4 ms·

People in the comments seem to be oversimplifying this, as the question itself is complex and interesting. Tourism can decrease housing supply, making is less

People in the comments seem to be oversimplifying this, as the question itself is complex and interesting. Tourism can decrease housing supply, making is less affordable for long-term tenants. At the same time it can also increases city and local business revenues. This is a tradeoff that cities should consider and decide where they want to stand. Of course if you have unbounded house construction policy, than tourism would not effect long-term housing prices much (Though it can impact price distribution in terms of location). But such policy might be impossible in historical city centers such as Paris where buildings have historical value, and are probably one of the reasons for tourism in the first place. On the other hand, short-term housing, especially through things like Airbnb, can often be offered by people who just have a spare room and who otherwise would not bother renting it out. Allocating this type of housing to tourists might not hurt the housing market by a lot. (Though I do wonder what percentage of Airbnbs actually have such a situation)

ErikVandeWater 6y ago
> But such policy might be impossible in historical city centers such as Paris where buildings have historical value, and are probably one of the reasons for tourism in the first place. How many percent of buildings have any significant historical value? Maybe 2%?
- HWR_14 6y ago
  Have specific historic value? Probably very few. But if they were replaced by generic high rises it would eliminate that Parisian feeling. They could let more people live in Venice by fixing the sinking and filling the canals, but that doesn't seem worth it.
  - ErikVandeWater 6y ago
    > if they were replaced by generic high rises That's a false dichotomy. New buildings could replace old buildings while maintaining the same style.
    - HWR_14 6y ago
      >> if they were replaced by generic high rises >That's a false dichotomy. New buildings could replace old buildings while maintaining the same style. If it's the same style, than it will have similar or the same occupancy. More dense housing will simply look different. It will have to.
- matkoniecz 6y ago
  In Kraków Old Town? Around 99% (also it is UNESCO World Heritage Site and so on) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w_Old_Town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w_Old_Town https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.06160/19.93683 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.06160/19.93683 And "rebuild most of city due to tourism" has its own costs. I would prefer to simply have less of a tourism. For start remove nasty parts like stag/hen parties and people traveling here because alcohol is cheap, they are anyway providing only worst kind of jobs. Maybe make city famous that being drunk, yelling and vomiting during night causes you to be stopped by police? And dumb parties of "rent a roofless car, drive around and be loud during middle of the night" type gets ruined?
Udik 6y ago
> Tourism can decrease housing supply, making is less affordable for long-term tenants. I'm not sure what's the size of this effect though. I've heard people making comparisons like "1/3 of the apartments for rent at any given moment is short term"- which doesn't make sense, as it ignores the amount of properties rented for long term that are currently not on the market (while a short term rental is always on the market). What I think is that it makes owning a house more attractive, because the possibility of renting it out now and then lowers the cost of ownership. And thus it increases property values.
baby 6y ago
This ^ people don't realize that airbnb is amazing for tourism in a city.
- soco 6y ago
  Amazing as in bringing in some money? Yes. Amazing as in overcrowding its center with souvenir booths, replacing grocery shops with party pubs, changing neighbors every week? Less so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtourism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtourism
xiphias2 6y ago
Budapest's mayor was speaking about a problem, where short term rentals are taxed much lower in Hungary than long term rentals (because the tax law was written by/for hotel owners) which makes living in Budapest really hard for people. I'm not sure if the situation is the same in other countries, but this should be reversed to make the city livable again for people without a home.
matkoniecz 6y ago
Note that you miss part of problem that goes like "neighboring apartment is now hotel used for stag/hen parties with loud noises and vomit spread around, residents changing every two days and there is nothing that I can do with it". > Of course if you have unbounded house construction policy, than tourism would not effect long-term housing prices much (1) How long-term? If it will take 20 years for correction to complete then it severely harms people living there right now. > Though I do wonder what percentage of Airbnbs actually have such a situation AFAIK right now it is tiny unimportant part.

ErikVandeWater 6y ago

> But such policy might be impossible in historical city centers such as Paris where buildings have historical value, and are probably one of the reasons for tourism in the first place. How many percent of buildings have any significant historical value? Maybe 2%?

HWR_14 6y ago
Have specific historic value? Probably very few. But if they were replaced by generic high rises it would eliminate that Parisian feeling. They could let more people live in Venice by fixing the sinking and filling the canals, but that doesn't seem worth it.
- ErikVandeWater 6y ago
  > if they were replaced by generic high rises That's a false dichotomy. New buildings could replace old buildings while maintaining the same style.
  - HWR_14 6y ago
    >> if they were replaced by generic high rises >That's a false dichotomy. New buildings could replace old buildings while maintaining the same style. If it's the same style, than it will have similar or the same occupancy. More dense housing will simply look different. It will have to.
matkoniecz 6y ago
In Kraków Old Town? Around 99% (also it is UNESCO World Heritage Site and so on) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w_Old_Town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w_Old_Town https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.06160/19.93683 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.06160/19.93683 And "rebuild most of city due to tourism" has its own costs. I would prefer to simply have less of a tourism. For start remove nasty parts like stag/hen parties and people traveling here because alcohol is cheap, they are anyway providing only worst kind of jobs. Maybe make city famous that being drunk, yelling and vomiting during night causes you to be stopped by police? And dumb parties of "rent a roofless car, drive around and be loud during middle of the night" type gets ruined?

Udik 6y ago

> Tourism can decrease housing supply, making is less affordable for long-term tenants. I'm not sure what's the size of this effect though. I've heard people making comparisons like "1/3 of the apartments for rent at any given moment is short term"- which doesn't make sense, as it ignores the amount of properties rented for long term that are currently not on the market (while a short term rental is always on the market). What I think is that it makes owning a house more attractive, because the possibility of renting it out now and then lowers the cost of ownership. And thus it increases property values.

baby 6y ago

This ^ people don't realize that airbnb is amazing for tourism in a city.

soco 6y ago
Amazing as in bringing in some money? Yes. Amazing as in overcrowding its center with souvenir booths, replacing grocery shops with party pubs, changing neighbors every week? Less so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtourism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtourism

xiphias2 6y ago

Budapest's mayor was speaking about a problem, where short term rentals are taxed much lower in Hungary than long term rentals (because the tax law was written by/for hotel owners) which makes living in Budapest really hard for people. I'm not sure if the situation is the same in other countries, but this should be reversed to make the city livable again for people without a home.

matkoniecz 6y ago

Note that you miss part of problem that goes like "neighboring apartment is now hotel used for stag/hen parties with loud noises and vomit spread around, residents changing every two days and there is nothing that I can do with it". > Of course if you have unbounded house construction policy, than tourism would not effect long-term housing prices much (1) How long-term? If it will take 20 years for correction to complete then it severely harms people living there right now. > Though I do wonder what percentage of Airbnbs actually have such a situation AFAIK right now it is tiny unimportant part.