5 ms·

It’s insane they don’t package a first party controller and just take the video console space over with it.

goodcjw2 6y ago
Yeah, sounds like natural next step. But building a game console ecosystem turns out to be 10x harder than building the hardware itself.
- tshaddox 6y ago
  That's true, but Apple already has a rich and successful game ecosystem on iPhones which are roughly the same hardware as the Apple TV. They have all the ingredients, and they've even made a visible attempt by offering Apple Arcade on the Apple TV. Wireless console controllers also work on Apple TV. It's just clear that the resources and effort haven't been made to get their Arcade developers to do the extra work to really make their titles work well on big TVs with console controllers.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Games on iPhone is really succeeded but I doubt it's thanks to Apple's effort.
  - gurkendoktor 6y ago
    I had an Apple TV 4K and a couple of compatible gamepads, and I loved some of the early tvOS games! Rayman, Icycle (!!), Alto's Adventure, Badlands... Then I tried Apple Arcade and it's just terrible. First, performance for all the 3D-heavy games is exactly what you would expect on a 4K screen with an iPhone 7 GPU. The iPhone XR GPU won't solve that. But I'm also convinced that Apple fundamentally doesn't get games. A lot of the content was just interactive storytelling. With a few notable exceptions, I felt like a suit who never owned a console or Steam account had picked games for me based purely on the marketing materials.
tshaddox 6y ago
Wireless Xbox controllers work fine with Apple TV. The bigger problem is that the games simply are not designed with a TV and console controller in mind. Even the Apple Arcade titles, which are generally very polished on iPhone and iPad, are pretty janky with a controller, and nearly unusable with the Apple TV Siri Remote (even though they claim to be designed for these input devices). But yes, it's very frustrating to me that the Apple TV doesn't have a rich gaming ecosystem. I'm pretty sure the hardware is powerful enough to deliver great performance and modern graphics for everything except the most photorealistic and flashy triple-A titles. Given that they offer Apple Arcade on the Apple TV, it's one of those surprising corners of the Apple ecosystem where you feel like a second-class citizen.
- NaN1352 6y ago
  It’s also kind of half assed for Apple surprisingly, specifically some games from Apple Arcade are downright unplayable on my before-last gen ATV. To a point where it feels like a scam that Apple didn’t simply exclude some titles from the older ATVs, it’s just bad user experience. I remember one 3d game was super puxellated due to upscaling and like 10fps :/. Why even allow users to get this game on aging hardware? Now I wonder if it’s worth upgrading for AA. I hate mobile games but there are a few good ports of pc games. And if i could play a good rogue game on my tv for smaller 20-30min sessions I’m sold. I’m still going to upgrade because you can feel even simple apps like twitch tv are laggy on before-last gen.
- corysama 6y ago
  This is the classic chicken-egg problem inherent in starting up a new game platform. Why invest in your game's controller experience and compromise the touch experience when billions of players have touch and a negligible amount have controllers? The only way to bootstrap the ecosystem is to prime the pump with large investments from the platform holder. Pay devs directly to add support. Give hardware to users way below cost.
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    Yep, I don’t fault the game devs at all! I would expect Apple to use the Arcade program (plus their infinite cash) to incentivize devs to really polish the Apple TV experience.
corysama 6y ago
I've heard an insider rumor that there was a plan years ago to make an Apple TV that would compete directly with the PS4. It was shelved because the person in charge of the App Store simply hated games and believed that music is the only art form worthy of respect. This led to that person demanding the limited set of Bluetooth channels be allocated in such a way that sufficiently responsive game controllers would be impossible. And, thus the concept was shelved. That person was later moved to be in charge of Apple Music.

Yeah, sounds like natural next step. But building a game console ecosystem turns out to be 10x harder than building the hardware itself.

tshaddox 6y ago
That's true, but Apple already has a rich and successful game ecosystem on iPhones which are roughly the same hardware as the Apple TV. They have all the ingredients, and they've even made a visible attempt by offering Apple Arcade on the Apple TV. Wireless console controllers also work on Apple TV. It's just clear that the resources and effort haven't been made to get their Arcade developers to do the extra work to really make their titles work well on big TVs with console controllers.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Games on iPhone is really succeeded but I doubt it's thanks to Apple's effort.
- gurkendoktor 6y ago
  I had an Apple TV 4K and a couple of compatible gamepads, and I loved some of the early tvOS games! Rayman, Icycle (!!), Alto's Adventure, Badlands... Then I tried Apple Arcade and it's just terrible. First, performance for all the 3D-heavy games is exactly what you would expect on a 4K screen with an iPhone 7 GPU. The iPhone XR GPU won't solve that. But I'm also convinced that Apple fundamentally doesn't get games. A lot of the content was just interactive storytelling. With a few notable exceptions, I felt like a suit who never owned a console or Steam account had picked games for me based purely on the marketing materials.

tshaddox 6y ago

Wireless Xbox controllers work fine with Apple TV. The bigger problem is that the games simply are not designed with a TV and console controller in mind. Even the Apple Arcade titles, which are generally very polished on iPhone and iPad, are pretty janky with a controller, and nearly unusable with the Apple TV Siri Remote (even though they claim to be designed for these input devices). But yes, it's very frustrating to me that the Apple TV doesn't have a rich gaming ecosystem. I'm pretty sure the hardware is powerful enough to deliver great performance and modern graphics for everything except the most photorealistic and flashy triple-A titles. Given that they offer Apple Arcade on the Apple TV, it's one of those surprising corners of the Apple ecosystem where you feel like a second-class citizen.

NaN1352 6y ago
It’s also kind of half assed for Apple surprisingly, specifically some games from Apple Arcade are downright unplayable on my before-last gen ATV. To a point where it feels like a scam that Apple didn’t simply exclude some titles from the older ATVs, it’s just bad user experience. I remember one 3d game was super puxellated due to upscaling and like 10fps :/. Why even allow users to get this game on aging hardware? Now I wonder if it’s worth upgrading for AA. I hate mobile games but there are a few good ports of pc games. And if i could play a good rogue game on my tv for smaller 20-30min sessions I’m sold. I’m still going to upgrade because you can feel even simple apps like twitch tv are laggy on before-last gen.
corysama 6y ago
This is the classic chicken-egg problem inherent in starting up a new game platform. Why invest in your game's controller experience and compromise the touch experience when billions of players have touch and a negligible amount have controllers? The only way to bootstrap the ecosystem is to prime the pump with large investments from the platform holder. Pay devs directly to add support. Give hardware to users way below cost.
- tshaddox 6y ago
  Yep, I don’t fault the game devs at all! I would expect Apple to use the Arcade program (plus their infinite cash) to incentivize devs to really polish the Apple TV experience.

corysama 6y ago

I've heard an insider rumor that there was a plan years ago to make an Apple TV that would compete directly with the PS4. It was shelved because the person in charge of the App Store simply hated games and believed that music is the only art form worthy of respect. This led to that person demanding the limited set of Bluetooth channels be allocated in such a way that sufficiently responsive game controllers would be impossible. And, thus the concept was shelved. That person was later moved to be in charge of Apple Music.