26 ms·

As pointed out above, this is already the status quo (replacable battery, 1 year life, etc). Tile has had it for years. I'm curious if it would've been technic

As pointed out above, this is already the status quo (replacable battery, 1 year life, etc). Tile has had it for years. I'm curious if it would've been technically feasible to have wireless charging on these instead of replaceable battery. Or would that greatly increase the price?

dijit 6y ago
> Tile has had it for years. I had a tile and it most assuredly did not have a replacable battery, I had to mill the thing open: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhM5ujSU6w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhM5ujSU6w
- Me1000 6y ago
  Yeah, I had to check their website... it looks like some of the their models have replaceable batteries now, but they certainly didn't start that way (and not all of their products have a replaceable battery today).
  - ehsankia 6y ago
    Never claimed it started this way, but they've had replaceable models for ~3 years now, if not longer.
- spoonjim 6y ago
  Tile has products with replaceable and with non replaceable batteries.
  - natch 6y ago
    Yes now they do. For years they had only non-user-replaceable ones but they were happy to charge a large fee for a swap.
    - KingOfCoders 6y ago
      "Now" like in the last 3+ years.
    - quangv 6y ago
      Tile sends me free replaceable batteries. Hopefully AirTag opens up their API so Tile can integrate. I’m just assuming AirTag would be slightly more integrated than Tile.
      - mrunkel 6y ago
        The “find my” app is open to third party devices, but they have to get certified.
        dexterdog 6y ago
        That's a funny way of saying they have to pay for the license.
      - sbuk 6y ago
        They do? They charge me an annual subscription for that.
      - FabHK 6y ago
        Here is Gruber's take (from Daring Fireball): > Conspicuously absent from the list [of third-party products using the Find My network], of course, is Tile. Given their membership in Epic’s Coalition for App Fairness, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Apple to promote Tile’s products. And it’s unclear to me whether Tile even wants to be in the Find My app — their spat with Apple is more about their own app competing with Find My, and their accusations that Apple unfairly advantages Find My by not holding it to the same rules as third-party apps that ask for always-on location access. Apple’s solution is this third-party accessory program; Tile’s preferred solution would be Apple allowing Tile’s own app to do everything Find My can do. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/04/07/find-my-third-party-products https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/04/07/find-my-third-p...
      - natch 6y ago
- kstrauser 6y ago
  I've had a Tile with a replaceable battery since 2018 (according to the app just now). It replaced the previous single-use model.
Nextgrid 6y ago
To be fair, replaceable batteries in laptops and phones also used to be the status quo and Apple successfully changed that. Just because it’s the status quo wouldn’t prevent Apple from “thinking different”.
- ehsankia 6y ago
  It wouldn't, but in this specific case they didn't. Did apple bring any actual innovation that I missed? That's why I was proposing wireless charging, that would've actually been a nice step forward.
  - pfranz 6y ago
    > Did apple bring any actual innovation that I missed? I guess it depends on what you think of as innovation. Their marketing pointed to "scalloped" batteries instead of square so they can take up more empty space (plus the space that would have been used by covering the battery and a fatter connector). In my experience, their batteries went from 200 charge cycles, about ~4 of battery life, and often failing before reaching it's end of life to 1000 charge cycles, about 8-10hrs of battery life, and rarely getting "service" warnings suggesting replacement. At least last time I needed to swap batteries I just needed a small screwdriver. I was very concerned when they ditched removable batteries because that was one part I constantly had problems with. Since those issues were address I'm very glad they went that way.
    - ehsankia 6y ago
      > Their marketing pointed to "scalloped" batteries instead of square so they can take up more empty space I'm confused, are these standard CR2032 batteries or not? Do I have to buy some special Apple battery?
      - applecrazy 6y ago
        Parent comment is referring to MacBook batteries
    - 6y ago
banana_giraffe 6y ago
Tile has user replaceable batteries on some of their products. Granted, it seems to be on their best sellers, but I somehow ended up with the thin ones, and I found out those don't have replaceable batteries after they died.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  There was definitely a time when they had no product that had replaceable batteries in their line. I swore Tile off when I found out the hard way that the battery gives out a year from time of sale, not from when you activate it.
  - Zircom 6y ago
    Do you have a source for that? My partner got a me some Tiles for my birthday 9 months ago and I still haven't gotten around to actually putting them on anything, would hate to find out they're only good for 3 more months
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Well, this is buried in their FAQ, emphasis mine: https://tileteam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200550678-ReTile-Program https://tileteam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200550678-ReT... > What if my battery dies early? > We do not control the lifespan of your Tile; the battery is guaranteed to last a full year (or 3 years for Sticker and Slim) from your purchase date. Your Tiles are covered for 12 months by our worry-free warranty! If your Tile’s battery dies before a year has passed from the time of purchase, we’ll replace it free of charge. Our Customer Care team would be happy to help you!
    - vel0city 6y ago
      The battery is slowly discharging and dying sitting in the box. I got one as some vendor swag a few years ago at an event. I stuck it in a drawer for a couple of years and forgot about it. When I went to move, I tried using it. It was dead.
  - ryanfreeborn 6y ago
pfranz 6y ago
Tile didn't start with replaceable batteries--they still don't use them in all their products. I don't know how AirTags will be in practice, but user-replaceable batteries haven't been great. I don't know if it's a technical restriction or not, but "low-battery" seems to be a time based warning and not based on battery charge. So I either get an alert when 1 year has passed on all of my devices at the same time, or they just suddenly die without warning. I could see why Apple might avoid this user experience. Hopefully, their implementation is better.
- Kye 6y ago
  Your choice is a reasonable timer or extra circuitry and logic for monitoring battery power that cuts the battery life.
  - idiotsecant 6y ago
    low-cost, low-power battery monitoring is like pretty much the most solved problem ever.
    - zsmi 6y ago
      you forgot something, low-cost, low-power, low-accuracy battery monitoring is like pretty much the most solved problem ever. low-cost & low-power & high accuracy, not so much
      - idiotsecant 6y ago
        What do you mean? It's literally just a 2-axis lookup table with voltage on one axis and SOC on the other.
        xondono 6y ago
        Except it isn’t, not with modern lithium based batteries. Now most devices use direct voltage, coloumb counting and battery impedance to keep track, and that’s with known batteries.
runawaybottle 6y ago
If you are forgetting where your object is, you are probably forgetting to charge it too.
- jeffy90 6y ago
  I lose my phone all the time but somehow I manage to charge it
dghlsakjg 6y ago
A CR2032 (disposable) has 2x-4x (200 mah under ideal conditions, compared to 40 mah) the capacity of the same sized LR2032 (rechargeable), and is more stable over a long period of time. In addition there is the necessity of additional charging circuitry, and I'm not sure how small they can physically make the charging antenna. Lithium rechargeable would mean higher price, larger size for equivalent specs, with an added risk of fire!
- sydd 6y ago
  Instead now we get millions of CR2032 batteries thrown into the garbage each day :/ Anything with non-chargeable batteries is a no go from sustainability perspective
  - chid 6y ago
    you could get them as a re-chargeable (though it would likely be more waste to buy a recharger) - but I mean even rechargeable batteries are also consumables
    - dghlsakjg 6y ago
      Rechargeable batteries in the 2032 (20mm wide, 3.2mm deep) package are generally lithium ion chemistry. This means that, depending on the circuitry they are not always drop in compatible since the voltages and discharge curves differ
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    That’s not true, it depends on the types of materials, how it is disposed, and what the alternatives are. Recall that everything is made out of rearranged earth atoms. So long as you put them back properly, it can be sustainable.
    - ostenning 6y ago
      Yeah but is that practically the case? Most people just chuck things in the trash. Most are too busy to even think about disposing of their waste properly.. This is the reality of our society
cool-RR 6y ago
Audio jacks were also the status quo...
- tekknik 6y ago
  and so was 66Mhz 486 processors and RAM measured in KB and MB. things change.
friendzis 6y ago
> Or would that greatly increase the price? Not only price, but size/weight too. It seems that currently the thing is 99% battery/case/PCB and is designed around the battery. While technically wireless charging is off-the-shelf, incorporating that may have been seen as "too expensive" and/or "too large".
butterisgood 6y ago
I've never been able to replace the battery in a Tile. Is there some model I don't know about? I've been using them for at least the last 2 years.

dijit 6y ago

> Tile has had it for years. I had a tile and it most assuredly did not have a replacable battery, I had to mill the thing open: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhM5ujSU6w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhM5ujSU6w

Me1000 6y ago
Yeah, I had to check their website... it looks like some of the their models have replaceable batteries now, but they certainly didn't start that way (and not all of their products have a replaceable battery today).
- ehsankia 6y ago
  Never claimed it started this way, but they've had replaceable models for ~3 years now, if not longer.
spoonjim 6y ago
Tile has products with replaceable and with non replaceable batteries.
- natch 6y ago
  Yes now they do. For years they had only non-user-replaceable ones but they were happy to charge a large fee for a swap.
  - KingOfCoders 6y ago
    "Now" like in the last 3+ years.
  - quangv 6y ago
    Tile sends me free replaceable batteries. Hopefully AirTag opens up their API so Tile can integrate. I’m just assuming AirTag would be slightly more integrated than Tile.
    - mrunkel 6y ago
      The “find my” app is open to third party devices, but they have to get certified.
      - dexterdog 6y ago
        That's a funny way of saying they have to pay for the license.
    - sbuk 6y ago
      They do? They charge me an annual subscription for that.
    - FabHK 6y ago
      Here is Gruber's take (from Daring Fireball): > Conspicuously absent from the list [of third-party products using the Find My network], of course, is Tile. Given their membership in Epic’s Coalition for App Fairness, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Apple to promote Tile’s products. And it’s unclear to me whether Tile even wants to be in the Find My app — their spat with Apple is more about their own app competing with Find My, and their accusations that Apple unfairly advantages Find My by not holding it to the same rules as third-party apps that ask for always-on location access. Apple’s solution is this third-party accessory program; Tile’s preferred solution would be Apple allowing Tile’s own app to do everything Find My can do. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/04/07/find-my-third-party-products https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/04/07/find-my-third-p...
    - natch 6y ago
kstrauser 6y ago
I've had a Tile with a replaceable battery since 2018 (according to the app just now). It replaced the previous single-use model.

Nextgrid 6y ago

To be fair, replaceable batteries in laptops and phones also used to be the status quo and Apple successfully changed that. Just because it’s the status quo wouldn’t prevent Apple from “thinking different”.

ehsankia 6y ago
It wouldn't, but in this specific case they didn't. Did apple bring any actual innovation that I missed? That's why I was proposing wireless charging, that would've actually been a nice step forward.
- pfranz 6y ago
  > Did apple bring any actual innovation that I missed? I guess it depends on what you think of as innovation. Their marketing pointed to "scalloped" batteries instead of square so they can take up more empty space (plus the space that would have been used by covering the battery and a fatter connector). In my experience, their batteries went from 200 charge cycles, about ~4 of battery life, and often failing before reaching it's end of life to 1000 charge cycles, about 8-10hrs of battery life, and rarely getting "service" warnings suggesting replacement. At least last time I needed to swap batteries I just needed a small screwdriver. I was very concerned when they ditched removable batteries because that was one part I constantly had problems with. Since those issues were address I'm very glad they went that way.
  - ehsankia 6y ago
    > Their marketing pointed to "scalloped" batteries instead of square so they can take up more empty space I'm confused, are these standard CR2032 batteries or not? Do I have to buy some special Apple battery?
    - applecrazy 6y ago
      Parent comment is referring to MacBook batteries
  - 6y ago

banana_giraffe 6y ago

Tile has user replaceable batteries on some of their products. Granted, it seems to be on their best sellers, but I somehow ended up with the thin ones, and I found out those don't have replaceable batteries after they died.

bobthepanda 6y ago
There was definitely a time when they had no product that had replaceable batteries in their line. I swore Tile off when I found out the hard way that the battery gives out a year from time of sale, not from when you activate it.
- Zircom 6y ago
  Do you have a source for that? My partner got a me some Tiles for my birthday 9 months ago and I still haven't gotten around to actually putting them on anything, would hate to find out they're only good for 3 more months
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Well, this is buried in their FAQ, emphasis mine: https://tileteam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200550678-ReTile-Program https://tileteam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200550678-ReT... > What if my battery dies early? > We do not control the lifespan of your Tile; the battery is guaranteed to last a full year (or 3 years for Sticker and Slim) from your purchase date. Your Tiles are covered for 12 months by our worry-free warranty! If your Tile’s battery dies before a year has passed from the time of purchase, we’ll replace it free of charge. Our Customer Care team would be happy to help you!
  - vel0city 6y ago
    The battery is slowly discharging and dying sitting in the box. I got one as some vendor swag a few years ago at an event. I stuck it in a drawer for a couple of years and forgot about it. When I went to move, I tried using it. It was dead.
- ryanfreeborn 6y ago

pfranz 6y ago

Tile didn't start with replaceable batteries--they still don't use them in all their products. I don't know how AirTags will be in practice, but user-replaceable batteries haven't been great. I don't know if it's a technical restriction or not, but "low-battery" seems to be a time based warning and not based on battery charge. So I either get an alert when 1 year has passed on all of my devices at the same time, or they just suddenly die without warning. I could see why Apple might avoid this user experience. Hopefully, their implementation is better.

Kye 6y ago
Your choice is a reasonable timer or extra circuitry and logic for monitoring battery power that cuts the battery life.
- idiotsecant 6y ago
  low-cost, low-power battery monitoring is like pretty much the most solved problem ever.
  - zsmi 6y ago
    you forgot something, low-cost, low-power, low-accuracy battery monitoring is like pretty much the most solved problem ever. low-cost & low-power & high accuracy, not so much
    - idiotsecant 6y ago
      What do you mean? It's literally just a 2-axis lookup table with voltage on one axis and SOC on the other.
      - xondono 6y ago
        Except it isn’t, not with modern lithium based batteries. Now most devices use direct voltage, coloumb counting and battery impedance to keep track, and that’s with known batteries.

runawaybottle 6y ago

If you are forgetting where your object is, you are probably forgetting to charge it too.

jeffy90 6y ago
I lose my phone all the time but somehow I manage to charge it

dghlsakjg 6y ago

A CR2032 (disposable) has 2x-4x (200 mah under ideal conditions, compared to 40 mah) the capacity of the same sized LR2032 (rechargeable), and is more stable over a long period of time. In addition there is the necessity of additional charging circuitry, and I'm not sure how small they can physically make the charging antenna. Lithium rechargeable would mean higher price, larger size for equivalent specs, with an added risk of fire!

sydd 6y ago
Instead now we get millions of CR2032 batteries thrown into the garbage each day :/ Anything with non-chargeable batteries is a no go from sustainability perspective
- chid 6y ago
  you could get them as a re-chargeable (though it would likely be more waste to buy a recharger) - but I mean even rechargeable batteries are also consumables
  - dghlsakjg 6y ago
    Rechargeable batteries in the 2032 (20mm wide, 3.2mm deep) package are generally lithium ion chemistry. This means that, depending on the circuitry they are not always drop in compatible since the voltages and discharge curves differ
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  That’s not true, it depends on the types of materials, how it is disposed, and what the alternatives are. Recall that everything is made out of rearranged earth atoms. So long as you put them back properly, it can be sustainable.
  - ostenning 6y ago
    Yeah but is that practically the case? Most people just chuck things in the trash. Most are too busy to even think about disposing of their waste properly.. This is the reality of our society

cool-RR 6y ago

Audio jacks were also the status quo...

tekknik 6y ago
and so was 66Mhz 486 processors and RAM measured in KB and MB. things change.

friendzis 6y ago

> Or would that greatly increase the price? Not only price, but size/weight too. It seems that currently the thing is 99% battery/case/PCB and is designed around the battery. While technically wireless charging is off-the-shelf, incorporating that may have been seen as "too expensive" and/or "too large".

butterisgood 6y ago

I've never been able to replace the battery in a Tile. Is there some model I don't know about? I've been using them for at least the last 2 years.