4 ms·

Judging by the performance/UI catastrophe of Outlook, Teams, Windows Terminal and the rest of Office, Microsoft has already stopped writing apps for Windows. L

Judging by the performance/UI catastrophe of Outlook, Teams, Windows Terminal and the rest of Office, Microsoft has already stopped writing apps for Windows. Look at them, eating their own dog food.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I believe Microsoft is expected to replace Outlook with a web app-based version in the next major release. Google Chrome is the new Microsoft development platform, it seems.
- jraph 6y ago
  This would allow them to run Outlook natively in EdgeOS, their fork of ChromeOS, in which the default search engine, Bingle, is a proxy to Google Search with nice backgrounds. (all of this comment completely fictional).
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  I sure hope they improve the searching, conversation merging (realistically non-merging) and RSS support, but something tells me they won't.
sandyarmstrong 6y ago
Hold up, what's your beef with Windows Terminal? I've really been enjoying it!
- weakfish 6y ago
  Same, it's a joy to use.
- swest 6y ago
  Agreed! It's the only terminal I can find that both respects my color settings and runs tmux well.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  My judgement of Windows Terminal might have been unfair, but it has its annoyances. - Sometimes the preferences just decide to go through the "open as a json file" path - I don't know if it's my settings or what, but in WSL2/Ubuntu 20.04 I keep getting into a state where my background is black but lines fill in white. I've used the same .bashrc for a decade without that issue. - The copy/paste UI is different both from normal Linux interfaces, from CMD, and from the Windows standard. - As far as I can see, no support for USB CDC devices either via WSL2 or through Windows itself. There's no reason I should need PuTTY still to access a usb-serial console.
  - sandyarmstrong 6y ago
    Fair criticisms! Personally I'm thrilled to finally have a good terminal experience on Windows. The copy/paste behavior is very comfortable to me, given the similarity to gnome-terminal. And to be honest I never really got comfortable with CMD's behavior. I don't use WSL itself much, so I can't comment on those bugs except to say I hope you find fixes. I've ended up doing a lot of PowerShell for work lately, so I jotted down a guide for myself for getting the terminal to behave the way I like, if it's useful to anyone: https://gist.github.com/sandyarmstrong/8b48d7dd0cb01c63cabc6b7db8d8ac10 https://gist.github.com/sandyarmstrong/8b48d7dd0cb01c63cabc6...
- pxc 6y ago
  Same. I am not a Windows person and never have been, but Windows Terminal is clearly lovingly maintained and already much, much better than previous terminal emulator offerings for Windows. I don't particularly wish I had it on Linux, but it's already my go-to when I have to use Windows for a bit, and I think it's an impressive piece of software.
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    cmder [0] is great. When I was forced to use Windows, a good terminal emulator was the first thing I looked for. The trouble is most Windows users don't know what a terminal emulator is or that anything better is possible. But it has been possible for a long time. [0] https://cmder.net/ https://cmder.net/
    - pxc 6y ago
      Cmder used to be my go-to for the times I had to use Windows before my most recent attempts which came after WSL, PowerShell Core, Windows Terminal, and the whole new ecosystem Microsoft seems to be invested in building around the command line. I don't remember any specific complaints about it except that configuration (if you wanted to customize it— defaults were quite good) options were kinda overwhelming. At the same time, I don't have any interest in going back to it after using Windows Terminal for a while. I'd be curious about your first impressions of Windows Terminal as a more recent cmder user, if you still have a Windows VM lying around.
- distances 6y ago
  Windows Terminal has a very noticeable lag when typing. To me that makes it completely unusable. I'm using this other default WSL shell app -- I don't actually know what it's called, just says "Ubuntu" for Ubuntu WSL installation.
  - 2ion 6y ago
    Instantaneous for me. But I'm already looking forward to running kitty anyhow.
xnyan 6y ago
>...Windows Terminal... One of these things is most certainly not like the other. I'm not saying your experience is wrong, just that the general opinion of Windows Terminal is quite positive and can't really be lumped in with the likes of Teams and Outlook.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  Yeah, I might not be being fair about Windows terminal. I get into my issues with it above, but I was also a very happy Cygwin/MinTTY user so my standards might be warped.
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    I didn't realise quite how much I hated Cygwin default fonts until I installed Windows Terminal.
dartharva 6y ago
I'm not aware of any "performance/UI catastrophe" of any of the apps listed above, any context? Sure, Outlook and Teams have less than ideal UX, but the "rest of Office" is pretty good imo.

Judging by the performance/UI catastrophe of Outlook, Teams, Windows Terminal and the rest of Office, Microsoft has already stopped writing apps for Windows. Look at them, eating their own dog food.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

I believe Microsoft is expected to replace Outlook with a web app-based version in the next major release. Google Chrome is the new Microsoft development platform, it seems.

jraph 6y ago
This would allow them to run Outlook natively in EdgeOS, their fork of ChromeOS, in which the default search engine, Bingle, is a proxy to Google Search with nice backgrounds. (all of this comment completely fictional).
InitialLastName 6y ago
I sure hope they improve the searching, conversation merging (realistically non-merging) and RSS support, but something tells me they won't.

sandyarmstrong 6y ago

Hold up, what's your beef with Windows Terminal? I've really been enjoying it!

weakfish 6y ago
Same, it's a joy to use.
swest 6y ago
Agreed! It's the only terminal I can find that both respects my color settings and runs tmux well.
InitialLastName 6y ago
My judgement of Windows Terminal might have been unfair, but it has its annoyances. - Sometimes the preferences just decide to go through the "open as a json file" path - I don't know if it's my settings or what, but in WSL2/Ubuntu 20.04 I keep getting into a state where my background is black but lines fill in white. I've used the same .bashrc for a decade without that issue. - The copy/paste UI is different both from normal Linux interfaces, from CMD, and from the Windows standard. - As far as I can see, no support for USB CDC devices either via WSL2 or through Windows itself. There's no reason I should need PuTTY still to access a usb-serial console.
- sandyarmstrong 6y ago
  Fair criticisms! Personally I'm thrilled to finally have a good terminal experience on Windows. The copy/paste behavior is very comfortable to me, given the similarity to gnome-terminal. And to be honest I never really got comfortable with CMD's behavior. I don't use WSL itself much, so I can't comment on those bugs except to say I hope you find fixes. I've ended up doing a lot of PowerShell for work lately, so I jotted down a guide for myself for getting the terminal to behave the way I like, if it's useful to anyone: https://gist.github.com/sandyarmstrong/8b48d7dd0cb01c63cabc6b7db8d8ac10 https://gist.github.com/sandyarmstrong/8b48d7dd0cb01c63cabc6...
pxc 6y ago
Same. I am not a Windows person and never have been, but Windows Terminal is clearly lovingly maintained and already much, much better than previous terminal emulator offerings for Windows. I don't particularly wish I had it on Linux, but it's already my go-to when I have to use Windows for a bit, and I think it's an impressive piece of software.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  cmder [0] is great. When I was forced to use Windows, a good terminal emulator was the first thing I looked for. The trouble is most Windows users don't know what a terminal emulator is or that anything better is possible. But it has been possible for a long time. [0] https://cmder.net/ https://cmder.net/
  - pxc 6y ago
    Cmder used to be my go-to for the times I had to use Windows before my most recent attempts which came after WSL, PowerShell Core, Windows Terminal, and the whole new ecosystem Microsoft seems to be invested in building around the command line. I don't remember any specific complaints about it except that configuration (if you wanted to customize it— defaults were quite good) options were kinda overwhelming. At the same time, I don't have any interest in going back to it after using Windows Terminal for a while. I'd be curious about your first impressions of Windows Terminal as a more recent cmder user, if you still have a Windows VM lying around.
distances 6y ago
Windows Terminal has a very noticeable lag when typing. To me that makes it completely unusable. I'm using this other default WSL shell app -- I don't actually know what it's called, just says "Ubuntu" for Ubuntu WSL installation.
- 2ion 6y ago
  Instantaneous for me. But I'm already looking forward to running kitty anyhow.

xnyan 6y ago

>...Windows Terminal... One of these things is most certainly not like the other. I'm not saying your experience is wrong, just that the general opinion of Windows Terminal is quite positive and can't really be lumped in with the likes of Teams and Outlook.

InitialLastName 6y ago
Yeah, I might not be being fair about Windows terminal. I get into my issues with it above, but I was also a very happy Cygwin/MinTTY user so my standards might be warped.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  I didn't realise quite how much I hated Cygwin default fonts until I installed Windows Terminal.

dartharva 6y ago

I'm not aware of any "performance/UI catastrophe" of any of the apps listed above, any context? Sure, Outlook and Teams have less than ideal UX, but the "rest of Office" is pretty good imo.