18 ms·

Lockdowns hurt poor people very badly; they need to earn to survive. All the more reason everyone should mask up. And yet, most people stopped masking months ag

by qart 5y ago

Lockdowns hurt poor people very badly; they need to earn to survive. All the more reason everyone should mask up. And yet, most people stopped masking months ago. Crowds are as bad as they were in 2019. On top of that, doctors here have created a craze for remdesivir, resulting in a blackmarket for it. The central and state governments have mismanaged plenty of things. While they deserve their share of blame, the ordinary people have only made matters worse. Chin-mask, no-mask, herbal "remedies", religious gatherings, weddings, engagements, naming ceremonies... the list goes on. As a truly perfect representative of the people, the chief minister here got COVID once, got vaccinated, and then got COVID a second time.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting themselves properly, I see too many half-assed mask wearing (with the nose out) around. Or people thinking being masked means they can just hover near others. I also wish that governments try to inform more, I don't really see anyone saying "Ventilate more!" like this research results suggest they should: https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-a... .
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  > I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting themselves properly I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting others properly. The people who don't wear masks properly are the ones who think only about themselves ("this mask won't protect me anyway") and don't care about how masks help protect the people around them.
  - ncallaway 5y ago
    Absolutely this. People who refuse to wear a mask around others, or intentionally wear one poorly are just telegraphing how little they care for other people.
    - ls612 5y ago
      I'm vaccinated, why the hell should I wear a mask besides the fact that the government says so? The odds of me having any detectable viral load to transmit are extremely low. [1] [1]https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vacci...
      - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
        > I'm vaccinated, why the hell should I wear a mask 0. To prevent fresh distribution of constantly mutating variants so that we don't lose this wonderful chance we currently have of ending the pandemic. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/coronavirus-variant-tracker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/coronavirus-... 1. Signaling to intransigent anti-vax anti-maskers that wearing a mask is the right thing to do for the sake of others, because social messaging works. 2. Making it harder for intransigent anti-vax anti-maskers to blend in. 3. Informing others around you in a communicating society that you care about them, because nobody but you knows that you're vaccinated. 4. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belt-and-suspenders https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belt-and-suspende... b. It costs you nothing. I'll probably think of other reasons later, but these seem good enough for now.
        ls612 5y ago
        So it is really about signaling your affiliation at this point. At least you admit it. I wore a mask since last summer but the idea that I still need to wear it for no medical purpose, when over half of eligible Americans have received at least one shot and that number is rising every day, is just pure performative politics. And the cost isn’t zero. It prevents others from seeing my face which is a critical component of social interaction. This was an acceptable cost last fall when cases were surging and we had no cure, but now it’s just ridiculous. I’ll get downvoted I’m sure, but if the mask mandates continue past May it’ll be a very strong sign that they were never primarily about following the science.
        5y ago
  - alex_smart 5y ago
    Indian people are very selfish in general unfortunately. Living in a resource-starved environment would do that to you.
    - simplezeal 5y ago
      This is hyper generalization without any references to back the assertion.
      - towergratis 5y ago
        This is not a scientific paper. Sometimes sharing your experience/opinion for a place you grew up and lived your whole life, is ok too
notsureaboutpg 5y ago
I think putting the blame on people for weddings, religious ceremonies (aka normal everyday life which is going to happen, even during the Afghanistan War people had wedding celebrations despite the danger) is misguided. Governments are getting rightful blame. I think the media also don't help. How many stupid news outlets were saying that Indian people have some kind of genetic immunity to COVID with absolutely no evidence of any such thing? That affects people more than one wedding.
- qart 5y ago
  The virus does not care what you consider misguided. Make all the excuses you want, but crowds lead to spreading of airborne diseases.
  - fabatka 5y ago
    Sure, but disease containment is not (or should not be) the sole metric to optimize for. Edit: grammar fix
    - mavhc 5y ago
      Problem is people don't understand exponential growth, whenever the R number if >1 you're totally screwed, even if just 1 person is infected
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    The virus may spread in whatever way it does, but what public-health measures are to be used to respond to it, have to have some kind of mandate from the population. Already in several countries the authorities have chosen not to impose tighter restrictions on gatherings because the population has shown that it would flaunt them. In that case, public-health officials have to change their messaging to e.g. encouraging those gathering to do so outdoors, where transmission is less likely.
    - ryandrake 5y ago
      If only there were some way to punish people who violate government mandated measures. Like, I don't know, maybe we could dress some people up with a uniform and badge, and give them the authority to stop violators and "fine" or "incarcerate" them. Some kind of "justice system" or something. I don't know, this is a new invention I'm coming up with on the fly. We had this problem in the USA, too. All these "mandates" flying around, and governments congratulating themselves over their stay-at-home "orders", yet very little to nothing in the way of enforcement. We seem to be able to enforce drunk driving and seatbelt laws, but when it comes to masks and preventing gatherings, we're flummoxed! Suddenly, nobody knows how to enforce the rules anymore!
hawk_ 5y ago
haven't been keeping up with updates from there but what's with vaccinated people getting the disease? is that common there due double mutant variant(s)?
- gulabjamuns 5y ago
  Some have only had one dose . Vaccination does not always prevent infection, but it does reduce severity of disease we are told.
- qart 5y ago
  I don't know how much the mutations have to do with it. But the Indian studies show a reinfection rate of 4.5% [1]. Apparently, it is common among the elderly [2]. Our CM is 78. [1] https://science.thewire.in/health/icmr-defines-interval-for-covid-19-re-infection-to-strengthen-surveillance/ https://science.thewire.in/health/icmr-defines-interval-for-... [2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/covid-reinfection-rare-more-common-over-65-study/ar-BB1eH9mh https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/covid-reinfection-rare-...
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  None of the vaccines are 100% effective. A 74% effective (at preventing symptoms) vaccine (like Oxford/AstraZeneca) means 26% of people can still get the disease (and likely some more can get infected, without getting disease symptoms). A 95% effective (at preventing symptoms) vaccine like the Pfizer/BioNTech one means 5% of people can still get symptoms (and likely some more can get infected, without getting disease symptoms). The vaccines effectiveness is (mostly) a factor of how well they prevent the disease COVID-19. It's NOT a direct indication of how well they prevent infection with SARS-CoV-2, since not all infections cause COVID-19 (some are asymptomatic) but it seems to be a reasonably close bound.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    > 74% effective (at preventing symptoms) Preventing "moderate symptoms", which is enough symptoms that the typical person would stay home from work. "mild symptoms" means people notice they were more tired than usual, but otherwise didn't feel like it was bad enough to stay home. "Severe" symptoms, which means people went to a hospital to get treated. ----------- The 74% and 95% numbers you quoted were against "moderate" symptoms in the Phase 3 trials. IIRC, all vaccines were 100% effective against "hospitalizations" and "death" (severe). ------- With that being said, it seems like the asymptomatic effectiveness is something like 60% to 80% (depending on the vaccine). That is: if we constatly do COVID19 tests to check for ASYMPTOMATIC infection, we still see a major reduction in asymptomatic COVID19 in vaccinated individuals.
wolfretcrap 5y ago
>While they deserve their share of blame, the ordinary people have only made matters worse. Chin-mask, no-mask, herbal "remedies", religious gatherings, weddings, engagements, naming ceremonies... the list goes on. Culture does not change in a day even at desperate times. Government should ban gathering and events. Even my extended family is planning to attend a wedding despite huge risk in doing so, why? In India attending someone's wedding is very important and basis for building social wealth. If you don't attend others wedding, they'll not attend yours. As simple as that, all families live in this fear of having no one attending wedding of their daughter or son that they take this massive risk to arrived at the wedding of their friends and relatives. Only strict government rule can fix this, otherwise I've heard misinformed people claiming that Coronavirus is just a hoax by government and no one is dying, why can't you attend the wedding if the everyone is coming. Unfortunately, you can't teach the people who hold this view, you only lose to them if you try to use reason.
- walshemj 5y ago
  The UK changed culture around weddings and funerals see teh Late Prince Phillips funeral.
  - jey 5y ago
    The UK is very individualistic when compared to India. So the UK experience doesn’t translate so readily.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    In the UK it was the funeral of a single dead rich guy and a singular instance. OP just said that weddings are the basis for societal wealth. Without an alternative in an already poor nation, how do you expect them just to change, shrug their shoulders and say oh well, guess we are poor forever now.
    - walshemj 5y ago
      Or stop treating women as cash cows maybe
pagerdutyalert 5y ago
In addition to the financial, the environmental strain is intense too. City living with the kind of strict lockdowns imposed was to say the least claustrophobic. What is surprising is misinformation around the variant when there isn't definitive evidence on its morbidity or contagion. The obvious cause is a population letting its guard down!
dheera 5y ago
Non-paywall link: https://californianewstimes.com/it-is-much-worse-this-time-indias-devastating-second-wave/286867/ https://californianewstimes.com/it-is-much-worse-this-time-i...
supernovae 5y ago
What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pandemic is proving one thing - that we suck at democracy and we're not willing to do anything to fix it because we don't want to change how it works for so few when it doesn't work for exponentially more - as long as we're part of the so few, we'll turn a blind eye.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  Precisely. What you described is exactly what happened in China and Vietnam: one short strict lockdown while taking care of people's material necessities. Unsurprisingly, both countries have eliminated community transmission.
  - sgt101 5y ago
    This is a naive reading of what has happened. There may well be some cross immunity in some communities due to previous coronavirus circulations. And the numbers in China are not all that credible - one guy at my work had three of four grandparents die of "some winter cold" in March last year. It will be quite some time before the numbers in China become clear I think.
    - ridethebike 5y ago
      I think if China didn't manage coronavirus successfully we'd have seen numbers of deaths due to "some winter cold" so large that even communist party wouldn't be able to hide
      - sgt101 5y ago
        Really? They did a pretty good job of hiding a host of vast reeducation centres....
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
> All the more reason everyone should mask up Not just mask up, but do it with proper masks. Majority wear cloth masks in the country if at all they do because they were the ones which were available widely(affordable) during the first wave and that there were some data to suggest it's better than nothing. But many of those masks have worn out after repeated washing, I'm having a hard time making people switch to proper masks as they are not comfortable with them and naturally mask prices are starting to skyrocket again. Proper masks needs to be distributed through the PDS (Public Distribution System), During first wave cloth mask was distributed through that in my state. Then of course there's this, > Chin-mask
gopalv 5y ago
> On top of that, doctors here have created a craze for remdesivir, resulting in a blackmarket for it. So this was shared by someone who claims to be an ICU doctor in Delhi - the prescriptions are not being written because they are medically necessary. My family member with the lowest SpO2 is in the DRDO hospital is on Ivermectin + prednisone & a Dexa IV (& not remdesivir). The rumour is that some doctor had his arm broken by a family member for not prescribing the remdesivir after the patient died. So the doctors are writing prescriptions and asking the patients to source them, even if the hospital dispensary has the drug in storage, to avoid getting beaten up by the patients family. This has created a complete black market for the drug, which vastly outstrips the demand and hopefully the doctors are probably just chucking whatever shady vial the family brings over instead of putting in a sick person.
vsundar 5y ago
While I do think it is true that people break norms, I'd say a large factor here has been the messaging and leaders behaving like the danger is past. Leaders like the home minister, Amit Shah [1] and the health minister Harsh Vardhan [2] have been saying that we are in the end stage from Jan. Starting vaccinations is not the end game. We opened up for crowds for a cricket match (57k) [3] and kumbh mela [4] (actively promoted by the state and central govt), where the latter was expecting crowd in millions. (10 lakhs is 1 million). Covid protocol could really not be followed with that crowd [11]. We literally had an Assam minister saying that masks weren't needed earlier this month[6]. And of course election rallies with big crowds [5]. PM Modi was exulting about a huge crowd just a few days ago [12] Amit Shah was actually saying these are not related to the spikes [13] I'd actually lay the blame on these: - Inconsistent messaging on safety precautions. - Vaccine shortage and related slow vaccination drives. India did not give advance orders and stockpile vaccines [8] - Oxygen shortage. We already know oxygen was needed. The govt didn't follow through and build capacity for oxygen plants. We floated tenders 8 months into the pandemic and didn't follow through [9] - We did not pay attention to and sequence variants to stay on top of things. [10] I could go on... we are short various medicines, facilities; state govts of Gujarat, UP, MP, Bihar were actively under reporting by sometimes more than 10x [13]- if you don't acknowledge the problem, you can't fix the problem; not opening up vaccinations to everyone and not letting in vaccines that were already approved outside (both until very recently); not listening to folks who were trying to point these out... Apologies for the long response. But yea, I'm shocked at how bad things are, and, while I think people can follow rules better, I'd squarely lay the blame for this on the govt. [1] https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/union-home-minister-amit-shah-as-vaccination-drive-begins-fight-against-covid-19-in-final-stage-2353563 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/union-home-minister-amit-sha... [2] https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/we-are-in-the-endgame-of-covid-19-pandemic-in-india-vardhan-1776697-2021-03-07 https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/we-are-... [3] https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2021/03/15/narendra-modi-stadium-attracts-post-covid-record-crowd/ https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2021/03/15/narendra-modi-... [4] https://www.thequint.com/news/india/massive-crowd-gathers-for-kumbh-mela-in-haridwar-amid-covid-surge https://www.thequint.com/news/india/massive-crowd-gathers-fo... [5] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/covid-has-a-free-run-in-poll-states-bengals-only-half-done/articleshow/82072338.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/covid-has-a-... [6] https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/assam-health-minister-himanta-biswa-sarma-remark-amid-covid-19-surge-is-worrying-3607091.html https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/assam-health-minister-himan... [7] https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2020/dec/22/no-masks-no-social-distancing-covid-19-norms-go-for-a-toss-at-bjp-mlas-wedding-2239550.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2020/dec/22/no-masks... [8] https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/how-we-landed-in-covid-vaccine-mess/cid/1812969 https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/how-we-landed-in-covid-... [9] https://scroll.in/article/992537/india-is-running-out-of-oxygen-covid-19-patients-are-dying-because-the-government-wasted-time https://scroll.in/article/992537/india-is-running-out-of-oxy... [10] https://scroll.in/latest/990519/coronavirus-less-than-1-samples-in-india-were-genome-sequenced-in-three-months-says-report https://scroll.in/latest/990519/coronavirus-less-than-1-samp... [11] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/maha-kumbh-mela-could-not-implement-covid-protocols-as-it-was-peak-day-says-uttarakhand-dgp/videoshow/82029684.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/maha-kumbh-m... [12] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5jzuE866lo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5jzuE866lo [13] https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1384782949879517185 https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1384782949879517185 (may have to go through the twitter link to access ft article)

by qart 5y ago

bellyfullofbac 5y ago

I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting themselves properly, I see too many half-assed mask wearing (with the nose out) around. Or people thinking being masked means they can just hover near others. I also wish that governments try to inform more, I don't really see anyone saying "Ventilate more!" like this research results suggest they should: https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-a... .

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting themselves properly I wish people gave a bit more shit about protecting others properly. The people who don't wear masks properly are the ones who think only about themselves ("this mask won't protect me anyway") and don't care about how masks help protect the people around them.
- ncallaway 5y ago
  Absolutely this. People who refuse to wear a mask around others, or intentionally wear one poorly are just telegraphing how little they care for other people.
  - ls612 5y ago
    I'm vaccinated, why the hell should I wear a mask besides the fact that the government says so? The odds of me having any detectable viral load to transmit are extremely low. [1] [1]https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vacci...
    - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
      > I'm vaccinated, why the hell should I wear a mask 0. To prevent fresh distribution of constantly mutating variants so that we don't lose this wonderful chance we currently have of ending the pandemic. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/coronavirus-variant-tracker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/coronavirus-... 1. Signaling to intransigent anti-vax anti-maskers that wearing a mask is the right thing to do for the sake of others, because social messaging works. 2. Making it harder for intransigent anti-vax anti-maskers to blend in. 3. Informing others around you in a communicating society that you care about them, because nobody but you knows that you're vaccinated. 4. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belt-and-suspenders https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belt-and-suspende... b. It costs you nothing. I'll probably think of other reasons later, but these seem good enough for now.
      - ls612 5y ago
        So it is really about signaling your affiliation at this point. At least you admit it. I wore a mask since last summer but the idea that I still need to wear it for no medical purpose, when over half of eligible Americans have received at least one shot and that number is rising every day, is just pure performative politics. And the cost isn’t zero. It prevents others from seeing my face which is a critical component of social interaction. This was an acceptable cost last fall when cases were surging and we had no cure, but now it’s just ridiculous. I’ll get downvoted I’m sure, but if the mask mandates continue past May it’ll be a very strong sign that they were never primarily about following the science.
        5y ago
- alex_smart 5y ago
  Indian people are very selfish in general unfortunately. Living in a resource-starved environment would do that to you.
  - simplezeal 5y ago
    This is hyper generalization without any references to back the assertion.
    - towergratis 5y ago
      This is not a scientific paper. Sometimes sharing your experience/opinion for a place you grew up and lived your whole life, is ok too

notsureaboutpg 5y ago

I think putting the blame on people for weddings, religious ceremonies (aka normal everyday life which is going to happen, even during the Afghanistan War people had wedding celebrations despite the danger) is misguided. Governments are getting rightful blame. I think the media also don't help. How many stupid news outlets were saying that Indian people have some kind of genetic immunity to COVID with absolutely no evidence of any such thing? That affects people more than one wedding.

qart 5y ago
The virus does not care what you consider misguided. Make all the excuses you want, but crowds lead to spreading of airborne diseases.
- fabatka 5y ago
  Sure, but disease containment is not (or should not be) the sole metric to optimize for. Edit: grammar fix
  - mavhc 5y ago
    Problem is people don't understand exponential growth, whenever the R number if >1 you're totally screwed, even if just 1 person is infected
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  The virus may spread in whatever way it does, but what public-health measures are to be used to respond to it, have to have some kind of mandate from the population. Already in several countries the authorities have chosen not to impose tighter restrictions on gatherings because the population has shown that it would flaunt them. In that case, public-health officials have to change their messaging to e.g. encouraging those gathering to do so outdoors, where transmission is less likely.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    If only there were some way to punish people who violate government mandated measures. Like, I don't know, maybe we could dress some people up with a uniform and badge, and give them the authority to stop violators and "fine" or "incarcerate" them. Some kind of "justice system" or something. I don't know, this is a new invention I'm coming up with on the fly. We had this problem in the USA, too. All these "mandates" flying around, and governments congratulating themselves over their stay-at-home "orders", yet very little to nothing in the way of enforcement. We seem to be able to enforce drunk driving and seatbelt laws, but when it comes to masks and preventing gatherings, we're flummoxed! Suddenly, nobody knows how to enforce the rules anymore!

hawk_ 5y ago

haven't been keeping up with updates from there but what's with vaccinated people getting the disease? is that common there due double mutant variant(s)?

gulabjamuns 5y ago
Some have only had one dose . Vaccination does not always prevent infection, but it does reduce severity of disease we are told.
qart 5y ago
I don't know how much the mutations have to do with it. But the Indian studies show a reinfection rate of 4.5% [1]. Apparently, it is common among the elderly [2]. Our CM is 78. [1] https://science.thewire.in/health/icmr-defines-interval-for-covid-19-re-infection-to-strengthen-surveillance/ https://science.thewire.in/health/icmr-defines-interval-for-... [2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/covid-reinfection-rare-more-common-over-65-study/ar-BB1eH9mh https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/covid-reinfection-rare-...
SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
None of the vaccines are 100% effective. A 74% effective (at preventing symptoms) vaccine (like Oxford/AstraZeneca) means 26% of people can still get the disease (and likely some more can get infected, without getting disease symptoms). A 95% effective (at preventing symptoms) vaccine like the Pfizer/BioNTech one means 5% of people can still get symptoms (and likely some more can get infected, without getting disease symptoms). The vaccines effectiveness is (mostly) a factor of how well they prevent the disease COVID-19. It's NOT a direct indication of how well they prevent infection with SARS-CoV-2, since not all infections cause COVID-19 (some are asymptomatic) but it seems to be a reasonably close bound.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  > 74% effective (at preventing symptoms) Preventing "moderate symptoms", which is enough symptoms that the typical person would stay home from work. "mild symptoms" means people notice they were more tired than usual, but otherwise didn't feel like it was bad enough to stay home. "Severe" symptoms, which means people went to a hospital to get treated. ----------- The 74% and 95% numbers you quoted were against "moderate" symptoms in the Phase 3 trials. IIRC, all vaccines were 100% effective against "hospitalizations" and "death" (severe). ------- With that being said, it seems like the asymptomatic effectiveness is something like 60% to 80% (depending on the vaccine). That is: if we constatly do COVID19 tests to check for ASYMPTOMATIC infection, we still see a major reduction in asymptomatic COVID19 in vaccinated individuals.

wolfretcrap 5y ago

>While they deserve their share of blame, the ordinary people have only made matters worse. Chin-mask, no-mask, herbal "remedies", religious gatherings, weddings, engagements, naming ceremonies... the list goes on. Culture does not change in a day even at desperate times. Government should ban gathering and events. Even my extended family is planning to attend a wedding despite huge risk in doing so, why? In India attending someone's wedding is very important and basis for building social wealth. If you don't attend others wedding, they'll not attend yours. As simple as that, all families live in this fear of having no one attending wedding of their daughter or son that they take this massive risk to arrived at the wedding of their friends and relatives. Only strict government rule can fix this, otherwise I've heard misinformed people claiming that Coronavirus is just a hoax by government and no one is dying, why can't you attend the wedding if the everyone is coming. Unfortunately, you can't teach the people who hold this view, you only lose to them if you try to use reason.

walshemj 5y ago
The UK changed culture around weddings and funerals see teh Late Prince Phillips funeral.
- jey 5y ago
  The UK is very individualistic when compared to India. So the UK experience doesn’t translate so readily.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  In the UK it was the funeral of a single dead rich guy and a singular instance. OP just said that weddings are the basis for societal wealth. Without an alternative in an already poor nation, how do you expect them just to change, shrug their shoulders and say oh well, guess we are poor forever now.
  - walshemj 5y ago
    Or stop treating women as cash cows maybe

pagerdutyalert 5y ago

In addition to the financial, the environmental strain is intense too. City living with the kind of strict lockdowns imposed was to say the least claustrophobic. What is surprising is misinformation around the variant when there isn't definitive evidence on its morbidity or contagion. The obvious cause is a population letting its guard down!

dheera 5y ago

Non-paywall link: https://californianewstimes.com/it-is-much-worse-this-time-indias-devastating-second-wave/286867/ https://californianewstimes.com/it-is-much-worse-this-time-i...

supernovae 5y ago

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pandemic is proving one thing - that we suck at democracy and we're not willing to do anything to fix it because we don't want to change how it works for so few when it doesn't work for exponentially more - as long as we're part of the so few, we'll turn a blind eye.

lucian1900 5y ago
Precisely. What you described is exactly what happened in China and Vietnam: one short strict lockdown while taking care of people's material necessities. Unsurprisingly, both countries have eliminated community transmission.
- sgt101 5y ago
  This is a naive reading of what has happened. There may well be some cross immunity in some communities due to previous coronavirus circulations. And the numbers in China are not all that credible - one guy at my work had three of four grandparents die of "some winter cold" in March last year. It will be quite some time before the numbers in China become clear I think.
  - ridethebike 5y ago
    I think if China didn't manage coronavirus successfully we'd have seen numbers of deaths due to "some winter cold" so large that even communist party wouldn't be able to hide
    - sgt101 5y ago
      Really? They did a pretty good job of hiding a host of vast reeducation centres....

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

> All the more reason everyone should mask up Not just mask up, but do it with proper masks. Majority wear cloth masks in the country if at all they do because they were the ones which were available widely(affordable) during the first wave and that there were some data to suggest it's better than nothing. But many of those masks have worn out after repeated washing, I'm having a hard time making people switch to proper masks as they are not comfortable with them and naturally mask prices are starting to skyrocket again. Proper masks needs to be distributed through the PDS (Public Distribution System), During first wave cloth mask was distributed through that in my state. Then of course there's this, > Chin-mask

gopalv 5y ago

> On top of that, doctors here have created a craze for remdesivir, resulting in a blackmarket for it. So this was shared by someone who claims to be an ICU doctor in Delhi - the prescriptions are not being written because they are medically necessary. My family member with the lowest SpO2 is in the DRDO hospital is on Ivermectin + prednisone & a Dexa IV (& not remdesivir). The rumour is that some doctor had his arm broken by a family member for not prescribing the remdesivir after the patient died. So the doctors are writing prescriptions and asking the patients to source them, even if the hospital dispensary has the drug in storage, to avoid getting beaten up by the patients family. This has created a complete black market for the drug, which vastly outstrips the demand and hopefully the doctors are probably just chucking whatever shady vial the family brings over instead of putting in a sick person.

vsundar 5y ago

While I do think it is true that people break norms, I'd say a large factor here has been the messaging and leaders behaving like the danger is past. Leaders like the home minister, Amit Shah [1] and the health minister Harsh Vardhan [2] have been saying that we are in the end stage from Jan. Starting vaccinations is not the end game. We opened up for crowds for a cricket match (57k) [3] and kumbh mela [4] (actively promoted by the state and central govt), where the latter was expecting crowd in millions. (10 lakhs is 1 million). Covid protocol could really not be followed with that crowd [11]. We literally had an Assam minister saying that masks weren't needed earlier this month[6]. And of course election rallies with big crowds [5]. PM Modi was exulting about a huge crowd just a few days ago [12] Amit Shah was actually saying these are not related to the spikes [13] I'd actually lay the blame on these: - Inconsistent messaging on safety precautions. - Vaccine shortage and related slow vaccination drives. India did not give advance orders and stockpile vaccines [8] - Oxygen shortage. We already know oxygen was needed. The govt didn't follow through and build capacity for oxygen plants. We floated tenders 8 months into the pandemic and didn't follow through [9] - We did not pay attention to and sequence variants to stay on top of things. [10] I could go on... we are short various medicines, facilities; state govts of Gujarat, UP, MP, Bihar were actively under reporting by sometimes more than 10x [13]- if you don't acknowledge the problem, you can't fix the problem; not opening up vaccinations to everyone and not letting in vaccines that were already approved outside (both until very recently); not listening to folks who were trying to point these out... Apologies for the long response. But yea, I'm shocked at how bad things are, and, while I think people can follow rules better, I'd squarely lay the blame for this on the govt. [1] https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/union-home-minister-amit-shah-as-vaccination-drive-begins-fight-against-covid-19-in-final-stage-2353563 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/union-home-minister-amit-sha... [2] https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/we-are-in-the-endgame-of-covid-19-pandemic-in-india-vardhan-1776697-2021-03-07 https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/we-are-... [3] https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2021/03/15/narendra-modi-stadium-attracts-post-covid-record-crowd/ https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2021/03/15/narendra-modi-... [4] https://www.thequint.com/news/india/massive-crowd-gathers-for-kumbh-mela-in-haridwar-amid-covid-surge https://www.thequint.com/news/india/massive-crowd-gathers-fo... [5] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/covid-has-a-free-run-in-poll-states-bengals-only-half-done/articleshow/82072338.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/covid-has-a-... [6] https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/assam-health-minister-himanta-biswa-sarma-remark-amid-covid-19-surge-is-worrying-3607091.html https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/assam-health-minister-himan... [7] https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2020/dec/22/no-masks-no-social-distancing-covid-19-norms-go-for-a-toss-at-bjp-mlas-wedding-2239550.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2020/dec/22/no-masks... [8] https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/how-we-landed-in-covid-vaccine-mess/cid/1812969 https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/how-we-landed-in-covid-... [9] https://scroll.in/article/992537/india-is-running-out-of-oxygen-covid-19-patients-are-dying-because-the-government-wasted-time https://scroll.in/article/992537/india-is-running-out-of-oxy... [10] https://scroll.in/latest/990519/coronavirus-less-than-1-samples-in-india-were-genome-sequenced-in-three-months-says-report https://scroll.in/latest/990519/coronavirus-less-than-1-samp... [11] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/maha-kumbh-mela-could-not-implement-covid-protocols-as-it-was-peak-day-says-uttarakhand-dgp/videoshow/82029684.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/maha-kumbh-m... [12] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5jzuE866lo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5jzuE866lo [13] https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1384782949879517185 https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1384782949879517185 (may have to go through the twitter link to access ft article)