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In the world of IoT, everything-is-an-app and disposable electronics, I'm increasingly appreciating "appliance" electronics. Things that do one thing well. I r

In the world of IoT, everything-is-an-app and disposable electronics, I'm increasingly appreciating "appliance" electronics. Things that do one thing well. I recently got a baby monitor - there's plenty of IoT enabled wifi ones which use your phone as the display, but the one I chose was simple and standalone. It just works. No software, no app, no security implications. I can give it to someone else and it'll work for them too. I wonder what other areas of our life we should be unbundling again into appliances?

walterbell 6y ago
> I'm increasingly appreciating "appliance" electronics. Things that do one thing well. Plus dedicated physical buttons! FiiO provides a rotary volume control on their flagship $1000 player, https://audiosolace.com/2020/09/04/fiio-m15-review/ https://audiosolace.com/2020/09/04/fiio-m15-review/
- alpaca128 6y ago
  They also put a rotary volume control on my external DAC/headphone amp that cost a tiny fraction. And I must say I love that now I don't have to choose between two volume levels which are either a bit too quiet or a bit too loud. And that no software automatically dials back the volume every 10-15 minutes with a notification telling me that it's convinced I'm damaging my ears.
petepete 6y ago
I feel like this every time I use my cameras. They do one thing and do it exceedingly well. They feel like _tools_ rather than gadgets or devices.
tiagod 6y ago
>no security implications It's broadcasting video through some unknown protocol, are you sure it's (properly) encrypting it?
- jtsiskin 6y ago
  It’s sounds like it’s closed loop, and not connected to the internet/WiFi. I would say that makes it thousands of times less likely to be hacked, even if there was some fundamental issue with the encryption.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  Even a fully unencrypted local video feed would require someone to park outside your house for the duration of the broadcast to capture it all. Meanwhile, in the cloud, user data sometimes gets dumped into unsecured S3 buckets that anyone in the world could access. Even if the video is properly secured, there's no guarantee the service in question is not keeping it indefinitely for marketing/machine-learning/other purposes and it eventually leaks in a security breach.
tediousdemise 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_and_Do_It_Well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_a...
voisin 6y ago
I think a lot of consumers are going to wake up in a few years and feel ripped off when their smart thermostat or smart lock or smart lights are no longer supported and have lost the functionality they’ve paid extra for. I miss the days when you pay for some set of functionality and it stays with the device for the duration of ownership. The standard seems to be to buy on one set of value propositions and to find them degraded over time (see Peloton eliminating Apple Watch support for all exercises but cycling this week as a recent example). I think this is what makes Tesla special with regular OTA updates increasing functionality.
- Workaccount2 6y ago
  Especially with the rising cancer known as SaaS. Soon you'll need to be paying $10/mo for your thermostat to work, and you'll need to fork over another $200 every other year to upgrade the hardware.
  - voisin 6y ago
    And then the company will be purchased by a FAANG and you will immediately be forced into using new accounts and new workflows for the same functionality (yes, suddenly thermostats have workflows now...)
    - devenblake 6y ago
      It's a small price to pay for the new Amazon Lord of the RingsTM television event where everyone's heaters will kick on at max whenever there's fire on screen.
  - ahepp 6y ago
    This is actually an improvement. It aligns the incentives of the guys making your thermostat's web UI. Otherwise your thermostat wouldn't get new features and security updates
    - goodpoint 6y ago
      No, I want security updates without surveillance, without lock-in and without a monthly fee. Sounds like too much to ask? This is what Linux distributions has been providing for decades. And my 486 PC was less powerful than some thermostat.
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
>No software, no app, no security implications. I can give it to someone else and it'll work for them too. Is it like a wired connection between the Camera and the Monitor?
1-more 6y ago
I was recently shopping for bicycle power meters because I want to know exactly how bad I am at pretending cars don't exist (I'm slow, folks). There's been an explosion in direct-to-consumer companies making them. I was looking at a self-installed crank strain gauge model where the tradeoff is that in exchange for your own DIY skills and time it costs less than half what pedal meters would cost. But I found out the company folded, the app isn't supported anymore meaning you can't calibrate the unit, so you might end up being unable to do anything with one of the units you happen to come across. Brutal! https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/02/watteam-powerbeat-gen2-power-meter-in-depth-review.html https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/02/watteam-powerbeat-gen2-p...
CraigJPerry 6y ago
>> I recently got a baby monitor ... no security implications. There’s one somewhere near me that broadcasts crystal clear audio on 49.990MHz - right smack on the edge of the 6 metre band in very crisp 15khz wide FM. This audio quality beats all my local ham radio buddies. I can hear a pin drop in their house. I’ve no idea who’s house, briefly before the pandemic i made a reasonable effort to track down the house and let them know, it’s not a house in my street, no one has the young children that can be heard. Every time I’m on 6m i always see it on my band scope, 20db over.
- TrainedMonkey 6y ago
  I don't recommend you do it, but engineer in me is trying to find technical solutions to all problems. If you can hear them presumably they can hear you on the same frequency. So you could get in contact by broadcasting on the same frequency. You can already hear them on the radio, so if they hear you on a child monitor that would be a weird-but-functional walkie talkie setup. Depending on where you are, it's possible that stress from knowing that their child monitor is unsecured is much higher than the risk of anyone within broadcast range abusing the vulnerability. Moreover, it's possible that whatever they replace the device with will have more significant problems to worry about. For example cloud vulnerable to the whole world instead of enthusiasts with radios in a small local area.

walterbell 6y ago

> I'm increasingly appreciating "appliance" electronics. Things that do one thing well. Plus dedicated physical buttons! FiiO provides a rotary volume control on their flagship $1000 player, https://audiosolace.com/2020/09/04/fiio-m15-review/ https://audiosolace.com/2020/09/04/fiio-m15-review/

alpaca128 6y ago
They also put a rotary volume control on my external DAC/headphone amp that cost a tiny fraction. And I must say I love that now I don't have to choose between two volume levels which are either a bit too quiet or a bit too loud. And that no software automatically dials back the volume every 10-15 minutes with a notification telling me that it's convinced I'm damaging my ears.

petepete 6y ago

I feel like this every time I use my cameras. They do one thing and do it exceedingly well. They feel like _tools_ rather than gadgets or devices.

tiagod 6y ago

>no security implications It's broadcasting video through some unknown protocol, are you sure it's (properly) encrypting it?

jtsiskin 6y ago
It’s sounds like it’s closed loop, and not connected to the internet/WiFi. I would say that makes it thousands of times less likely to be hacked, even if there was some fundamental issue with the encryption.
AlexandrB 6y ago
Even a fully unencrypted local video feed would require someone to park outside your house for the duration of the broadcast to capture it all. Meanwhile, in the cloud, user data sometimes gets dumped into unsecured S3 buckets that anyone in the world could access. Even if the video is properly secured, there's no guarantee the service in question is not keeping it indefinitely for marketing/machine-learning/other purposes and it eventually leaks in a security breach.

tediousdemise 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_and_Do_It_Well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_a...

voisin 6y ago

I think a lot of consumers are going to wake up in a few years and feel ripped off when their smart thermostat or smart lock or smart lights are no longer supported and have lost the functionality they’ve paid extra for. I miss the days when you pay for some set of functionality and it stays with the device for the duration of ownership. The standard seems to be to buy on one set of value propositions and to find them degraded over time (see Peloton eliminating Apple Watch support for all exercises but cycling this week as a recent example). I think this is what makes Tesla special with regular OTA updates increasing functionality.

Workaccount2 6y ago
Especially with the rising cancer known as SaaS. Soon you'll need to be paying $10/mo for your thermostat to work, and you'll need to fork over another $200 every other year to upgrade the hardware.
- voisin 6y ago
  And then the company will be purchased by a FAANG and you will immediately be forced into using new accounts and new workflows for the same functionality (yes, suddenly thermostats have workflows now...)
  - devenblake 6y ago
    It's a small price to pay for the new Amazon Lord of the RingsTM television event where everyone's heaters will kick on at max whenever there's fire on screen.
- ahepp 6y ago
  This is actually an improvement. It aligns the incentives of the guys making your thermostat's web UI. Otherwise your thermostat wouldn't get new features and security updates
  - goodpoint 6y ago
    No, I want security updates without surveillance, without lock-in and without a monthly fee. Sounds like too much to ask? This is what Linux distributions has been providing for decades. And my 486 PC was less powerful than some thermostat.

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

>No software, no app, no security implications. I can give it to someone else and it'll work for them too. Is it like a wired connection between the Camera and the Monitor?

1-more 6y ago

I was recently shopping for bicycle power meters because I want to know exactly how bad I am at pretending cars don't exist (I'm slow, folks). There's been an explosion in direct-to-consumer companies making them. I was looking at a self-installed crank strain gauge model where the tradeoff is that in exchange for your own DIY skills and time it costs less than half what pedal meters would cost. But I found out the company folded, the app isn't supported anymore meaning you can't calibrate the unit, so you might end up being unable to do anything with one of the units you happen to come across. Brutal! https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/02/watteam-powerbeat-gen2-power-meter-in-depth-review.html https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/02/watteam-powerbeat-gen2-p...

CraigJPerry 6y ago

>> I recently got a baby monitor ... no security implications. There’s one somewhere near me that broadcasts crystal clear audio on 49.990MHz - right smack on the edge of the 6 metre band in very crisp 15khz wide FM. This audio quality beats all my local ham radio buddies. I can hear a pin drop in their house. I’ve no idea who’s house, briefly before the pandemic i made a reasonable effort to track down the house and let them know, it’s not a house in my street, no one has the young children that can be heard. Every time I’m on 6m i always see it on my band scope, 20db over.

TrainedMonkey 6y ago
I don't recommend you do it, but engineer in me is trying to find technical solutions to all problems. If you can hear them presumably they can hear you on the same frequency. So you could get in contact by broadcasting on the same frequency. You can already hear them on the radio, so if they hear you on a child monitor that would be a weird-but-functional walkie talkie setup. Depending on where you are, it's possible that stress from knowing that their child monitor is unsecured is much higher than the risk of anyone within broadcast range abusing the vulnerability. Moreover, it's possible that whatever they replace the device with will have more significant problems to worry about. For example cloud vulnerable to the whole world instead of enthusiasts with radios in a small local area.