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It's not. That is an independent contractor relationship. Employment means you play ball for the stability of the paycheck. If you want to throw a tantrum every

It's not. That is an independent contractor relationship. Employment means you play ball for the stability of the paycheck. If you want to throw a tantrum every time you feel slighted, you shouldn't commit to a full-time permanent job. Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider. They don't always have to share that with you. It's a nice idealistic view to think otherwise, and I truly hope you always find work in places like that. But this is not the lived reality for the majority of people, and it's actually not a bad thing.

anticristi 5y ago
I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. But. Do. Not. Ever. Touch. My. Compensation! Being promised 100% but arbitrarily receiving 30% would be a no-go for me.
- duckfang 5y ago
  > I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. That's a really hot take. That shows that the company is very fickle and very bad about planning. And frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear if they badly planned a business meeting on my vacation and then expect me to attend. Now, given my position, I specialize in "accidents" or the recovery of. I get paid well for that. And I can decide when and what my schedule looks like. Outside of that and the appropriate pay for that skill, I expect my hours to be stable and consistent. In exchange, I will deliver consistently and stably and get money for that. Tl;dr. Touching my hours (aside real unplanned disasters) IS touching my compensation, and you will not do this without appropriate offsets.
  - anticristi 5y ago
    I should probably add that given the amount of holidays / parental leave we get in Sweden, these interruptions feel like a refreshing break from holidays. :)) But I agree with you. "Available randomly" is something I charge for.
kaba0 5y ago
Boss-employee relationship goes both ways. They pay me because of my work/because I am valuable. From the story, the poster was valuable (otherwise the boss would not have paid him/her out). > Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider And that is entirely his/her thing. If I was promised this and that for a given task, I should be getting it, even at the detriment of the company, his her own paycheck, whatever. I am not responsible for the well-being of a company, it’s not your “family”. Of course, during unexpected events (like COVID), things like an OPTIONAL temporary pay reduction for every employee (very much including the bosses themselves) is acceptable, and I think any employee planning to stay there will gladly accept such if the leadership is otherwise not exploitive/fair.
- forgingahead 5y ago
  "Value" does not just comprise of "coding ability". "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. If they somehow get hired because that quality was hidden somehow during the interview process, the moment it surfaced, there would be behind-the-scenes discussions on how to cut that person from the team or company, because they are destroying morale with the rest of the team. I am intrigued by the downvotes, because I am not saying anything controversial or disconnected from reality. People may not like it, but if they're so sure of their position, I do encourage them to put an equivalent line of the counter-argument on their resume when they're applying for their next job. One more point: I make my comments having done all sides: Employee, independent contractor, employer. You are never prevented from leaving to start your own thing, as the original commenter indicated. But harbour no illusions that working full time for someone in an employment agreement allows you to act like you're an independent contractor that can randomly walk away. You can certainly give your two weeks notice and do so, but after the 2nd time, you'll be radioactive in the job market.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    > "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. I do agree with you that not only technical abilities are considered, for good reason. But not standing up for ourselves and letting us being bullied and exploited by higher ups is not an attitude in my book. We may have read the story very differently, and of course we only got one viewpoint on what happened. But I think you would agree that there are exploitive bosses (just as there are many great leaders), and there are many who simply can’t stand up for themselves in a corporate environment.
matkoniecz 5y ago
> They don't always have to share that with you How that is related to fact that employee can resign from work if they want?

anticristi 5y ago

I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. But. Do. Not. Ever. Touch. My. Compensation! Being promised 100% but arbitrarily receiving 30% would be a no-go for me.

duckfang 5y ago
> I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. That's a really hot take. That shows that the company is very fickle and very bad about planning. And frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear if they badly planned a business meeting on my vacation and then expect me to attend. Now, given my position, I specialize in "accidents" or the recovery of. I get paid well for that. And I can decide when and what my schedule looks like. Outside of that and the appropriate pay for that skill, I expect my hours to be stable and consistent. In exchange, I will deliver consistently and stably and get money for that. Tl;dr. Touching my hours (aside real unplanned disasters) IS touching my compensation, and you will not do this without appropriate offsets.
- anticristi 5y ago
  I should probably add that given the amount of holidays / parental leave we get in Sweden, these interruptions feel like a refreshing break from holidays. :)) But I agree with you. "Available randomly" is something I charge for.

kaba0 5y ago

Boss-employee relationship goes both ways. They pay me because of my work/because I am valuable. From the story, the poster was valuable (otherwise the boss would not have paid him/her out). > Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider And that is entirely his/her thing. If I was promised this and that for a given task, I should be getting it, even at the detriment of the company, his her own paycheck, whatever. I am not responsible for the well-being of a company, it’s not your “family”. Of course, during unexpected events (like COVID), things like an OPTIONAL temporary pay reduction for every employee (very much including the bosses themselves) is acceptable, and I think any employee planning to stay there will gladly accept such if the leadership is otherwise not exploitive/fair.

forgingahead 5y ago
"Value" does not just comprise of "coding ability". "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. If they somehow get hired because that quality was hidden somehow during the interview process, the moment it surfaced, there would be behind-the-scenes discussions on how to cut that person from the team or company, because they are destroying morale with the rest of the team. I am intrigued by the downvotes, because I am not saying anything controversial or disconnected from reality. People may not like it, but if they're so sure of their position, I do encourage them to put an equivalent line of the counter-argument on their resume when they're applying for their next job. One more point: I make my comments having done all sides: Employee, independent contractor, employer. You are never prevented from leaving to start your own thing, as the original commenter indicated. But harbour no illusions that working full time for someone in an employment agreement allows you to act like you're an independent contractor that can randomly walk away. You can certainly give your two weeks notice and do so, but after the 2nd time, you'll be radioactive in the job market.
- kaba0 5y ago
  > "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. I do agree with you that not only technical abilities are considered, for good reason. But not standing up for ourselves and letting us being bullied and exploited by higher ups is not an attitude in my book. We may have read the story very differently, and of course we only got one viewpoint on what happened. But I think you would agree that there are exploitive bosses (just as there are many great leaders), and there are many who simply can’t stand up for themselves in a corporate environment.

matkoniecz 5y ago

> They don't always have to share that with you How that is related to fact that employee can resign from work if they want?