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Thanks for sharing your perspective. As somebody living in the west, I wholeheartedly agree. We've known since the 80s our fossil economy is slow-cooking the pl

Thanks for sharing your perspective. As somebody living in the west, I wholeheartedly agree. We've known since the 80s our fossil economy is slow-cooking the planet, yet we protest when other countries try to climb out of poverty using the same tools. Indeed, the west should think of ways in leveling the LCOE playing field in the third world through financial and material support.

Gustomaximus 5y ago
> yet we protest when other countries try to climb out of poverty using the same tools. I dont like this view, nor think its fair. ~100 years ago todays developed countries didn't have access to anything like the modern knowledge or scientific consensus about climate change as well as alternate technology / products. Even 30 years ago.... And making this 'but you did it' claim seems cherry picking. These countries take full advantage of the beneficial modern knowledge and equipment like computers. If countries want to justify pouting like the industrial revolution because you did too, then get rid of computers and other tech and have the same journey otherwise accept this is a choice you make today and there is no excuse other than you want to and to hell with the climate science. And lets also recognise power generation solar is increasingly cheaper than coal so there is likely vested interest pushing government down this path even if we disregard the moral/historic side first google (so forgive if not the best) but these studies come up all the time: e.g. https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2020/Jun/Renewables-Increasingly-Beat-Even-Cheapest-Coal-Competitors-on-Cost https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2020/Jun/Renewa... tldr: I dont buy this excuse. It sounds fair as a quick one liner but doesnt fly when you consider the detail
- piokoch 5y ago
  Yes, but you need to face reality. US, Germany can afford spending huge amounts of money for renewable energy, but many countries just can't. Worst, India at least recognized that they can't afford that, but for instance Poland signed European version of a "green deal", which costs are estimated to be 0.4 trillion US dollars (according to Polish gov estimates) up to 1 trillion according to McKinsey Consulting. This is roughly 2-4 times Polish GDP. EU funds will cover about 20% of that sum. Poland will not be able to afford to spend that much money without rising energy prices to the exorbitant level (and because of CO2 certificates they are already the highest in Europe), which means less competitive economy, which means less money in people pocket, which means huge group of electorate angry at democracy and EU. This cannot end well.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    If this results in an increase in the total investment rate there won't be any people left to be angry in Poland.
  - Gustomaximus 5y ago
    > Germany can afford spending huge amounts of money for renewable energy, but many countries just can't. This skips the part where renewable is cheaper.... if a nation can afford a coal power plant, why can they afford the equivalent generation capacity of solar/wind?
- Xplune13 5y ago
  The thing that enrages me is that these "developed" countries just accuse developing nations of polluting while NOT acknowledging that they did 10x worse before. Those developed nations are not saint and won't ever be yet they act as if they care so much about other nations and environment when they do not. Also, this argument of "get ride of modern equipment and have the same journey" is weak at best. Although I agree that climate change didn't pick up until a decade or so ago, there were already studies conducted in late 1800s and early 1900s. edit: I'm not saying that what India is doing is right. It's just that the comments like the parent comment are laughable in my opinion.

Gustomaximus 5y ago

> yet we protest when other countries try to climb out of poverty using the same tools. I dont like this view, nor think its fair. ~100 years ago todays developed countries didn't have access to anything like the modern knowledge or scientific consensus about climate change as well as alternate technology / products. Even 30 years ago.... And making this 'but you did it' claim seems cherry picking. These countries take full advantage of the beneficial modern knowledge and equipment like computers. If countries want to justify pouting like the industrial revolution because you did too, then get rid of computers and other tech and have the same journey otherwise accept this is a choice you make today and there is no excuse other than you want to and to hell with the climate science. And lets also recognise power generation solar is increasingly cheaper than coal so there is likely vested interest pushing government down this path even if we disregard the moral/historic side first google (so forgive if not the best) but these studies come up all the time: e.g. https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2020/Jun/Renewables-Increasingly-Beat-Even-Cheapest-Coal-Competitors-on-Cost https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2020/Jun/Renewa... tldr: I dont buy this excuse. It sounds fair as a quick one liner but doesnt fly when you consider the detail

piokoch 5y ago
Yes, but you need to face reality. US, Germany can afford spending huge amounts of money for renewable energy, but many countries just can't. Worst, India at least recognized that they can't afford that, but for instance Poland signed European version of a "green deal", which costs are estimated to be 0.4 trillion US dollars (according to Polish gov estimates) up to 1 trillion according to McKinsey Consulting. This is roughly 2-4 times Polish GDP. EU funds will cover about 20% of that sum. Poland will not be able to afford to spend that much money without rising energy prices to the exorbitant level (and because of CO2 certificates they are already the highest in Europe), which means less competitive economy, which means less money in people pocket, which means huge group of electorate angry at democracy and EU. This cannot end well.
- imtringued 5y ago
  If this results in an increase in the total investment rate there won't be any people left to be angry in Poland.
- Gustomaximus 5y ago
  > Germany can afford spending huge amounts of money for renewable energy, but many countries just can't. This skips the part where renewable is cheaper.... if a nation can afford a coal power plant, why can they afford the equivalent generation capacity of solar/wind?
Xplune13 5y ago
The thing that enrages me is that these "developed" countries just accuse developing nations of polluting while NOT acknowledging that they did 10x worse before. Those developed nations are not saint and won't ever be yet they act as if they care so much about other nations and environment when they do not. Also, this argument of "get ride of modern equipment and have the same journey" is weak at best. Although I agree that climate change didn't pick up until a decade or so ago, there were already studies conducted in late 1800s and early 1900s. edit: I'm not saying that what India is doing is right. It's just that the comments like the parent comment are laughable in my opinion.