5 ms·

> For historical reasons, there are no sharps or flats between the notes B/C, and E/F. Come on, that is not for "historical reasons", that is because those not

by goto11 6y ago

> For historical reasons, there are no sharps or flats between the notes B/C, and E/F. Come on, that is not for "historical reasons", that is because those notes are only one semitone apart!

harry8 6y ago
Different way of saying the same thing. "For historical reasons the notes B/C and E/F are one semitone apart."
- goto11 6y ago
  But that is not for historical reasons, that is due to the universal mathematical properties of the intervals. The names of the notes and scales are due to historical reasons, but a major third and a fourth is one semitone apart due to math, not history.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kaoD 6y ago
    What the article means is: we dont have 12 notes (A B C D E F G H I J K L). Instead, for historical reasons (the choice of CMaj/Amin as a reference due to the notation evolution from heptatonic scales) we have A B C D E F G and we annotate with accidentals but, since those are not evenly spaced, there are some missing "black keys" there. Also, what devnonymous says, which I agree with too (but that's another story...)
devnonymous 6y ago
The idea of a semitone in Western classical music is historical not (just) tonal.
- goto11 6y ago
  True, but that does not mean you can just space notes in a scale randomly.
  - devnonymous 6y ago
    Hmm, I guess someone should tell those people, like Like Tolgahan Çoğulu who are writing music in microtonal scales with 19, 24 or 31 notes in a scale, that their notes spacing is random. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_tone_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_tone_system
    - goto11 6y ago
      The spacings are not random, they are still based on ratios. They just include more intervals in (what we call) the octave. The linked article actually explains the math pretty well.
      - devnonymous 6y ago
        Ah alright, I finally understand you. What you meant to say is the reason why Western classical music is built on the 12 note chromatic scale is because the musicians used the math! It has nothing to do with history. Sound about right?
        goto11 6y ago
        Not exactly, although I think I understand what you are getting at. What I meant was that the interval between a major third and fourth in a 12-tone chromatic scale has to be a semitone due to math, not due to some historical accident or decision. It might be an accident of history that we use a 12-step scale in the first place though, since you can have arbitrary many intervals in an octave - but you can't just divide the octave in arbitrarily places and get music out of it. The intervals still have to be ratios. (Well I'm sure some avant-garde composer have tried making music with intervals that are not ratios just to be clever, but I hope you get my point!)

by goto11 6y ago

> For historical reasons, there are no sharps or flats between the notes B/C, and E/F. Come on, that is not for "historical reasons", that is because those notes are only one semitone apart!

harry8 6y ago

Different way of saying the same thing. "For historical reasons the notes B/C and E/F are one semitone apart."

goto11 6y ago
But that is not for historical reasons, that is due to the universal mathematical properties of the intervals. The names of the notes and scales are due to historical reasons, but a major third and a fourth is one semitone apart due to math, not history.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kaoD 6y ago
  What the article means is: we dont have 12 notes (A B C D E F G H I J K L). Instead, for historical reasons (the choice of CMaj/Amin as a reference due to the notation evolution from heptatonic scales) we have A B C D E F G and we annotate with accidentals but, since those are not evenly spaced, there are some missing "black keys" there. Also, what devnonymous says, which I agree with too (but that's another story...)

devnonymous 6y ago

The idea of a semitone in Western classical music is historical not (just) tonal.

goto11 6y ago
True, but that does not mean you can just space notes in a scale randomly.
- devnonymous 6y ago
  Hmm, I guess someone should tell those people, like Like Tolgahan Çoğulu who are writing music in microtonal scales with 19, 24 or 31 notes in a scale, that their notes spacing is random. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_equal_temperament https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_tone_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_tone_system
  - goto11 6y ago
    The spacings are not random, they are still based on ratios. They just include more intervals in (what we call) the octave. The linked article actually explains the math pretty well.
    - devnonymous 6y ago
      Ah alright, I finally understand you. What you meant to say is the reason why Western classical music is built on the 12 note chromatic scale is because the musicians used the math! It has nothing to do with history. Sound about right?
      - goto11 6y ago
        Not exactly, although I think I understand what you are getting at. What I meant was that the interval between a major third and fourth in a 12-tone chromatic scale has to be a semitone due to math, not due to some historical accident or decision. It might be an accident of history that we use a 12-step scale in the first place though, since you can have arbitrary many intervals in an octave - but you can't just divide the octave in arbitrarily places and get music out of it. The intervals still have to be ratios. (Well I'm sure some avant-garde composer have tried making music with intervals that are not ratios just to be clever, but I hope you get my point!)