8 ms·

Nil-by-mouth foodie: A chef who will never eat again

pizza 5y ago
The sectioning bit is truly disturbing.
Melting_Harps 5y ago
As a former/retired chef, who mainly got into food for the sheer glutinous delight that only slightly justifies enduring the backbreaking Industry, this is truly a cruel fate but may have been for the best if she had to deal with eating disorders and mental health issues. Untreated mental illness is the norm in that Industry, as is substance abuse and suicide. So given the abuse (physical and mental) in addition to her eating disorder and mental health problems chances are she probably wouldn't have made her first year working line without severe consequences. Culinary school often depicts a false-reality of the Industry, and rarely do most of its graduates fare better than a seasoned cook who made his way up from the dish pit/prep cook in my experience, because doing that at least vets people who actually can still show up after what is a romanticized view of an abusive, low paying, high stress work environment. I'm glad she was able to identify her illness and despite this affliction she was able to persevere and live her Life as best she can but their are likely no words to adequately describe the ordeal this would do to a cook despite this journalist's best attempts. I normally dismiss Social Media as a viable means for non-vanity based, shallow, vapid forms of communication and will often refer to it as the cesspool that it is, but I'm glad this was there to help her recover. Especially since COVID killed most people's social life.
- jka 5y ago
  Have you heard of / do you have any opinions on Unichef (UK)? ( https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/about-unichef/ https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/about-unichef/ ) (I'm a software developer curious about food technology, and interested in the industry, problems, and potential improvements)
  - Melting_Harps 5y ago
    > Have you heard of... Vaguely from this [0], and I find rather it painfully ironic that one of the supporters (Bourdain) of that book died from suicide in what was likely ongoing depression and unresolved mental health isses that led to former bouts with substance abuse in addition to a horrible catastrophic relationship spat occurring in public. Personally speaking when I first read Kitchen Confidential when I was a prep cook in catering during university I knew he was very likely going to take his life. As a former developer myself, smart contract/blockchain stuff, with an emphasis in Supply Chain with several years in the Auto Industry, my opinion their is really not much that can be solved with software alone before the underlying machinations and culture of the Culinary Industry itself is resolved. COVID was a real wake up call, but not much has changed from what my former colleagues tell me, other than a slight pay raise ($1-2) for tenured and seasoned cooks. That was hard to justify from management during 50% capacity most of the country is still dealing with. We had touch-screens to manage our individual orders/tickets on our station to help expo streamline things, and while that was interesting (my station's screen had a tendency to disconnect in the middle of service when things got super heated or wet from a persistent leak) and gave us a little autonomy to coordinate with the other stations it could and often created more problems than solved if the expo was mediocre which is why they got rid of them. Maybe if you focus on tax or payroll related stuff for accounting, especially with how to deal with PPP? Also if you can find a way to lower food losses/costs that could be incredibly useful? But all of this could and should be done with creative menu offerings that utilize the 'scrap' and upsale the protein in another dish. 0: https://www.instyle.com/news/40-chefs-share-their-favorite-comfort-foods-benefit-unicef-and-children-need https://www.instyle.com/news/40-chefs-share-their-favorite-c...
    - jka 5y ago
      Thanks! My view has been fairly limited, from (rarely) cooking at home, and where 'locally sourced' tends to mean 'walking to the shops' instead of any kind of vendor relationships. What's the PPP challenge you mentioned, and (at the risk of sounding like I'm stealing your ideas; not my intent, I'd prefer to read and reflect them out here) what would you change about the industry culture if you could?
- senectus1 5y ago
  I've worked in the hospitality trade for about a decade before i got in IT. The hospitality industry is a shadowy, drug and crime filled industry. Its truly disturbing know what shit goes on in our food production area's.
_cs2017_ 5y ago
On top of the tragic circumstances outside of anyone's control, it's mind-boggling how much unnecessary pain and suffering was caused by the medical system. Given that the UK is one of the better countries in medical care quality, why are things still so bad? I understand the disease is rare, but even if it's not diagnosed, surely there's a way to realize that they are just torturing the patient? Also: > On average it takes 10 to 14 years for people to be diagnosed Why so long? The global databases of medical information should contain the relevant symptoms, right?
- epmaybe 5y ago
  Read the next part of that statement in the article... On average it takes 10 to 14 years for people to be diagnosed, says Dr Alan Hakim of the Ehlers-Danlos Society, because the symptoms of hEDS are so varied and may not appear to be linked Imagine you’re a doctor and a young woman comes in cause they aren’t eating. What’s at the top of your differential? Anorexia, certainly Cancer, potentially Diabetes leading to gastroparesis? Unlikely, but let’s keep it on Ok so you try and treat anorexia, and it didn’t work (except, it did? The article wasn’t clear). Was it terrible that nobody took her at her word and worked this up? Absolutely. What else do you work up? You do a colonoscopy or upper endoscopy, you take samples of your intestine (which looked fine under the microscope most likely), you do some ct scans, and you do a gastric emptying study to make sure food is moving through intestines appropriately. I don’t really know where I’m going with this, other than to say you’re right that we should be better, and not cause suffering. But hindsight is 20/20
  - Buttons840 5y ago
    There is always the possibility that we just won't know the cause of some medical symptoms no matter how much we test and investigate. My question is, how often will we "just not know"? So the doctors do some common tests and still don't know what's going on. From there, what are the odds that further tests will reach a helpful diagnosis, and what are the odds we will just never find anything helpful no matter how much we test and check?
    - 5y ago
DoreenMichele 5y ago
Oh, good lord, they tortured her and assumed she was just stubbornly "behaving badly" because "crazy." I'm appalled but a lot of the elements of her story are all too familiar. "You are just crazy" is a common accusation for anyone doctors can't readily diagnose and it's a horrible, horrible experience.
- unanswered 5y ago
  Every person involved should be criminally charged for kidnapping and torture. But they never will be, because they're just "doing their jobs" and "part of the system", and the main purpose and function of "the system" is to isolate its cogs from responsibility.
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  Yup, this is par for the course. The docs are going to think psych over zebra. That goes on until you get lucky and find a doc who actually listens and understands--and I suspect for many patients that day never comes. Especially if you don't fit one of the already-diagnosed rare problems.
- jmole 5y ago
  I felt this in my bones. I’ll tell a doctor that almost anything I eat makes me feel bad, and when I don’t eat anything at all (which of course is not sustainable), I have amazing amounts of energy and can actually think clearly. Then I get the look. I can see the thought process in their head: ...must be an eating disorder... Immediately followed by, “has your weight changed recently?”
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    Yeah, I have a genetic disorder that impacts gut function. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my mid thirties. I was a bag of bones as a child because of it and teased because of that. I have belly bloat as a side effect and have long had to deal with the negative attitudes about weight in the US. Etc. Ad nauseam.
tibbydudeza 5y ago
I wonder what her gut now does that it no longer receives any sort of stimuli in the form of digestion - hunger is partly driven by how empty your stomach and gut is ???.

The sectioning bit is truly disturbing.

As a former/retired chef, who mainly got into food for the sheer glutinous delight that only slightly justifies enduring the backbreaking Industry, this is truly a cruel fate but may have been for the best if she had to deal with eating disorders and mental health issues. Untreated mental illness is the norm in that Industry, as is substance abuse and suicide. So given the abuse (physical and mental) in addition to her eating disorder and mental health problems chances are she probably wouldn't have made her first year working line without severe consequences. Culinary school often depicts a false-reality of the Industry, and rarely do most of its graduates fare better than a seasoned cook who made his way up from the dish pit/prep cook in my experience, because doing that at least vets people who actually can still show up after what is a romanticized view of an abusive, low paying, high stress work environment. I'm glad she was able to identify her illness and despite this affliction she was able to persevere and live her Life as best she can but their are likely no words to adequately describe the ordeal this would do to a cook despite this journalist's best attempts. I normally dismiss Social Media as a viable means for non-vanity based, shallow, vapid forms of communication and will often refer to it as the cesspool that it is, but I'm glad this was there to help her recover. Especially since COVID killed most people's social life.

jka 5y ago
Have you heard of / do you have any opinions on Unichef (UK)? ( https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/about-unichef/ https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/about-unichef/ ) (I'm a software developer curious about food technology, and interested in the industry, problems, and potential improvements)
- Melting_Harps 5y ago
  > Have you heard of... Vaguely from this [0], and I find rather it painfully ironic that one of the supporters (Bourdain) of that book died from suicide in what was likely ongoing depression and unresolved mental health isses that led to former bouts with substance abuse in addition to a horrible catastrophic relationship spat occurring in public. Personally speaking when I first read Kitchen Confidential when I was a prep cook in catering during university I knew he was very likely going to take his life. As a former developer myself, smart contract/blockchain stuff, with an emphasis in Supply Chain with several years in the Auto Industry, my opinion their is really not much that can be solved with software alone before the underlying machinations and culture of the Culinary Industry itself is resolved. COVID was a real wake up call, but not much has changed from what my former colleagues tell me, other than a slight pay raise ($1-2) for tenured and seasoned cooks. That was hard to justify from management during 50% capacity most of the country is still dealing with. We had touch-screens to manage our individual orders/tickets on our station to help expo streamline things, and while that was interesting (my station's screen had a tendency to disconnect in the middle of service when things got super heated or wet from a persistent leak) and gave us a little autonomy to coordinate with the other stations it could and often created more problems than solved if the expo was mediocre which is why they got rid of them. Maybe if you focus on tax or payroll related stuff for accounting, especially with how to deal with PPP? Also if you can find a way to lower food losses/costs that could be incredibly useful? But all of this could and should be done with creative menu offerings that utilize the 'scrap' and upsale the protein in another dish. 0: https://www.instyle.com/news/40-chefs-share-their-favorite-comfort-foods-benefit-unicef-and-children-need https://www.instyle.com/news/40-chefs-share-their-favorite-c...
  - jka 5y ago
    Thanks! My view has been fairly limited, from (rarely) cooking at home, and where 'locally sourced' tends to mean 'walking to the shops' instead of any kind of vendor relationships. What's the PPP challenge you mentioned, and (at the risk of sounding like I'm stealing your ideas; not my intent, I'd prefer to read and reflect them out here) what would you change about the industry culture if you could?
senectus1 5y ago
I've worked in the hospitality trade for about a decade before i got in IT. The hospitality industry is a shadowy, drug and crime filled industry. Its truly disturbing know what shit goes on in our food production area's.

_cs2017_ 5y ago

On top of the tragic circumstances outside of anyone's control, it's mind-boggling how much unnecessary pain and suffering was caused by the medical system. Given that the UK is one of the better countries in medical care quality, why are things still so bad? I understand the disease is rare, but even if it's not diagnosed, surely there's a way to realize that they are just torturing the patient? Also: > On average it takes 10 to 14 years for people to be diagnosed Why so long? The global databases of medical information should contain the relevant symptoms, right?

epmaybe 5y ago
Read the next part of that statement in the article... On average it takes 10 to 14 years for people to be diagnosed, says Dr Alan Hakim of the Ehlers-Danlos Society, because the symptoms of hEDS are so varied and may not appear to be linked Imagine you’re a doctor and a young woman comes in cause they aren’t eating. What’s at the top of your differential? Anorexia, certainly Cancer, potentially Diabetes leading to gastroparesis? Unlikely, but let’s keep it on Ok so you try and treat anorexia, and it didn’t work (except, it did? The article wasn’t clear). Was it terrible that nobody took her at her word and worked this up? Absolutely. What else do you work up? You do a colonoscopy or upper endoscopy, you take samples of your intestine (which looked fine under the microscope most likely), you do some ct scans, and you do a gastric emptying study to make sure food is moving through intestines appropriately. I don’t really know where I’m going with this, other than to say you’re right that we should be better, and not cause suffering. But hindsight is 20/20
- Buttons840 5y ago
  There is always the possibility that we just won't know the cause of some medical symptoms no matter how much we test and investigate. My question is, how often will we "just not know"? So the doctors do some common tests and still don't know what's going on. From there, what are the odds that further tests will reach a helpful diagnosis, and what are the odds we will just never find anything helpful no matter how much we test and check?
  - 5y ago

DoreenMichele 5y ago

Oh, good lord, they tortured her and assumed she was just stubbornly "behaving badly" because "crazy." I'm appalled but a lot of the elements of her story are all too familiar. "You are just crazy" is a common accusation for anyone doctors can't readily diagnose and it's a horrible, horrible experience.

unanswered 5y ago
Every person involved should be criminally charged for kidnapping and torture. But they never will be, because they're just "doing their jobs" and "part of the system", and the main purpose and function of "the system" is to isolate its cogs from responsibility.
LorenPechtel 5y ago
Yup, this is par for the course. The docs are going to think psych over zebra. That goes on until you get lucky and find a doc who actually listens and understands--and I suspect for many patients that day never comes. Especially if you don't fit one of the already-diagnosed rare problems.
jmole 5y ago
I felt this in my bones. I’ll tell a doctor that almost anything I eat makes me feel bad, and when I don’t eat anything at all (which of course is not sustainable), I have amazing amounts of energy and can actually think clearly. Then I get the look. I can see the thought process in their head: ...must be an eating disorder... Immediately followed by, “has your weight changed recently?”
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Yeah, I have a genetic disorder that impacts gut function. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my mid thirties. I was a bag of bones as a child because of it and teased because of that. I have belly bloat as a side effect and have long had to deal with the negative attitudes about weight in the US. Etc. Ad nauseam.

tibbydudeza 5y ago

I wonder what her gut now does that it no longer receives any sort of stimuli in the form of digestion - hunger is partly driven by how empty your stomach and gut is ???.