realise effectively you are describing a debit card with less options then suddenly it doesn't look like such a good feature.
herbst 6y ago
Over easter banking was essentially closed for 5 days due to holidays. A system that simply shuts down all business for 5 days feels so weird & dated So its not only about permissions and burocracy but also that their system is old and sucks.

zbraniecki 6y ago

Read about Celo or Stellar. I'm not trying to hype you up, but I think that there's a lot of utility happening outside of your bubble. Some of that happens in countries you don't live in, other use cases appear between banking systems which remain opaque to you. That's not the same as "no utility".

drak0n1c 6y ago

One use case is Hedera Hashgraph, used by an NGO that built a decentralized early warning system for airstrikes in Syria [1]. There are many other large corporate users of the technology for decentralized consensus purposes. Crypto has already moved beyond currency/collectibles. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNE7oTJcOnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNE7oTJcOnE https://hedera.com/consensus-service https://hedera.com/consensus-service

dopidopHN 6y ago

Finance is slowly moving in to get a share of the pie. Meaning: making money somehow. See: Derivative based on bitcoin/ETH. It's not a counterpoint, just a third category.

herbst 6y ago

I don't know why people keep telling this. In reality most people who get into Bitcoin do this because they heard all those amazing stories of getting rich and when they check they see the value is rising, rising and still rising. I doubt the far majority does even know what an ICO or NFT is and most of them likely still have and use their PayPal daily. There is really nothing shady about protecting your money from failing currencies by investing in something that works right now.