4 ms·

> Example of reverse is Poland. There is very little which could shake this country, so united in single culture, single ethnicity and single religion. It total

by b0rsuk 5y ago

> Example of reverse is Poland. There is very little which could shake this country, so united in single culture, single ethnicity and single religion. It totally wasn't that way before post-1945 population transfers (ethnic cleansing). There are two Polands since at least 2015. The right-winged, covertly pro-Russian, nationalist Poland, and the pro-EU Poland. The ruling party is using divide&conquer strategy on its own people (as opposed to on enemies, as practiced by ancient Romans).

anovikov 5y ago
Isn't this what a well-functioning democracy supposed to be? And, you can't be a Catholic and pro-Russian at same time.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >And, you can't be a Catholic and pro-Russian at same time. You'd be surprised...
- klibertp 5y ago
  > And, you can't be a Catholic and pro-Russian at same time. It's more being anti-EU than pro-Russian, but the geopolitics of Poland are brutal enough that these are both almost one and the same. And being a Catholic, at least of the variety we have here, pretty much requires you to be anti-EU. The effect is that, the warlike rethoric notwisthstanding, the right-wing Catholic nationalists are working hard to benefit Russia. I think this is where the word "covertly" comes from in the GP.
  - anovikov 5y ago
    That's fine. It's the same as to say, claim that Brexiters are "covertly pro-Russian", and it's fine when half the people are against EU, coz if everyone was thinking the same, it's same as no one thinking at all.
    - b0rsuk 5y ago
      Great Britain is an island. It's not between Germany and Russia. If you're a country between powerful neighbors with history of waging wars on you, you either need to be very powerful, or you need an alliance. Poland is far from powerful. It's not going to get powerful in the foreseeable future. Therefore it needs an alliance.
- b0rsuk 5y ago
  1. Polarization among politicians is normal. Political polarization in the society, where family members often don't talk to each other because of opposing political views, is very unhealthy. Most people on either side of the political divide don't read each others' media. People don't disagree, people hate each other. 2. Of course you can. Church hierarchs in Poland are very conservative and often pro-Russian. https://arbinfo.pl/skad-arcybiskup-jedraszewski-wzial-pomysl-zeby-nazwac-lgbt-zaraza/ https://arbinfo.pl/skad-arcybiskup-jedraszewski-wzial-pomysl... * 2007 - "Homosexuality - the plague of 21 century", a conference in Sankt Petersburg, Russia, attended by Protoiereus Aleksandr Grigoriew * 2012 - patriarch Ciril (former KGB agent, codename: Michajłow/Mikhailov) meets Polish archbishop Józef Michalik * 2013 - Polish Church starts a campaign against "gender", by the Russian playbook. * 2015 - archbishop Jędraszewski uses the word "plague" to describe homosexuals, women, and the liberal left. * 2019 - the archbishop calls the LGBT movement "plague". Tadeusz Rydzyk has been running a pro-Russian "catholic" radio station for a few decades now. The initial 10000 Swiss franks for the radio mast came from a mystic (Vassula Ryden) who keeps saying Russia will be elevated by God and will rule other nations. Russian diplomats showed up on the radio's 8th anniversary. The radio has transmitters in Ural and operates on frequencies used by the Russian army. Tadeusz Rydzyk is de facto the head of Polish Church. Rydzyk is notorious for criticizing the West. Grzegorz Rzeczkowski has recently written a book "Katastrofa Posmoleńska", about how the plane crash in 2010 was used to sow dissent and divide. One of the major points of contention was a catholic cross illegally placed in front of the presidential palace to honor the dead. There were pilgrimages, pious crowds, angry people insulting the new president, etc. Ordo Iuris is a para-legal branch of the Brasilian sect TFP. It successfully campaigns for strict law based on catholic orthodoxy - for example abortion punishable with jail, next up: no divorces. Attorney General Zbigniew Ziobro supports it. It has support from other politicians, like Grzegorz Braun and Krzysztof Bosak (his wife is in OI). That it's not "real" catholicism doesn't matter, because the society at large can't tell the difference. The resemblance is where their power comes from. Also, the whole Konfederacja Targowicka was highly conservative, nationalist, catholic and pro-Russian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targowica_Confederation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targowica_Confederation

by b0rsuk 5y ago

anovikov 5y ago

Isn't this what a well-functioning democracy supposed to be? And, you can't be a Catholic and pro-Russian at same time.

coldtea 5y ago
>And, you can't be a Catholic and pro-Russian at same time. You'd be surprised...
klibertp 5y ago
> And, you can't be a Catholic and pro-Russian at same time. It's more being anti-EU than pro-Russian, but the geopolitics of Poland are brutal enough that these are both almost one and the same. And being a Catholic, at least of the variety we have here, pretty much requires you to be anti-EU. The effect is that, the warlike rethoric notwisthstanding, the right-wing Catholic nationalists are working hard to benefit Russia. I think this is where the word "covertly" comes from in the GP.
- anovikov 5y ago
  That's fine. It's the same as to say, claim that Brexiters are "covertly pro-Russian", and it's fine when half the people are against EU, coz if everyone was thinking the same, it's same as no one thinking at all.
  - b0rsuk 5y ago
    Great Britain is an island. It's not between Germany and Russia. If you're a country between powerful neighbors with history of waging wars on you, you either need to be very powerful, or you need an alliance. Poland is far from powerful. It's not going to get powerful in the foreseeable future. Therefore it needs an alliance.
b0rsuk 5y ago
1. Polarization among politicians is normal. Political polarization in the society, where family members often don't talk to each other because of opposing political views, is very unhealthy. Most people on either side of the political divide don't read each others' media. People don't disagree, people hate each other. 2. Of course you can. Church hierarchs in Poland are very conservative and often pro-Russian. https://arbinfo.pl/skad-arcybiskup-jedraszewski-wzial-pomysl-zeby-nazwac-lgbt-zaraza/ https://arbinfo.pl/skad-arcybiskup-jedraszewski-wzial-pomysl... * 2007 - "Homosexuality - the plague of 21 century", a conference in Sankt Petersburg, Russia, attended by Protoiereus Aleksandr Grigoriew * 2012 - patriarch Ciril (former KGB agent, codename: Michajłow/Mikhailov) meets Polish archbishop Józef Michalik * 2013 - Polish Church starts a campaign against "gender", by the Russian playbook. * 2015 - archbishop Jędraszewski uses the word "plague" to describe homosexuals, women, and the liberal left. * 2019 - the archbishop calls the LGBT movement "plague". Tadeusz Rydzyk has been running a pro-Russian "catholic" radio station for a few decades now. The initial 10000 Swiss franks for the radio mast came from a mystic (Vassula Ryden) who keeps saying Russia will be elevated by God and will rule other nations. Russian diplomats showed up on the radio's 8th anniversary. The radio has transmitters in Ural and operates on frequencies used by the Russian army. Tadeusz Rydzyk is de facto the head of Polish Church. Rydzyk is notorious for criticizing the West. Grzegorz Rzeczkowski has recently written a book "Katastrofa Posmoleńska", about how the plane crash in 2010 was used to sow dissent and divide. One of the major points of contention was a catholic cross illegally placed in front of the presidential palace to honor the dead. There were pilgrimages, pious crowds, angry people insulting the new president, etc. Ordo Iuris is a para-legal branch of the Brasilian sect TFP. It successfully campaigns for strict law based on catholic orthodoxy - for example abortion punishable with jail, next up: no divorces. Attorney General Zbigniew Ziobro supports it. It has support from other politicians, like Grzegorz Braun and Krzysztof Bosak (his wife is in OI). That it's not "real" catholicism doesn't matter, because the society at large can't tell the difference. The resemblance is where their power comes from. Also, the whole Konfederacja Targowicka was highly conservative, nationalist, catholic and pro-Russian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targowica_Confederation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targowica_Confederation