5 ms·

>employee forgetting the nature of the relationship in the heat of the moment Curious to learn others' experiences, but I've never seen this in my career, ever

by pyjug 5y ago

>employee forgetting the nature of the relationship in the heat of the moment Curious to learn others' experiences, but I've never seen this in my career, ever. I've seen _peers_ yell at each other, but never seen an employee slip "out of character" with their superiors, at least publicly. And if it isn't happening publicly, there's no psychological safety, is there? Most people (including myself) have been conditioned to bring their "work self" to work, not their "true self". As such, there's very little chance of "forgetting the nature of the relationship" even in heated moments.

MattGaiser 5y ago
In my own case it is getting caught up in a discussion and pressing further than my strategic self would. It is as simple as stating "this is going to break" when I would usually do a more muted and subtle "I am not sure that this will work." I am not really one to challenge all that directly normally. But sometimes that slips.
wayoutthere 5y ago
So context here, I’m transgender — but transition was always about bringing 100% of myself to the table at all times. I similarly had my “work self” and “true self” — but keeping them separate was impossible when in that identity-less state a lot of trans people experience mid-transition. So when I was reestablishing my personal identity in my late 20s, I just never made a separate “work self”, and it’s been a deliberate decision. I regularly talk openly with my superiors and make it known that I’m very opinionated but I’m also fallible and open to learning from my mistakes. This kind of openness and trust is absolutely essential at the executive level; the real secret is that none of us really knows what we’re doing and we’re all making it up as we go too. Doing this a few times with the right people will help you learn when asking questions is helpful and when you should get out of the way and follow orders. A good leader has the level of humility to know they’re not always right. In fact, this ability to “fight back” effectively is what gets you promoted above a line manager level. And in my opinion is why white men are so overrepresented in senior levels of companies: the psychological safety is there for them in the rest of their lives so they can have it at work, and it’s not there for others so it’s a lot harder to build the muscle on the job if you’re always on guard at home.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pyjug 5y ago
  > I just never made a separate “work self”, and it’s been a deliberate decision This is amazing self-awareness. I wish I had it earlier in my career. >And in my opinion is why white men are so overrepresented in senior levels of companies: the psychological safety is there for them in the rest of their lives This is interesting, but I don't entirely agree. I have seen both sides as an Indian male who has worked both in India (privilege) and SV (no privilege). It's not a matter of "fighting back" or "being open", it's just in-group mechanics at work. There is a tacit understanding among people in positions of power about who is the "in-group" that doesn't need to be expressed or acknowledged even. For example, in India, even as a junior engineer I would be invited to important meetings whereas more experienced female engineers wouldn't. If I'd simply shown up and done the bare minimum, I would have quickly risen up the ranks, IMO. I had the exact opposite experience in SV, being seen as the "out-group" of the "worker bee" class by default.
  - tolbish 5y ago
    Aren't you proving their point my admitting you're not part of the in-group by default in America?
    - pyjug 5y ago
      Sorry if I wasn't clear - GP's thesis was that white men are overrepresented in senior positions _because_ they can more easily "fight back" and "be open" than others. In other words, they still believe in meritocracy, it's just that white men are afforded the chance to be more meritorious. I'm disputing that thesis based on my experience. You don't need to be vulnerable or "be open" at all - you just need to be part of the in-group. I know "Senior Director of Engineering" who had no clue what the hell was going on. They never spoke up in meetings, or did anything useful at all - it was clear to everyone they added no value whatsoever. Turns out they were just floating from startup to startup moving up in seniority in the process. Presumably, nobody bothered to question them during the interview process as it was assumed they were "competent" based on their background and past positions.
Aeolun 5y ago
Ah, while I may not forget the nature of the relationship, which sort of tempers the whole deal, I’ve definitely publicly lost patience with my boss. It was actually kind of interesting, since I thought as you did before that.

by pyjug 5y ago

MattGaiser 5y ago

In my own case it is getting caught up in a discussion and pressing further than my strategic self would. It is as simple as stating "this is going to break" when I would usually do a more muted and subtle "I am not sure that this will work." I am not really one to challenge all that directly normally. But sometimes that slips.

wayoutthere 5y ago

So context here, I’m transgender — but transition was always about bringing 100% of myself to the table at all times. I similarly had my “work self” and “true self” — but keeping them separate was impossible when in that identity-less state a lot of trans people experience mid-transition. So when I was reestablishing my personal identity in my late 20s, I just never made a separate “work self”, and it’s been a deliberate decision. I regularly talk openly with my superiors and make it known that I’m very opinionated but I’m also fallible and open to learning from my mistakes. This kind of openness and trust is absolutely essential at the executive level; the real secret is that none of us really knows what we’re doing and we’re all making it up as we go too. Doing this a few times with the right people will help you learn when asking questions is helpful and when you should get out of the way and follow orders. A good leader has the level of humility to know they’re not always right. In fact, this ability to “fight back” effectively is what gets you promoted above a line manager level. And in my opinion is why white men are so overrepresented in senior levels of companies: the psychological safety is there for them in the rest of their lives so they can have it at work, and it’s not there for others so it’s a lot harder to build the muscle on the job if you’re always on guard at home.

deleted 5y ago
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pyjug 5y ago
> I just never made a separate “work self”, and it’s been a deliberate decision This is amazing self-awareness. I wish I had it earlier in my career. >And in my opinion is why white men are so overrepresented in senior levels of companies: the psychological safety is there for them in the rest of their lives This is interesting, but I don't entirely agree. I have seen both sides as an Indian male who has worked both in India (privilege) and SV (no privilege). It's not a matter of "fighting back" or "being open", it's just in-group mechanics at work. There is a tacit understanding among people in positions of power about who is the "in-group" that doesn't need to be expressed or acknowledged even. For example, in India, even as a junior engineer I would be invited to important meetings whereas more experienced female engineers wouldn't. If I'd simply shown up and done the bare minimum, I would have quickly risen up the ranks, IMO. I had the exact opposite experience in SV, being seen as the "out-group" of the "worker bee" class by default.
- tolbish 5y ago
  Aren't you proving their point my admitting you're not part of the in-group by default in America?
  - pyjug 5y ago
    Sorry if I wasn't clear - GP's thesis was that white men are overrepresented in senior positions _because_ they can more easily "fight back" and "be open" than others. In other words, they still believe in meritocracy, it's just that white men are afforded the chance to be more meritorious. I'm disputing that thesis based on my experience. You don't need to be vulnerable or "be open" at all - you just need to be part of the in-group. I know "Senior Director of Engineering" who had no clue what the hell was going on. They never spoke up in meetings, or did anything useful at all - it was clear to everyone they added no value whatsoever. Turns out they were just floating from startup to startup moving up in seniority in the process. Presumably, nobody bothered to question them during the interview process as it was assumed they were "competent" based on their background and past positions.

Aeolun 5y ago

Ah, while I may not forget the nature of the relationship, which sort of tempers the whole deal, I’ve definitely publicly lost patience with my boss. It was actually kind of interesting, since I thought as you did before that.