7 ms·

This reminds me of my first job as a developer, age 21. I haven’t shared it before, so here goes... There was a ‘crunch’ coming up at work (i.e. IMHO, bad plan

This reminds me of my first job as a developer, age 21. I haven’t shared it before, so here goes... There was a ‘crunch’ coming up at work (i.e. IMHO, bad planning) and so the boss offered everyone a bonus if they performed well. However, the older employees warned me that the criteria for such bonuses were often ill-defined. I therefore pushed for clear achievable objectives. These pre-agreed objectives were promised, but never provided. Anyway, we all work hard, some more than others, but we met all the deadlines. Then comes bonus time, and they propose that I be given 30% of the maximum bonus. I explained that I felt this was entirely unreasonable, as I met all my deadlines. No other objectives were set, and therefore I felt I deserved the full bonus. They didn’t agree, and we went three rounds of meetings with more and more people in the meeting. Each time they tried to convince me what I was asking for was unreasonable. At this point I should add that I had seen this boss (CEO, small company) be what I would now call abusive. Verbally abusive to junior staff members, and insulting members of staff behind their backs. So my loyalty was, well, absent. So on the third round of weirdly manipulative meetings, we come to an impasse. So I explained that I still stand by my request, and I pulled out my letter of resignation. At which point there is a long silence. My boss puts his head in his, and the other two people in the meeting (another boss, and my coworker) looked surprised, to put it mildly. After collecting his thoughts, my boss asks: what is to stop me threatening to resign every time I don’t get my way? To which I calmly explain that he didn’t have to pay (Ie. I could just quit). After a bit more stunned silence, the boss relents, and agrees to give me the full bonus. I wait until the bonus is in my account then I hand in my notice anyway. Abusive bosses don’t get loyalty. The best part is, the coworker in the meeting also didn’t get the full bonus, despite working much harder than me. He’d only asked her into the meeting to try to guilt/manipulate me. So not only did the boss have to give me the full bonus, he had to do the same for her too. After that I went freelance. And 15 years later I can say it was the best decision ever.

edoceo 6y ago
Well done!
ben0x539 6y ago
> my boss asks: what is to stop me threatening to resign every time I don’t get my way? Nothing. That's how negotiating an employment relationship works. Holy shit.
- forgingahead 6y ago
  It's not. That is an independent contractor relationship. Employment means you play ball for the stability of the paycheck. If you want to throw a tantrum every time you feel slighted, you shouldn't commit to a full-time permanent job. Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider. They don't always have to share that with you. It's a nice idealistic view to think otherwise, and I truly hope you always find work in places like that. But this is not the lived reality for the majority of people, and it's actually not a bad thing.
  - anticristi 6y ago
    I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. But. Do. Not. Ever. Touch. My. Compensation! Being promised 100% but arbitrarily receiving 30% would be a no-go for me.
    - duckfang 6y ago
      > I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. That's a really hot take. That shows that the company is very fickle and very bad about planning. And frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear if they badly planned a business meeting on my vacation and then expect me to attend. Now, given my position, I specialize in "accidents" or the recovery of. I get paid well for that. And I can decide when and what my schedule looks like. Outside of that and the appropriate pay for that skill, I expect my hours to be stable and consistent. In exchange, I will deliver consistently and stably and get money for that. Tl;dr. Touching my hours (aside real unplanned disasters) IS touching my compensation, and you will not do this without appropriate offsets.
m463 6y ago
> After that I went freelance. And 15 years later I can say it was the best decision ever. Every time I've left a job, I've been uncertain and conflicted. Every. Time. Then, a week or two into the new job... Every. Time. ...I thought, "Wow! I should have done this sooner!"
- um_ya 6y ago
  Employees forget that they sell their labor. Sell your labor to the highest bidder.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    Why? My job is extremely easy with a great team and manager. I could get more, but I'd have to work in a high stress environment, and life is too short for that shit.
    - thih9 6y ago
      I think the grandparent was implying all other things being equal. If the highest bidder requires that you work in significally different and more difficult conditions, then it's not really comparable.
    - PKop 6y ago
      >My job is extremely easy with a great team and manager Value comes in many forms. OP message shouldn't imply that money alone is the only variable in the equation of "am I compensated fairly".
  - pinkybanana 6y ago
    The problem is evaluating the size of the bid. Salary is only one part of the equation and people rarely get wealthy on salary alone. There are multitude factors when evaluating the "bid" of the company and to actually understand what is valuable and what is not is the difficult part.
  - whatever_dude 6y ago
    Counterpoint: they sell ~8 hours of their day. Selling that to the highest bidder ignores that there's different environments that might be better or worse for everyone's general sense of fulfilment. IMO, chasing highest pay only is a recipe for an unhappy life that only pays off on the short term. No one should sell themselves short, but choosing, say, a 100% worse environment or a dead-end technology stack for a 5% higher pay (or whatever) is not wise.
dboreham 6y ago
Many psychopath in business settings.
Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
After you pulling a resignation notice as an argument, an experienced boss would instantly know you would not be an asset he could rely on even mid-term, so his best option from a business perspective would be giving you no bonus at all (or the original one), and immediately starting to look for a replacement (and probably firing you).
- teachingassist 6y ago
  This is an employer-employee power relationship. In general the employer has the power, but it cuts both ways, to some extent. Pulling a resignation notice shows that relationship to have broken down, probably irrevocably, I agree. But, the employer initially broke the relationship, by not keeping their promise regarding the bonus. The employer (perhaps here the boss's boss) knows they have treated the employee unfairly to an extent that could become legal, which would have an associated cost, and also could impact upon the other employees' motivation (and how employees evaluate the promise of future bonuses). If the employee is essential and their replacement cost is high, then there's an significant additional cost to firing them fast. The employer might have to weigh up the costs, and could reason that it's cheaper or otherwise better for the business to pay the bonus.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    > But, the employer initially broke the relationship, by not keeping their promise regarding the bonus. Or maybe the employee misunderstood the conditions of receiving the bonus. We can't really judge the situation after hearing just one side.
    - PKop 6y ago
      I think we can judge that since he got away with it, the boss felt that losing him was worse than conceding to his demands.
    - ectopod 6y ago
      > However, the older employees warned me that the criteria for such bonuses were often ill-defined. I therefore pushed for clear achievable objectives. These pre-agreed objectives were promised, but never provided. He asked for clear conditions and management agreed to provide them, but never did. They were playing him. The comments from the older employees suggest this wasn't the first time they used this tactic.
angarg12 6y ago
Not sure if intentional, but this is exactly the opposite of the message of the article.
pdimitar 6y ago
> what is to stop me threatening to resign every time I don’t get my way? To which I calmly explain that he didn’t have to pay (Ie. I could just quit). This might be my English failing me but I can't understand your answer; it doesn't seem like it's actually addressing the question that was asked to you. Could you elaborate a little further? I was met with that question before and would like to learn how to handle it well.
- rhines 6y ago
  It's just pointing out "yeah, if you're worried that I'll keep doing this, then feel free to just let me resign - but if you want me to stay, you'll have to live with the risk that I'll do this again". It's not assuaging the manager's fears at all, because there's really no way to do that.
  - pdimitar 6y ago
    I like that a lot. Thank you. (a) be honest and (b) remind them that you got them by the balls if crap hits the fan.

edoceo 6y ago

Well done!

ben0x539 6y ago

> my boss asks: what is to stop me threatening to resign every time I don’t get my way? Nothing. That's how negotiating an employment relationship works. Holy shit.

forgingahead 6y ago
It's not. That is an independent contractor relationship. Employment means you play ball for the stability of the paycheck. If you want to throw a tantrum every time you feel slighted, you shouldn't commit to a full-time permanent job. Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider. They don't always have to share that with you. It's a nice idealistic view to think otherwise, and I truly hope you always find work in places like that. But this is not the lived reality for the majority of people, and it's actually not a bad thing.
- anticristi 6y ago
  I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. But. Do. Not. Ever. Touch. My. Compensation! Being promised 100% but arbitrarily receiving 30% would be a no-go for me.
  - duckfang 6y ago
    > I allow my boss to be very demanding. Want me to take an important customer call during holidays? Sure, I can convince my wife to allow that. Want me to work a week in a different timezone? Let me check first, but should be doable. That's a really hot take. That shows that the company is very fickle and very bad about planning. And frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear if they badly planned a business meeting on my vacation and then expect me to attend. Now, given my position, I specialize in "accidents" or the recovery of. I get paid well for that. And I can decide when and what my schedule looks like. Outside of that and the appropriate pay for that skill, I expect my hours to be stable and consistent. In exchange, I will deliver consistently and stably and get money for that. Tl;dr. Touching my hours (aside real unplanned disasters) IS touching my compensation, and you will not do this without appropriate offsets.

m463 6y ago

> After that I went freelance. And 15 years later I can say it was the best decision ever. Every time I've left a job, I've been uncertain and conflicted. Every. Time. Then, a week or two into the new job... Every. Time. ...I thought, "Wow! I should have done this sooner!"

um_ya 6y ago
Employees forget that they sell their labor. Sell your labor to the highest bidder.
- iso1631 6y ago
  Why? My job is extremely easy with a great team and manager. I could get more, but I'd have to work in a high stress environment, and life is too short for that shit.
  - thih9 6y ago
    I think the grandparent was implying all other things being equal. If the highest bidder requires that you work in significally different and more difficult conditions, then it's not really comparable.
  - PKop 6y ago
    >My job is extremely easy with a great team and manager Value comes in many forms. OP message shouldn't imply that money alone is the only variable in the equation of "am I compensated fairly".
- pinkybanana 6y ago
  The problem is evaluating the size of the bid. Salary is only one part of the equation and people rarely get wealthy on salary alone. There are multitude factors when evaluating the "bid" of the company and to actually understand what is valuable and what is not is the difficult part.
- whatever_dude 6y ago
  Counterpoint: they sell ~8 hours of their day. Selling that to the highest bidder ignores that there's different environments that might be better or worse for everyone's general sense of fulfilment. IMO, chasing highest pay only is a recipe for an unhappy life that only pays off on the short term. No one should sell themselves short, but choosing, say, a 100% worse environment or a dead-end technology stack for a 5% higher pay (or whatever) is not wise.

dboreham 6y ago

Many psychopath in business settings.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

After you pulling a resignation notice as an argument, an experienced boss would instantly know you would not be an asset he could rely on even mid-term, so his best option from a business perspective would be giving you no bonus at all (or the original one), and immediately starting to look for a replacement (and probably firing you).

teachingassist 6y ago
This is an employer-employee power relationship. In general the employer has the power, but it cuts both ways, to some extent. Pulling a resignation notice shows that relationship to have broken down, probably irrevocably, I agree. But, the employer initially broke the relationship, by not keeping their promise regarding the bonus. The employer (perhaps here the boss's boss) knows they have treated the employee unfairly to an extent that could become legal, which would have an associated cost, and also could impact upon the other employees' motivation (and how employees evaluate the promise of future bonuses). If the employee is essential and their replacement cost is high, then there's an significant additional cost to firing them fast. The employer might have to weigh up the costs, and could reason that it's cheaper or otherwise better for the business to pay the bonus.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  > But, the employer initially broke the relationship, by not keeping their promise regarding the bonus. Or maybe the employee misunderstood the conditions of receiving the bonus. We can't really judge the situation after hearing just one side.
  - PKop 6y ago
    I think we can judge that since he got away with it, the boss felt that losing him was worse than conceding to his demands.
  - ectopod 6y ago
    > However, the older employees warned me that the criteria for such bonuses were often ill-defined. I therefore pushed for clear achievable objectives. These pre-agreed objectives were promised, but never provided. He asked for clear conditions and management agreed to provide them, but never did. They were playing him. The comments from the older employees suggest this wasn't the first time they used this tactic.

angarg12 6y ago

Not sure if intentional, but this is exactly the opposite of the message of the article.

pdimitar 6y ago

> what is to stop me threatening to resign every time I don’t get my way? To which I calmly explain that he didn’t have to pay (Ie. I could just quit). This might be my English failing me but I can't understand your answer; it doesn't seem like it's actually addressing the question that was asked to you. Could you elaborate a little further? I was met with that question before and would like to learn how to handle it well.

rhines 6y ago
It's just pointing out "yeah, if you're worried that I'll keep doing this, then feel free to just let me resign - but if you want me to stay, you'll have to live with the risk that I'll do this again". It's not assuaging the manager's fears at all, because there's really no way to do that.
- pdimitar 6y ago
  I like that a lot. Thank you. (a) be honest and (b) remind them that you got them by the balls if crap hits the fan.