19 ms·

Ten apps is all I need

239 points by sant0sk1 15y ago

mey 15y ago
Andorid's biggest failing to me is the lack of a coherent killer e-mail, calendar and integrated IM experience. Out of the box you have a carrier crippled experience or the google locked in experience. Even Win7 get's that right. Conversely you will pry my Incredible 2 from my cold dead hands.
m0nastic 15y ago
I feel like he's missing the point of an ecosystem. It's fine that he only uses a few apps on his phone, and that most other people probably do the same. The problem is that those "few apps" that most other people use aren't the same "few apps" that he uses.
- dhh 15y ago
  I've heard that mentioned before, but that's not what I'm seeing. I don't use 10 random apps from the App Store. I use the 10 default apps that come with the phone. Except for Twitter, I consider the 3rd party apps to be completely expendable without materially affecting my enjoyment of the phone. From other "just a few apps on a daily basis" users I've seen, they tend to use the default apps as well. It's not a random cross section of the 200K apps in the App Store.
  - Jasber 15y ago
    I think m0nastic is right. I use some of the apps you mention, but also use Rdio and RunKeeper on a daily basis. Those both materially affect the enjoyment of my phone. You certainly have a point, most apps are downloaded then never used. But I think everyone's "few apps" are different with lots of overlap in the apps you mention.
  - bradleyland 15y ago
    No argument on the app usage side of things. I think if you drew a giant venn diagram of actual app usage on iOS, it'd look like a giant circle with fuzzy edges, but I think that's missing the point. "The platform" isn't synonymous with apps. The platform is becoming more than what runs on your phone; quite the opposite. Both Google and Apple have built the type of platforms being referred to when casting doubt on the future of MeeGo. The central feature of those platforms, up until about six months ago, was their capability to run applications. This is shifting quickly to the ability to store data in a way that is transparent to the user. Google can, right now, give you seamless, transparent access to documents on a phone, tablet, or desktop computer with no thought or action from the user outside of logging in and browsing to the location of the document. There is no syncing. The same is true for email, calendar, and contacts. When iCloud ships this fall, Apple will be in the same position. What would it take for Nokia to bring MeeGo to that point? This is "the platform" that I can't see Nokia building, and I believe it's going to set the bar for every major player in the space in the coming years.
  - achompas 15y ago
    Except for Twitter... This is a variation of m0nitaly's point: I would say "except for Instapaper, Reeder, and Twitter..." and Jasber would say "except for Rdio and RunKeeper..." Even if apps 1-10 are native, I'm hanging onto my iPhone for numbers 11 and 12. The native iOS experience is great, but those two or three non-native apps make it sublime.
    - esrauch 15y ago
      I still think that is really only true of the "geek" crowd. I am pretty sure none of my real life friends that weren't computer science majors have even heard of Instapaper or Reeder or Rdio or RunKeeper. The majority of the "number 11" apps that I use are mainly because either they don't have a workable mobile site (HN) or the mobile website doesn't quite work well enough (reddit, imdb, possibly facebook) but the latter category should be fixed just from phones getting slightly better and certain mobile oriented technologies coming out (like HTML5 offline support). On a side note (not related to current enjoyment of phones) I really think it's not too long until the only things that are necessarily apps use lower hardware features (GPS, compass, camera, Shazam, game graphics), with even some of those possibly moving into the browser (disclosing location to sites already exists on desktop, Google just launched voice search on their desktop search). I also think its a bit disingenuous to put the Twitter app (not an alternate third party Twitter app) in the same category as the others. Right now, a new mobile device would probably have a Twitter app and maybe even a Facebook app as a "native" app. When I got my phone Twitter and Facebook was already installed on it, equally presented alongside all the "native" apps like Googles, Maps, Music, Navigation, etc.
      - wvenable 15y ago
        My boss makes very heavy use of the Starbucks app. My daughter has a billion apps that she uses daily and they aren't all games.
      - achompas 15y ago
        I still think that is really only true of the "geek" crowd. I am pretty sure none of my real life friends that weren't computer science majors have even heard of Instapaper or Reeder or Rdio or RunKeeper. I disagree. I have friends who love Tiny Wings, Angry Birds, Pandora, the DC Next Bus app, SimpleNote, NPR and Fruit Ninja. Most of these are iOS-only, and those that are not have abysmal Android versions. As for Twitter being native: are we talking about the Twitter for iOS app? Because the iOS app is indispensable relative to other options.
  - cwe 15y ago
    "except for twitter" which, of course, is becoming a built in capability soon. Even more to your point.
  - cageface 15y ago
    Maybe the real value of the app store (for Apple) is that Apple lets third parties take the risk of trying out new ideas and then they co-opt whatever really takes off into the next rev of iOS?
- dkarl 15y ago
  Exactly. My "few apps" include Kindle, iPeng, Last.fm, Netflix, Yelp, and lately, a Spanish-English dictionary. Also, my "few apps" has changed over time. Two years ago, the only one of those apps I was using a lot was iPeng, and some of the apps I used on a near-daily basis back then have been relegated to my "Attic" folder.
- ebiester 15y ago
  Yes, but how many of those native apps can be replaced with web apps that already exist? Is 2,000 enough for 80% of people? A few great games, some time wasters, and the basic smartphone functionality? There are always going to be a few developers who take a chance on a new platform, especially if it's developer friendly. And if the 2,000 come and are well received, the rest will follow.
  - megablast 15y ago
    Most people do not see Android, Apple and Nokia devices as being any different. They all have big screens, cameras, web, email, etc... They don't understand specs, so they judge on what they know. They do know apps, so this is one way in which they will judge the use of a phone. Now, nobody will use 300,000 apps, but everyone knows 300,000 is better than 100,000, or 2,000.
    - georgemcbay 15y ago
      I completely disagree. Once a platform hits a critical mass of app support (well below 300k, still well below 100k and even below 2k though that's in the right neighborhood), bigger numbers are a net negative, IMO. A hundred thousand more apps is just a ton more garbage you have to wade through to find the very few good ones.
- mailarchis 15y ago
  I think the point above is there was no need for Nokia to abandon meego as their mobile platform just because it is too late to arrive at the party and doesn't have enough developers building apps for it. As long as it got the core experience right.
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    Except Nokia didn't abandon Meego. They're strategy is pretty straightforward and sound. 1) Focus on WP7 for the short/medium term. They'll be the premiere phone on the OS and if it takes off, they'll rake in the cash. 2) In the meanwhile MS gives them a boatload of money. 3) Develop Meego in the background and push it later down the line. The problem, as noted in the leaked stories, is that they didn't have a pipeline of Meego phones that would be ready to go. And while the phone design looks great, the OS looks a bit stale still. So get the OS in good shape, while not hemorraging too much cash.
    - eonwe 15y ago
      I am having problems believing the 3rd point as Nokia is just laying of a lot of Meego-developers. As for current Maemo/Meego-experience, I think not much can actually be said before the phones appear at stores this fall.
      - brmorris 15y ago
        nokia are not laying off any meego developers.
        stonemetal 15y ago
        http://www.mwkn.net/2011/18/front.html http://www.mwkn.net/2011/18/front.html 4000 mostly from meego and symbian. So yes they actually are laying off at least some meego devs.
- dave1010uk 15y ago
  I have a N900, which runs Maemo 5 (Fremantle); the N9 runs Maemo 6 (Harmattan)-MeeGo. They both share many system packages and both advertise Qt as thair main development platform. The N900 was not as heavily marketed as the N9 is but there's still thousands of apps for it. I've got over 150 apps installed but the only apps I use daily are the web browser, phone, SMS, email and the terminal (I wouldn't count commandline tools like git, vi, python, wget, ssh "apps"). My point is that even if the N9 has 1% of the number of apps available as iOS then there's still probably loads of apps to cover many people's "few app" choices.
- loschorts 15y ago
  I agree -- and not just an ecosystem, but competition. Apple's native apps have to be up to snuff because of pressure from the store. Those few apps that rise to the top did so in part from the mechanism of competition.
- notatoad 15y ago
  >The problem is that those "few apps" that most other people use aren't the same "few apps" that he uses. are they really? having one or two obscure apps might be nice, but there are very, very few people for whom app availability is actually a necessity.
- thirdsun 15y ago
  Exactly. I guess most people would agree that there are only a handful of apps they really care about and use. As much as I like the efforts made on Meego, Windows mobile 7 and even WebOS (android not so much), as long as there is no alternative to reeder, instacast or kinetic, I'm not likely to switch anything. Of course there are feed readers, podcast management and sports tracking apps on other platforms but the big advantage of iOS is that a lot of developers are really commited to their projects resulting in apps that stand out.
mailarchis 15y ago
It is interesting. I guess yesterday an article which compared the % of users using addons on firefox vs those on chrome. Firefox had the higher number. But its probably more of an indicator that chrome is reaching out to mainstream user base. I don't think that the mobile platform domination will be decided by how many apps the platform has in the app store. Will it be dominated by the best platform that nails the core use cases best like iPhone as mentioned in above article ? Well maybe, it will. But then it just might happen that the one with highest distribution channels will win the race.
- dhh 15y ago
  The whole point of this is that there need be no race. If all you need to compete is to do the core set of 10 apps better than the other guy, it's completely doable. If you need a 200K app ecosystem, it's not. OS X is a great example of this as well. I switched because it did the basics better than Windows back in the early 2000s. Back when it had virtually no apps and Windows had all of them.
  - cageface 15y ago
    Laptops are different for me because they're big enough and powerful enough to do non-trivial work. I use my phone for checking email and bus-stop web surfing but I have a Macbook instead of something running Ubuntu because I need Photoshop and Ableton Live.
kenjackson 15y ago
This is the exact argument I make to others about why the app long tail is less important than you think. In fact I made the argument here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2664559 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2664559 You nail the basics as listed above, and have a basic app ecosystem and you're fine. Much like how the web neutralized the desktop OS advantage -- we'll see it happen even faster in mobile.
- alex_c 15y ago
  That is basically what Apple did with the iPhone. There were lots of apps for the other mobile platforms at the time, but the iPhone was simply in a different class. The problem is that today, you have to come up with something that much better than the iPhone. If a Nokia phone and an iPhone are of comparable quality (which I think has yet to happen), but the iPhone also offers you access to a huge variety of apps, then why would you get the Nokia? It needs to be significantly better in some way.
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    I needs to be significantly better to gain mind share, not to market share.
smackfu 15y ago
He doesn't use his phones for games at all. I think that is a fairly common use among those who buy apps.
pclark 15y ago
The "few apps" he needs vary wildly person to person. Here are mine: TweetBot, WakeMate, SimpleNote, Spotify, Meebo. Additionally gaming is a primary category for platform growth, if you do not have a vast amount of good games you are stuffed.
hernan7 15y ago
Maybe there is a niche for a not-so-smart phone: like a dumb phone, but with a usable web browser. I could live with a phone like that.
- revorad 15y ago
  I totally agree. A good cheap tablet (weblet?) like that would also be very useful to me.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    That was the N800, a few years ago.
    - revorad 15y ago
      That's quite small (4 inches?). My ideal size would be that of the Kindle, like the HTC Flyer, but not as stupidly expensive.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  The problem is that this phone would likely be on the same data plan as smart phones -- especially as HTML5 comes of age. So while the phone might be marginally cheaper (a 3GS is what, $49?), it'll still cost you the same amount per month. That makes it a non-starter. That's largely what happened with the Kin. Of course the great untold story, is that the Kin is selling really well now -- as a feature phone.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  Microsoft tried that with the Kin. The problem (at least one of the problems) was that it still cost as much as a real smartphone. Particularly, the monthly plans were still the same, which I think makes potential buyers pause and say something like: "If I'm going to be paying this much money per month, wouldn't it make sense to at least have the ability to use apps, even if I don't need them now".
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
saturdaysaint 15y ago
If "all you need is 10 apps", then the platform is relatively unimportant, and it doesn't matter if you're just distributing someone else's software. Personally, I'd add a few apps to his "must have" list - Kindle, Netflix, Wunderlist, Rdio, Facebook, iTalk (Dropbox-enabled voice recorder), Dropbox, Instacast (high quality podcast app), Downloads, The Economist, VNC software, Audible, ComicZeal... Also, I expect a robust tablet ecosystem, strong syncing/backup capabilities and good accessories. The N9 isn't looking too attractive to me.
- sant0sk1 15y ago
  +1 on Dropbox, Instacast, and Netflix. Allow me to add a few of my daily use apps: Instapaper, Reeder, iOctocat, TrackerBot, and Evernote.
- esrauch 15y ago
  I've found the Facebook Android app to be lacking compared to their mobile site, maybe the iPhone app is better. As for Kindle, Netflix, VNC, and ComicZeal I just could not fathom actually using a 3 inch screen for visual media. I've used the Netflix app once or twice when I didn't have easy access to a laptop, but those situations are exceedingly rare and the experience was very lackluster. They also completely murdered my battery so I pretty much had to have my phone plugged in if I planned on having any power to use my phone in a few hours, so the application of it would be seriously limited. It feels like you are confounding iPhone and iOS in general (you specifically mentioned tablet ecosystem). The N9 is a phone and I cannot fathom why you would care that the OS that your phone runs on has a robust tablet ecosystem. I also feel like you have must have a very unusual lifestyle to consider Kindle and Netflix apps on your phone at all imperative; do you have an unusual commute or something?
  - bad_user 15y ago
    Meh, it got better -- what I like about my Android is that it can sync Facebook contacts with my contacts list, giving me extra emails (or phone numbers, but maybe that was an illusion) -- and most importantly, I have my friends avatars in my contacts, without me bothering to go out of my way to take their pictures. So the Android/Facebook integration is useful for me. I do tend to agree with DHH -- besides the browser, GMail and Maps, I only use 3 apps I got from the Marketplace, plus one that I built myself. Other than that I don't bother, as my laptop is much better for everything else and when going out I only feel the need to stay connected, otherwise I would rather drink beer or play with my kid, rather than playing stupid games that are no match for the games I used to play in the 90-ties, or watch movies on a shitty screen. It is useful for commuting to work though, but that doesn't help me as I'm 5 minutes away from my work-place and I also have the freedom to work from home when I feel like doing it. DHH said it better, but I had the same impression - people are overestimating the importance of an App Store. It's useful to be sure, but the phone can initially sell without it.
dasil003 15y ago
I'm not sure I agree that the app ecosystem doesn't matter, but one thing is for sure, there are way too many app stores being launched and most of them suck. Certainly it would make sense to focus on the core user experience first instead of some half-baked attempt to confront to out do Apple's whole platform.
Cherian_Abraham 15y ago
N9 is fucked, not just because of the lack of third party devs developing for the MeeGo platform. As per Engadget, Nokia plans to have N9 on sale on Sept 23, right after the iPhone5 launch and several Android, WebOS and Mango phones that will be released between now and then. Sounds like bringing Knife to a Gunfight? The processor underneath the N9 is already dated and they think releasing end of third quarter was a sound idea? WTF?
- KeyBoardG 15y ago
  Not to mention the Meego team has a limited time left at Nokia. From what I've read Meego will run Android apps via the Dalvic JVM. If that were the case I would rather run the leaner Meego than Android.
hnsmurf 15y ago
The problem is everyone has a different 10 apps they "need" and even if you figure only 1% of apps fall into that category for someone, there's still a lot of value in a platform of 200k apps.
robenkleene 15y ago
It is worth pointing out that this is 37 Signals. Which means, just by dogfood-ing, they get rid of many of the major 3rd party app categories. Productivity software make up a lot of the most useful 3rd party apps, and 37 Signals makes web productivity software that cover the same territory. It doesn't mean their point isn't still interesting, it's just good to remember context.
antidaily 15y ago
To be sure, most people just want facebook, pandora and most especially angry birds. But can I get every episode of Top Chef or the latest Golf Digest on the N9 (or even Android)? I think access to content within iTunes is more compelling than the 200k apps. And it seems to be what Apple is betting on.
hnsmurf 15y ago
Also the notion of using only a few apps doesn't apply to games, which is one of the killer features of smart phones. They are largely meant to be disposable, and you assume you'll be playing new ones periodically. I might keep 7 or 8 utility apps that I frequently use, but I've got a constantly rotating selection of about 1 or 2 games I'll play, and I'm not even much of a gamer.
- MaxGabriel 15y ago
  John Gruber ran a series of posts about this for awhile, about how iOS had significantly better 3rd party game selection, and especially from larger brands
ChrisLTD 15y ago
DHH is probably right that most people only use a fraction of apps, and that should mean any phone could succeed versus the iPhone or Android phones. However, I doubt people are rational enough to realize this when they go out to buy their new smartphone. Even though I only use ~10 apps on my iPhone and iPad, I'd be wary of buying into another platform that didn't offer the same breadth of choice.
icebraining 15y ago
Nevertheless, the support for Alien Dalvik[1] might help. [1]: http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n9-android-app-support-promised-with-alien-dalvik-22160809/ http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n9-android-app-support-promis...
scrrr 15y ago
I suspect that in a few years there'll only be two (native) apps: Making phonecalls + webbrowser. (yes the webbrowser will also play mp3s and talk to the camera to take pictures)
- sheriff 15y ago
  Why couldn't the web browser also make phone calls?
atacrawl 15y ago
The platform as a whole matters a lot less than the exclusivity of its best apps.
thestoicjester 15y ago
This reminds me very much of Navin R. Johnson. Not only just in phrasing, but also the attitude that he'll be "just fine" with his few apps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbI5zcB8Ac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbI5zcB8Ac
briggsbio 15y ago
I'm taking a different read of this article, I guess. I view this not as a "who cares what phone I use, since I rarely use the 3rd party apps." I take this, and some other commenters do as well who have significant usage of some 3rd party apps (Netflix, Kindle, Instapaper, et al), as a challenge to build better apps that provide more functionality. Every time I look down at that 4" screen and think about all the things I can do with it, I still look at it and think, "Good lord, there is SO MUCH MORE we haven't even seen yet!" And it makes me want a whiteboard so I can start mapping out ideas. There is still a huge amount of opportunity to create incredible apps. Social Media apps have been done every which way from Sunday, content apps as well, To-Do lists are certainly overdone, and basic note apps as well (though there are some unique innovations that could be done on note apps IMO). But look at those categories, compared to all the incredible things these devices can do? There are still big wins to be made in mobile app development, both native and browser-based.
jdietrich 15y ago
The iPhone had sold millions of units before the app store launched. A significant proportion of iPhone and iPad users have downloaded less than a handful of apps. I'm very much of the opinion that apps were more effective as a viral marketing strategy than as a truly attractive feature. People talk about apps, people show their friends, but most of the non-geeks I know don't actually use anything but the built in apps, a Twitter or Facebook app and Angry Birds. A lot of people in the comments are generalising from their own experience and that of their peers, which is just a classic geek mistake. I think Apple have been clever in perpetrating the myth that the App Store gives them an unassailable "ecosystem", but I think what really sold the iPhone was the fact that it's core features were so damned useable. Their rivals have been falling over each other to attract developers, when they should probably have been working on making the core features work better. Look at the stats on mobile data usage - until the iPhone came along, nobody really bothered to use their smartphone's browser because the experience was so unpleasant. At one point 99% of all mobile data was being used by Mobile Safari. Android is catching up, but iPhone users still spend a disproportionate amount of time using their phone's browser. That has nothing to do with an "ecosystem".
- cheez 15y ago
  Not so with Android. My wife annoys the hell out of me showing all the crap she can do with her homescreen.
  - Roritharr 15y ago
    I for one would be glad if my wife would be interested in android enough to do anything but complain that it's sometimes slow, or has bugs.
    - idonthack 15y ago
      maybe you should have thought of that when you were choosing a wife.
    - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
      Maybe she'd show more interest if she didn't find it slow and buggy?
KeyBoardG 15y ago
I agree mostly with these 10 apps. Its why I hung onto my BlackBerry for so long. My jump to WP7 was mostly for the screen resolution and browser.
georgieporgie 15y ago
I liked my Palm IIIx (1999) better than my Android. That's not to say it was better, just that its simple, snappy, tightly integrated set of base apps helped me be more productive. My Android, which comes with nothing very useful, makes me unproductive. PDAs were great time savers whereas 'smart' phones are great ways to get ads in front of people. :-)
- technomancy 15y ago
  What amazes me is that from what I can tell no modern mobile platform allows you to sync contact info as seamlessly as IRDA did in '99. I had a Palm V, but I could point the thing at my friends' Nokias and get their numbers in seconds. The closest thing I've seen is Bump, which is cool but nowhere near as immediate. Plus it's a 3rd-party install.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    For what it's worth, in Japan it's 100% standard to exchange virtual contact info via IR. Every time I witnessed a meeting of new acquaintances, people would automatically begin to form circles and exchange contact info. It's so cheap and effective, it really does make you wonder why it's so rare on American phones. The only electronic contact exchange I've ever witnessed in the US was between Googlers using 2D barcodes. I've never seen anyone use IR or Bluetooth.
tptacek 15y ago
I used to think I was this way about the iPhone too, but if I look at what apps I use constantly, it's more than 2: PCalc, Rdio, Remote, Instagram, RTM, Screens.
- spicyj 15y ago
  Curious – what do you use Screens for?
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Controlling the Mac Mini under my TV.
    - spicyj 15y ago
      I see, for the keyboard mostly? I always thought using a mouse over VNC on an iPhone seemed awkward.
      - tptacek 15y ago
        It mostly drives Rdio.
AndrewDucker 15y ago
I don't _need_ apps. But why would I switch from a phone that has apps for Spotify, real time updates for local buses, Facebook and Twitter to one that doesn't?
- dave1010uk 15y ago
  I know it's not really the point but the N9 has a Facebook / Twitter client built in. There's a few Spotify clients already for Maemo (what the N9 is based on) so I expect there to be at least one before the N9 launches.
nasmorn 15y ago
I think the compass is great. If you get out into the world sometimes and arent a gazzillionaire you can't use Google Maps even if you happen to have a signal. On my trip to Argentina for example a GB of roaming data was 15000 USD. In words fifteen thousand dollars. And if you didn't download an offline map back home, GPS is not going to help you much.
buro9 15y ago
The problem is, which 10 varies from person to person.
kleiba 15y ago
I don't have a Smartphone, but I can relate to the basic notion very much. I mainly do desktop computing, and lots of it, but pretty much all I ever need are four "apps": the shell, a browser, an email client, and Emacs. That's what I use 95% of the time. Then a PDF viewer, OpenOffice.org, and every now and then the Gimp or Inkscape. So basically, 10 apps is all I need, too. But at the same time, if I scroll through synaptics there are many, many packages that I have installed over the years. Most of them I probably used only once or twice, unless they're libraries. But for those couple of times, it was great having the "ecosystem" to get them with a simple click. So I suppose it's always a mixture: the 10 apps you use 95% of the time should rock. But the remaining 5% should be painless, too.
- dave1010uk 15y ago
  FYI, as the N9 is based on Debian, most of the programs you mentioned should run on it. I use OpenOffice.org and The Gimp occasionally on my phone if I really need to (the 3.5" screen is not ideal but it works).
  - kleiba 15y ago
    Cool! Is it possible to attach a screen, a mouse and a keyboard to a Smartphone? That should be fun...
    - dave1010uk 15y ago
      Phones that support USB host (or USB on the go) could have a keyboard / mouse. I've done that with my N900. I don't think the N9 supports USB host out of the box but I bet some enterprising hackers will get it working. The N9 also has TV out (but not HDMI). You could, alternatively, connect the keyboard / mouse via USB. Nokia's N8 has USB host and HDMI out but runs the Symbian platform. Here's a demo of the N8 connected to a TV & a keyboard / mouse: http://dailymobile.se/2010/10/07/nokia-n8-hdmi-bluetooth-keyboardmouse-win/ http://dailymobile.se/2010/10/07/nokia-n8-hdmi-bluetooth-key...
      - 15y ago
kkowalczyk 15y ago
One can wonder if a platform becomes successful because of a rich ecosystem of apps or if rich ecosystem of apps follows success of a platform, but the undeniable fact of life is: every successful computing platform also has a rich ecosystem of apps. Be it Windows, Mac OS, web, iphone, playstation or Commodore 64. So reality strongly hints that you cannot have successful computing platform without a rich ecosystem of apps. If you've read reviews of Android tablets, there was one thing that every reviewer brought up: there are no tablet-specific appsh. Applying Ockham's razor, is it because: a) reviewers are part of world-wide anti-Android tablet conspiracy that coordinates talking points in their reviews b) we have a freak statistical event of reviewers being in sync in their out-of-touchiness wrt. what is important for potential tablet buyers c) people actually do care about having lots of apps to choose from Do we really have tens of thousands gullible developers who write hundreds of thousands of apps that nobody wants or buys, or maybe, just maybe, developers are following the money and writing apps because people are actually buying and using them?
- windsurfer 15y ago
  Compare and contrast A and B. A has features X and Y. B only has feature X. B is missing Y. Reviewer complains.
  - kkowalczyk 15y ago
    I give reviewers a little bit more credit than that and believe they are capable of telling a difference between important and marginal.
    - smackfu 15y ago
      Reviewers have been pretty terrible forever. See: any review framework that enforces a Pros & Cons list at the end.
rtc 15y ago
The reason that 200,000 apps is huge is not because all 200,000 benefit a single user; rather it's because 200,000 apps enables millions of people to write this exact same post, but substitute Echofon and Bloomberg (his 2 daily use apps) with App X and App Y.
tsycho 15y ago
Reminds of that other saying about most users using only 10% of features in Microsoft Excel......it's just that every one uses a different 10% of features (or apps in this case) :)
tobylane 15y ago
Variety is also good. Just because you know you love these ten apps doesn't mean you want to be confined to them. I have 350 apps on my ipod, I only use five weekly, but if I had to stay entertained for a few days I'd play all 100+ games. I'd still prefer my Kindle.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
rogerbraun 15y ago
But it's the same for non-mobile platforms. I only use 10 applications on my computer, too, and I try to avoid platforms that don't have these. Of course, one might argue that everyone needs the same apps on a smartphone (telephony, messaging, notes...) but why not use a regular phone, then?
Steko 15y ago
Let's look at his 10 apps or more specifically what he didn't list. Would your phone/tablet experience be degraded without the following: RSS Skype iBooks/Kindle Netflix/Hulu Pandora/radio Video Calling all games Mine would be and there are many more that I use less but value highly. Barcode scanners, Fandango, White Noise, flight trackers, turn by turn, Word Lens, a whole suite of reference materials that work offline. A browser can replace some of them, somewhat. Chrome's promise is to replace nearly all of them completely but that's not here yet and is really just moving the goalposts. Today I may not need all of these apps but I love that I have them.
- smackfu 15y ago
  ...and the main problem with that list is that 3 or 4 of them are proprietary platforms. So if Netflix or Amazon doesn't decide to support your platform, tough luck. You will never have access to your movies or books.
papertowel 15y ago
I don't agree with the premise. If Apple had nailed the basics, why there are still many popular apps for camera, weather, clocks, photos and maps? I also take issue with the fact that just because someone uses a few apps 95% of the time, they don't need other apps. Some apps are really valuable only in some circumstances like when you want to know how to go to an obscure place.
petekp 15y ago
Mostly agree with David’s points. I have at least 30 apps on my iPhone. Of those, I use 5-6 on a regular basis, half of which were developed by Apple and came pre-installed. The endless variety of the app store is impressive, but there’s so much cruft in there it’s beginning to feel more like an app Walmart. A large fraction are either redundant or slapped together to make a quick buck. I’d trade the majority of my apps just to have more seamless interaction with those aspects of this device I find most useful; the camera app in particular. It’s perplexing that Apple has just now decided to allow us to use a volume button as a shutter. I’ll forgive that on the basis of the brilliant decision to add a camera shortcut on the lock screen — that is an example of the type of improvements that really make a difference in the everyday utility of these incredible pocket machines. Whoever masters the art of making it easy for a five-fingered hand to effortlessly soar through those fundamental functions it’s difficult to imagine being without (phone, messaging, browser and camera in particular) is who will ultimately earn my dollar. /raaant
- ja27 15y ago
  On my phone (Android) I regularly use Touchdown (Exchange email), GMail, Twitter, Facebook, Foursquare, Google Talk, PdaNet, Google Maps, GPS Status, c:geo (geocaching), WeatherBug, Pomodroido, Wireless Tether and somewhat regularly use Evernote, Dropbox, and NXT Remote (drives LEGO bots). On my iPod Touch besides the built-in apps I pretty regularly use Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, Stanza (e-reader), YouVersion Bible, Evernote, PomodoroLE, iTalk, Skype, NYTimes, ESPN ScoreCenter, Opera Mini, VLC, and two of my company's own apps. I regularly play a few games: the Angry Birds line, StarDunk, Trainyard, HarborMaster, LEGO Harry Potter, Dungeon Raid, Words With Friends and Carcassonne. Every couple of weeks I use Yelp, Urban Spoon, Geocaching, and Wolfram Alpha. My phone is a bit crippled due to slow speed and lack of space or else I'd use a more apps there. I pretty much grab every interesting iOS app that I see and give it a try.
jsz0 15y ago
As many people have said the challenge is everyone's 10 apps are a bit different and that's why you need a big software catalog. This is especially true of games. You can only play Angry Birds so many times. There are hundreds of other really great iOS games out there. The author says he can live without playing Civilization but when the price tag for the phone and service is basically the same that's a tough sell. We also cannot underestimate the simple joy of consumption people get from buying/sampling different apps. A device that lacks this experience is always going to feel limited even if you spend 95% of your time in the same 10 apps it does provide.
cpg 15y ago
What? It's a bit strident for the sake of it. "Fuck the platform" then ... "they nailed the basics" ... that's essentially the platform too, I say.
switch 15y ago
What monastic wrote: * I feel like he's missing the point of an ecosystem. It's fine that he only uses a few apps on his phone, and that most other people probably do the same. The problem is that those "few apps" that most other people use aren't the same "few apps" that he uses. * All the arguments against this are arguments made by people not willing to step out of their own perspective. 1) The particular apps that are critical vary per person. 2) The number of such critical apps vary per person. 3) The weight given to these apps when valuing the iPhone varies per person. Most importantly - in a system where iPhone is already as good or better (or if you have religion of openness, a little worse) than nearly every other phone - the apps become a huge advantage.
EdgarZambrana 15y ago
This is why Windows Phone is so much better than the competition. It integrates all of the most commonly used features in a smartphone into a simple, cohesive experience.
delackner 15y ago
I'm not sure what the name is for this, but this is the same incorrect reasoning that lead to the idea that the russians could compete against capitalism with a planned economy. Just make the ten tractors and chicken plucking machines that everyone needs! The only way the next really amazing app comes along that EVERYONE wants is for a seething ocean of developers churn through ideas fighting for users.
zem 15y ago
but everyone needs a different ten!

239 points by sant0sk1 15y ago

mey 15y ago

Andorid's biggest failing to me is the lack of a coherent killer e-mail, calendar and integrated IM experience. Out of the box you have a carrier crippled experience or the google locked in experience. Even Win7 get's that right. Conversely you will pry my Incredible 2 from my cold dead hands.

m0nastic 15y ago

I feel like he's missing the point of an ecosystem. It's fine that he only uses a few apps on his phone, and that most other people probably do the same. The problem is that those "few apps" that most other people use aren't the same "few apps" that he uses.

dhh 15y ago
I've heard that mentioned before, but that's not what I'm seeing. I don't use 10 random apps from the App Store. I use the 10 default apps that come with the phone. Except for Twitter, I consider the 3rd party apps to be completely expendable without materially affecting my enjoyment of the phone. From other "just a few apps on a daily basis" users I've seen, they tend to use the default apps as well. It's not a random cross section of the 200K apps in the App Store.
- Jasber 15y ago
  I think m0nastic is right. I use some of the apps you mention, but also use Rdio and RunKeeper on a daily basis. Those both materially affect the enjoyment of my phone. You certainly have a point, most apps are downloaded then never used. But I think everyone's "few apps" are different with lots of overlap in the apps you mention.
- bradleyland 15y ago
  No argument on the app usage side of things. I think if you drew a giant venn diagram of actual app usage on iOS, it'd look like a giant circle with fuzzy edges, but I think that's missing the point. "The platform" isn't synonymous with apps. The platform is becoming more than what runs on your phone; quite the opposite. Both Google and Apple have built the type of platforms being referred to when casting doubt on the future of MeeGo. The central feature of those platforms, up until about six months ago, was their capability to run applications. This is shifting quickly to the ability to store data in a way that is transparent to the user. Google can, right now, give you seamless, transparent access to documents on a phone, tablet, or desktop computer with no thought or action from the user outside of logging in and browsing to the location of the document. There is no syncing. The same is true for email, calendar, and contacts. When iCloud ships this fall, Apple will be in the same position. What would it take for Nokia to bring MeeGo to that point? This is "the platform" that I can't see Nokia building, and I believe it's going to set the bar for every major player in the space in the coming years.
- achompas 15y ago
  Except for Twitter... This is a variation of m0nitaly's point: I would say "except for Instapaper, Reeder, and Twitter..." and Jasber would say "except for Rdio and RunKeeper..." Even if apps 1-10 are native, I'm hanging onto my iPhone for numbers 11 and 12. The native iOS experience is great, but those two or three non-native apps make it sublime.
  - esrauch 15y ago
    I still think that is really only true of the "geek" crowd. I am pretty sure none of my real life friends that weren't computer science majors have even heard of Instapaper or Reeder or Rdio or RunKeeper. The majority of the "number 11" apps that I use are mainly because either they don't have a workable mobile site (HN) or the mobile website doesn't quite work well enough (reddit, imdb, possibly facebook) but the latter category should be fixed just from phones getting slightly better and certain mobile oriented technologies coming out (like HTML5 offline support). On a side note (not related to current enjoyment of phones) I really think it's not too long until the only things that are necessarily apps use lower hardware features (GPS, compass, camera, Shazam, game graphics), with even some of those possibly moving into the browser (disclosing location to sites already exists on desktop, Google just launched voice search on their desktop search). I also think its a bit disingenuous to put the Twitter app (not an alternate third party Twitter app) in the same category as the others. Right now, a new mobile device would probably have a Twitter app and maybe even a Facebook app as a "native" app. When I got my phone Twitter and Facebook was already installed on it, equally presented alongside all the "native" apps like Googles, Maps, Music, Navigation, etc.
    - wvenable 15y ago
      My boss makes very heavy use of the Starbucks app. My daughter has a billion apps that she uses daily and they aren't all games.
    - achompas 15y ago
      I still think that is really only true of the "geek" crowd. I am pretty sure none of my real life friends that weren't computer science majors have even heard of Instapaper or Reeder or Rdio or RunKeeper. I disagree. I have friends who love Tiny Wings, Angry Birds, Pandora, the DC Next Bus app, SimpleNote, NPR and Fruit Ninja. Most of these are iOS-only, and those that are not have abysmal Android versions. As for Twitter being native: are we talking about the Twitter for iOS app? Because the iOS app is indispensable relative to other options.
- cwe 15y ago
  "except for twitter" which, of course, is becoming a built in capability soon. Even more to your point.
- cageface 15y ago
  Maybe the real value of the app store (for Apple) is that Apple lets third parties take the risk of trying out new ideas and then they co-opt whatever really takes off into the next rev of iOS?
dkarl 15y ago
Exactly. My "few apps" include Kindle, iPeng, Last.fm, Netflix, Yelp, and lately, a Spanish-English dictionary. Also, my "few apps" has changed over time. Two years ago, the only one of those apps I was using a lot was iPeng, and some of the apps I used on a near-daily basis back then have been relegated to my "Attic" folder.
ebiester 15y ago
Yes, but how many of those native apps can be replaced with web apps that already exist? Is 2,000 enough for 80% of people? A few great games, some time wasters, and the basic smartphone functionality? There are always going to be a few developers who take a chance on a new platform, especially if it's developer friendly. And if the 2,000 come and are well received, the rest will follow.
- megablast 15y ago
  Most people do not see Android, Apple and Nokia devices as being any different. They all have big screens, cameras, web, email, etc... They don't understand specs, so they judge on what they know. They do know apps, so this is one way in which they will judge the use of a phone. Now, nobody will use 300,000 apps, but everyone knows 300,000 is better than 100,000, or 2,000.
  - georgemcbay 15y ago
    I completely disagree. Once a platform hits a critical mass of app support (well below 300k, still well below 100k and even below 2k though that's in the right neighborhood), bigger numbers are a net negative, IMO. A hundred thousand more apps is just a ton more garbage you have to wade through to find the very few good ones.
mailarchis 15y ago
I think the point above is there was no need for Nokia to abandon meego as their mobile platform just because it is too late to arrive at the party and doesn't have enough developers building apps for it. As long as it got the core experience right.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  Except Nokia didn't abandon Meego. They're strategy is pretty straightforward and sound. 1) Focus on WP7 for the short/medium term. They'll be the premiere phone on the OS and if it takes off, they'll rake in the cash. 2) In the meanwhile MS gives them a boatload of money. 3) Develop Meego in the background and push it later down the line. The problem, as noted in the leaked stories, is that they didn't have a pipeline of Meego phones that would be ready to go. And while the phone design looks great, the OS looks a bit stale still. So get the OS in good shape, while not hemorraging too much cash.
  - eonwe 15y ago
    I am having problems believing the 3rd point as Nokia is just laying of a lot of Meego-developers. As for current Maemo/Meego-experience, I think not much can actually be said before the phones appear at stores this fall.
    - brmorris 15y ago
      nokia are not laying off any meego developers.
      - stonemetal 15y ago
        http://www.mwkn.net/2011/18/front.html http://www.mwkn.net/2011/18/front.html 4000 mostly from meego and symbian. So yes they actually are laying off at least some meego devs.
dave1010uk 15y ago
I have a N900, which runs Maemo 5 (Fremantle); the N9 runs Maemo 6 (Harmattan)-MeeGo. They both share many system packages and both advertise Qt as thair main development platform. The N900 was not as heavily marketed as the N9 is but there's still thousands of apps for it. I've got over 150 apps installed but the only apps I use daily are the web browser, phone, SMS, email and the terminal (I wouldn't count commandline tools like git, vi, python, wget, ssh "apps"). My point is that even if the N9 has 1% of the number of apps available as iOS then there's still probably loads of apps to cover many people's "few app" choices.
loschorts 15y ago
I agree -- and not just an ecosystem, but competition. Apple's native apps have to be up to snuff because of pressure from the store. Those few apps that rise to the top did so in part from the mechanism of competition.
notatoad 15y ago
>The problem is that those "few apps" that most other people use aren't the same "few apps" that he uses. are they really? having one or two obscure apps might be nice, but there are very, very few people for whom app availability is actually a necessity.
thirdsun 15y ago
Exactly. I guess most people would agree that there are only a handful of apps they really care about and use. As much as I like the efforts made on Meego, Windows mobile 7 and even WebOS (android not so much), as long as there is no alternative to reeder, instacast or kinetic, I'm not likely to switch anything. Of course there are feed readers, podcast management and sports tracking apps on other platforms but the big advantage of iOS is that a lot of developers are really commited to their projects resulting in apps that stand out.

mailarchis 15y ago

It is interesting. I guess yesterday an article which compared the % of users using addons on firefox vs those on chrome. Firefox had the higher number. But its probably more of an indicator that chrome is reaching out to mainstream user base. I don't think that the mobile platform domination will be decided by how many apps the platform has in the app store. Will it be dominated by the best platform that nails the core use cases best like iPhone as mentioned in above article ? Well maybe, it will. But then it just might happen that the one with highest distribution channels will win the race.

dhh 15y ago
The whole point of this is that there need be no race. If all you need to compete is to do the core set of 10 apps better than the other guy, it's completely doable. If you need a 200K app ecosystem, it's not. OS X is a great example of this as well. I switched because it did the basics better than Windows back in the early 2000s. Back when it had virtually no apps and Windows had all of them.
- cageface 15y ago
  Laptops are different for me because they're big enough and powerful enough to do non-trivial work. I use my phone for checking email and bus-stop web surfing but I have a Macbook instead of something running Ubuntu because I need Photoshop and Ableton Live.

kenjackson 15y ago

This is the exact argument I make to others about why the app long tail is less important than you think. In fact I made the argument here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2664559 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2664559 You nail the basics as listed above, and have a basic app ecosystem and you're fine. Much like how the web neutralized the desktop OS advantage -- we'll see it happen even faster in mobile.

alex_c 15y ago
That is basically what Apple did with the iPhone. There were lots of apps for the other mobile platforms at the time, but the iPhone was simply in a different class. The problem is that today, you have to come up with something that much better than the iPhone. If a Nokia phone and an iPhone are of comparable quality (which I think has yet to happen), but the iPhone also offers you access to a huge variety of apps, then why would you get the Nokia? It needs to be significantly better in some way.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  I needs to be significantly better to gain mind share, not to market share.

smackfu 15y ago

He doesn't use his phones for games at all. I think that is a fairly common use among those who buy apps.

pclark 15y ago

The "few apps" he needs vary wildly person to person. Here are mine: TweetBot, WakeMate, SimpleNote, Spotify, Meebo. Additionally gaming is a primary category for platform growth, if you do not have a vast amount of good games you are stuffed.

hernan7 15y ago

Maybe there is a niche for a not-so-smart phone: like a dumb phone, but with a usable web browser. I could live with a phone like that.

revorad 15y ago
I totally agree. A good cheap tablet (weblet?) like that would also be very useful to me.
- icebraining 15y ago
  That was the N800, a few years ago.
  - revorad 15y ago
    That's quite small (4 inches?). My ideal size would be that of the Kindle, like the HTC Flyer, but not as stupidly expensive.
kenjackson 15y ago
The problem is that this phone would likely be on the same data plan as smart phones -- especially as HTML5 comes of age. So while the phone might be marginally cheaper (a 3GS is what, $49?), it'll still cost you the same amount per month. That makes it a non-starter. That's largely what happened with the Kin. Of course the great untold story, is that the Kin is selling really well now -- as a feature phone.
m0nastic 15y ago
Microsoft tried that with the Kin. The problem (at least one of the problems) was that it still cost as much as a real smartphone. Particularly, the monthly plans were still the same, which I think makes potential buyers pause and say something like: "If I'm going to be paying this much money per month, wouldn't it make sense to at least have the ability to use apps, even if I don't need them now".
MatthewPhillips 15y ago

saturdaysaint 15y ago

If "all you need is 10 apps", then the platform is relatively unimportant, and it doesn't matter if you're just distributing someone else's software. Personally, I'd add a few apps to his "must have" list - Kindle, Netflix, Wunderlist, Rdio, Facebook, iTalk (Dropbox-enabled voice recorder), Dropbox, Instacast (high quality podcast app), Downloads, The Economist, VNC software, Audible, ComicZeal... Also, I expect a robust tablet ecosystem, strong syncing/backup capabilities and good accessories. The N9 isn't looking too attractive to me.

sant0sk1 15y ago
+1 on Dropbox, Instacast, and Netflix. Allow me to add a few of my daily use apps: Instapaper, Reeder, iOctocat, TrackerBot, and Evernote.
esrauch 15y ago
I've found the Facebook Android app to be lacking compared to their mobile site, maybe the iPhone app is better. As for Kindle, Netflix, VNC, and ComicZeal I just could not fathom actually using a 3 inch screen for visual media. I've used the Netflix app once or twice when I didn't have easy access to a laptop, but those situations are exceedingly rare and the experience was very lackluster. They also completely murdered my battery so I pretty much had to have my phone plugged in if I planned on having any power to use my phone in a few hours, so the application of it would be seriously limited. It feels like you are confounding iPhone and iOS in general (you specifically mentioned tablet ecosystem). The N9 is a phone and I cannot fathom why you would care that the OS that your phone runs on has a robust tablet ecosystem. I also feel like you have must have a very unusual lifestyle to consider Kindle and Netflix apps on your phone at all imperative; do you have an unusual commute or something?
- bad_user 15y ago
  Meh, it got better -- what I like about my Android is that it can sync Facebook contacts with my contacts list, giving me extra emails (or phone numbers, but maybe that was an illusion) -- and most importantly, I have my friends avatars in my contacts, without me bothering to go out of my way to take their pictures. So the Android/Facebook integration is useful for me. I do tend to agree with DHH -- besides the browser, GMail and Maps, I only use 3 apps I got from the Marketplace, plus one that I built myself. Other than that I don't bother, as my laptop is much better for everything else and when going out I only feel the need to stay connected, otherwise I would rather drink beer or play with my kid, rather than playing stupid games that are no match for the games I used to play in the 90-ties, or watch movies on a shitty screen. It is useful for commuting to work though, but that doesn't help me as I'm 5 minutes away from my work-place and I also have the freedom to work from home when I feel like doing it. DHH said it better, but I had the same impression - people are overestimating the importance of an App Store. It's useful to be sure, but the phone can initially sell without it.

dasil003 15y ago

I'm not sure I agree that the app ecosystem doesn't matter, but one thing is for sure, there are way too many app stores being launched and most of them suck. Certainly it would make sense to focus on the core user experience first instead of some half-baked attempt to confront to out do Apple's whole platform.

Cherian_Abraham 15y ago

N9 is fucked, not just because of the lack of third party devs developing for the MeeGo platform. As per Engadget, Nokia plans to have N9 on sale on Sept 23, right after the iPhone5 launch and several Android, WebOS and Mango phones that will be released between now and then. Sounds like bringing Knife to a Gunfight? The processor underneath the N9 is already dated and they think releasing end of third quarter was a sound idea? WTF?

KeyBoardG 15y ago
Not to mention the Meego team has a limited time left at Nokia. From what I've read Meego will run Android apps via the Dalvic JVM. If that were the case I would rather run the leaner Meego than Android.

hnsmurf 15y ago

The problem is everyone has a different 10 apps they "need" and even if you figure only 1% of apps fall into that category for someone, there's still a lot of value in a platform of 200k apps.

robenkleene 15y ago

It is worth pointing out that this is 37 Signals. Which means, just by dogfood-ing, they get rid of many of the major 3rd party app categories. Productivity software make up a lot of the most useful 3rd party apps, and 37 Signals makes web productivity software that cover the same territory. It doesn't mean their point isn't still interesting, it's just good to remember context.

antidaily 15y ago

To be sure, most people just want facebook, pandora and most especially angry birds. But can I get every episode of Top Chef or the latest Golf Digest on the N9 (or even Android)? I think access to content within iTunes is more compelling than the 200k apps. And it seems to be what Apple is betting on.

hnsmurf 15y ago

Also the notion of using only a few apps doesn't apply to games, which is one of the killer features of smart phones. They are largely meant to be disposable, and you assume you'll be playing new ones periodically. I might keep 7 or 8 utility apps that I frequently use, but I've got a constantly rotating selection of about 1 or 2 games I'll play, and I'm not even much of a gamer.

MaxGabriel 15y ago
John Gruber ran a series of posts about this for awhile, about how iOS had significantly better 3rd party game selection, and especially from larger brands

ChrisLTD 15y ago

DHH is probably right that most people only use a fraction of apps, and that should mean any phone could succeed versus the iPhone or Android phones. However, I doubt people are rational enough to realize this when they go out to buy their new smartphone. Even though I only use ~10 apps on my iPhone and iPad, I'd be wary of buying into another platform that didn't offer the same breadth of choice.

icebraining 15y ago

Nevertheless, the support for Alien Dalvik[1] might help. [1]: http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n9-android-app-support-promised-with-alien-dalvik-22160809/ http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n9-android-app-support-promis...

scrrr 15y ago

I suspect that in a few years there'll only be two (native) apps: Making phonecalls + webbrowser. (yes the webbrowser will also play mp3s and talk to the camera to take pictures)

sheriff 15y ago
Why couldn't the web browser also make phone calls?

atacrawl 15y ago

The platform as a whole matters a lot less than the exclusivity of its best apps.

thestoicjester 15y ago

This reminds me very much of Navin R. Johnson. Not only just in phrasing, but also the attitude that he'll be "just fine" with his few apps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbI5zcB8Ac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbI5zcB8Ac

briggsbio 15y ago

I'm taking a different read of this article, I guess. I view this not as a "who cares what phone I use, since I rarely use the 3rd party apps." I take this, and some other commenters do as well who have significant usage of some 3rd party apps (Netflix, Kindle, Instapaper, et al), as a challenge to build better apps that provide more functionality. Every time I look down at that 4" screen and think about all the things I can do with it, I still look at it and think, "Good lord, there is SO MUCH MORE we haven't even seen yet!" And it makes me want a whiteboard so I can start mapping out ideas. There is still a huge amount of opportunity to create incredible apps. Social Media apps have been done every which way from Sunday, content apps as well, To-Do lists are certainly overdone, and basic note apps as well (though there are some unique innovations that could be done on note apps IMO). But look at those categories, compared to all the incredible things these devices can do? There are still big wins to be made in mobile app development, both native and browser-based.

jdietrich 15y ago

The iPhone had sold millions of units before the app store launched. A significant proportion of iPhone and iPad users have downloaded less than a handful of apps. I'm very much of the opinion that apps were more effective as a viral marketing strategy than as a truly attractive feature. People talk about apps, people show their friends, but most of the non-geeks I know don't actually use anything but the built in apps, a Twitter or Facebook app and Angry Birds. A lot of people in the comments are generalising from their own experience and that of their peers, which is just a classic geek mistake. I think Apple have been clever in perpetrating the myth that the App Store gives them an unassailable "ecosystem", but I think what really sold the iPhone was the fact that it's core features were so damned useable. Their rivals have been falling over each other to attract developers, when they should probably have been working on making the core features work better. Look at the stats on mobile data usage - until the iPhone came along, nobody really bothered to use their smartphone's browser because the experience was so unpleasant. At one point 99% of all mobile data was being used by Mobile Safari. Android is catching up, but iPhone users still spend a disproportionate amount of time using their phone's browser. That has nothing to do with an "ecosystem".

cheez 15y ago
Not so with Android. My wife annoys the hell out of me showing all the crap she can do with her homescreen.
- Roritharr 15y ago
  I for one would be glad if my wife would be interested in android enough to do anything but complain that it's sometimes slow, or has bugs.
  - idonthack 15y ago
    maybe you should have thought of that when you were choosing a wife.
  - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
    Maybe she'd show more interest if she didn't find it slow and buggy?

KeyBoardG 15y ago

I agree mostly with these 10 apps. Its why I hung onto my BlackBerry for so long. My jump to WP7 was mostly for the screen resolution and browser.

georgieporgie 15y ago

I liked my Palm IIIx (1999) better than my Android. That's not to say it was better, just that its simple, snappy, tightly integrated set of base apps helped me be more productive. My Android, which comes with nothing very useful, makes me unproductive. PDAs were great time savers whereas 'smart' phones are great ways to get ads in front of people. :-)

technomancy 15y ago
What amazes me is that from what I can tell no modern mobile platform allows you to sync contact info as seamlessly as IRDA did in '99. I had a Palm V, but I could point the thing at my friends' Nokias and get their numbers in seconds. The closest thing I've seen is Bump, which is cool but nowhere near as immediate. Plus it's a 3rd-party install.
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  For what it's worth, in Japan it's 100% standard to exchange virtual contact info via IR. Every time I witnessed a meeting of new acquaintances, people would automatically begin to form circles and exchange contact info. It's so cheap and effective, it really does make you wonder why it's so rare on American phones. The only electronic contact exchange I've ever witnessed in the US was between Googlers using 2D barcodes. I've never seen anyone use IR or Bluetooth.

tptacek 15y ago

I used to think I was this way about the iPhone too, but if I look at what apps I use constantly, it's more than 2: PCalc, Rdio, Remote, Instagram, RTM, Screens.

spicyj 15y ago
Curious – what do you use Screens for?
- tptacek 15y ago
  Controlling the Mac Mini under my TV.
  - spicyj 15y ago
    I see, for the keyboard mostly? I always thought using a mouse over VNC on an iPhone seemed awkward.
    - tptacek 15y ago
      It mostly drives Rdio.

AndrewDucker 15y ago

I don't _need_ apps. But why would I switch from a phone that has apps for Spotify, real time updates for local buses, Facebook and Twitter to one that doesn't?

dave1010uk 15y ago
I know it's not really the point but the N9 has a Facebook / Twitter client built in. There's a few Spotify clients already for Maemo (what the N9 is based on) so I expect there to be at least one before the N9 launches.

nasmorn 15y ago

I think the compass is great. If you get out into the world sometimes and arent a gazzillionaire you can't use Google Maps even if you happen to have a signal. On my trip to Argentina for example a GB of roaming data was 15000 USD. In words fifteen thousand dollars. And if you didn't download an offline map back home, GPS is not going to help you much.

buro9 15y ago

The problem is, which 10 varies from person to person.

kleiba 15y ago

I don't have a Smartphone, but I can relate to the basic notion very much. I mainly do desktop computing, and lots of it, but pretty much all I ever need are four "apps": the shell, a browser, an email client, and Emacs. That's what I use 95% of the time. Then a PDF viewer, OpenOffice.org, and every now and then the Gimp or Inkscape. So basically, 10 apps is all I need, too. But at the same time, if I scroll through synaptics there are many, many packages that I have installed over the years. Most of them I probably used only once or twice, unless they're libraries. But for those couple of times, it was great having the "ecosystem" to get them with a simple click. So I suppose it's always a mixture: the 10 apps you use 95% of the time should rock. But the remaining 5% should be painless, too.

dave1010uk 15y ago
FYI, as the N9 is based on Debian, most of the programs you mentioned should run on it. I use OpenOffice.org and The Gimp occasionally on my phone if I really need to (the 3.5" screen is not ideal but it works).
- kleiba 15y ago
  Cool! Is it possible to attach a screen, a mouse and a keyboard to a Smartphone? That should be fun...
  - dave1010uk 15y ago
    Phones that support USB host (or USB on the go) could have a keyboard / mouse. I've done that with my N900. I don't think the N9 supports USB host out of the box but I bet some enterprising hackers will get it working. The N9 also has TV out (but not HDMI). You could, alternatively, connect the keyboard / mouse via USB. Nokia's N8 has USB host and HDMI out but runs the Symbian platform. Here's a demo of the N8 connected to a TV & a keyboard / mouse: http://dailymobile.se/2010/10/07/nokia-n8-hdmi-bluetooth-keyboardmouse-win/ http://dailymobile.se/2010/10/07/nokia-n8-hdmi-bluetooth-key...
    - 15y ago

kkowalczyk 15y ago

One can wonder if a platform becomes successful because of a rich ecosystem of apps or if rich ecosystem of apps follows success of a platform, but the undeniable fact of life is: every successful computing platform also has a rich ecosystem of apps. Be it Windows, Mac OS, web, iphone, playstation or Commodore 64. So reality strongly hints that you cannot have successful computing platform without a rich ecosystem of apps. If you've read reviews of Android tablets, there was one thing that every reviewer brought up: there are no tablet-specific appsh. Applying Ockham's razor, is it because: a) reviewers are part of world-wide anti-Android tablet conspiracy that coordinates talking points in their reviews b) we have a freak statistical event of reviewers being in sync in their out-of-touchiness wrt. what is important for potential tablet buyers c) people actually do care about having lots of apps to choose from Do we really have tens of thousands gullible developers who write hundreds of thousands of apps that nobody wants or buys, or maybe, just maybe, developers are following the money and writing apps because people are actually buying and using them?

windsurfer 15y ago
Compare and contrast A and B. A has features X and Y. B only has feature X. B is missing Y. Reviewer complains.
- kkowalczyk 15y ago
  I give reviewers a little bit more credit than that and believe they are capable of telling a difference between important and marginal.
  - smackfu 15y ago
    Reviewers have been pretty terrible forever. See: any review framework that enforces a Pros & Cons list at the end.

rtc 15y ago

The reason that 200,000 apps is huge is not because all 200,000 benefit a single user; rather it's because 200,000 apps enables millions of people to write this exact same post, but substitute Echofon and Bloomberg (his 2 daily use apps) with App X and App Y.

tsycho 15y ago

Reminds of that other saying about most users using only 10% of features in Microsoft Excel......it's just that every one uses a different 10% of features (or apps in this case) :)

tobylane 15y ago

Variety is also good. Just because you know you love these ten apps doesn't mean you want to be confined to them. I have 350 apps on my ipod, I only use five weekly, but if I had to stay entertained for a few days I'd play all 100+ games. I'd still prefer my Kindle.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

rogerbraun 15y ago

But it's the same for non-mobile platforms. I only use 10 applications on my computer, too, and I try to avoid platforms that don't have these. Of course, one might argue that everyone needs the same apps on a smartphone (telephony, messaging, notes...) but why not use a regular phone, then?

Steko 15y ago

Let's look at his 10 apps or more specifically what he didn't list. Would your phone/tablet experience be degraded without the following: RSS Skype iBooks/Kindle Netflix/Hulu Pandora/radio Video Calling all games Mine would be and there are many more that I use less but value highly. Barcode scanners, Fandango, White Noise, flight trackers, turn by turn, Word Lens, a whole suite of reference materials that work offline. A browser can replace some of them, somewhat. Chrome's promise is to replace nearly all of them completely but that's not here yet and is really just moving the goalposts. Today I may not need all of these apps but I love that I have them.

smackfu 15y ago
...and the main problem with that list is that 3 or 4 of them are proprietary platforms. So if Netflix or Amazon doesn't decide to support your platform, tough luck. You will never have access to your movies or books.

papertowel 15y ago

I don't agree with the premise. If Apple had nailed the basics, why there are still many popular apps for camera, weather, clocks, photos and maps? I also take issue with the fact that just because someone uses a few apps 95% of the time, they don't need other apps. Some apps are really valuable only in some circumstances like when you want to know how to go to an obscure place.

petekp 15y ago

Mostly agree with David’s points. I have at least 30 apps on my iPhone. Of those, I use 5-6 on a regular basis, half of which were developed by Apple and came pre-installed. The endless variety of the app store is impressive, but there’s so much cruft in there it’s beginning to feel more like an app Walmart. A large fraction are either redundant or slapped together to make a quick buck. I’d trade the majority of my apps just to have more seamless interaction with those aspects of this device I find most useful; the camera app in particular. It’s perplexing that Apple has just now decided to allow us to use a volume button as a shutter. I’ll forgive that on the basis of the brilliant decision to add a camera shortcut on the lock screen — that is an example of the type of improvements that really make a difference in the everyday utility of these incredible pocket machines. Whoever masters the art of making it easy for a five-fingered hand to effortlessly soar through those fundamental functions it’s difficult to imagine being without (phone, messaging, browser and camera in particular) is who will ultimately earn my dollar. /raaant

ja27 15y ago
On my phone (Android) I regularly use Touchdown (Exchange email), GMail, Twitter, Facebook, Foursquare, Google Talk, PdaNet, Google Maps, GPS Status, c:geo (geocaching), WeatherBug, Pomodroido, Wireless Tether and somewhat regularly use Evernote, Dropbox, and NXT Remote (drives LEGO bots). On my iPod Touch besides the built-in apps I pretty regularly use Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, Stanza (e-reader), YouVersion Bible, Evernote, PomodoroLE, iTalk, Skype, NYTimes, ESPN ScoreCenter, Opera Mini, VLC, and two of my company's own apps. I regularly play a few games: the Angry Birds line, StarDunk, Trainyard, HarborMaster, LEGO Harry Potter, Dungeon Raid, Words With Friends and Carcassonne. Every couple of weeks I use Yelp, Urban Spoon, Geocaching, and Wolfram Alpha. My phone is a bit crippled due to slow speed and lack of space or else I'd use a more apps there. I pretty much grab every interesting iOS app that I see and give it a try.

jsz0 15y ago

As many people have said the challenge is everyone's 10 apps are a bit different and that's why you need a big software catalog. This is especially true of games. You can only play Angry Birds so many times. There are hundreds of other really great iOS games out there. The author says he can live without playing Civilization but when the price tag for the phone and service is basically the same that's a tough sell. We also cannot underestimate the simple joy of consumption people get from buying/sampling different apps. A device that lacks this experience is always going to feel limited even if you spend 95% of your time in the same 10 apps it does provide.

cpg 15y ago

What? It's a bit strident for the sake of it. "Fuck the platform" then ... "they nailed the basics" ... that's essentially the platform too, I say.

switch 15y ago

What monastic wrote: * I feel like he's missing the point of an ecosystem. It's fine that he only uses a few apps on his phone, and that most other people probably do the same. The problem is that those "few apps" that most other people use aren't the same "few apps" that he uses. * All the arguments against this are arguments made by people not willing to step out of their own perspective. 1) The particular apps that are critical vary per person. 2) The number of such critical apps vary per person. 3) The weight given to these apps when valuing the iPhone varies per person. Most importantly - in a system where iPhone is already as good or better (or if you have religion of openness, a little worse) than nearly every other phone - the apps become a huge advantage.

EdgarZambrana 15y ago

This is why Windows Phone is so much better than the competition. It integrates all of the most commonly used features in a smartphone into a simple, cohesive experience.

delackner 15y ago

I'm not sure what the name is for this, but this is the same incorrect reasoning that lead to the idea that the russians could compete against capitalism with a planned economy. Just make the ten tractors and chicken plucking machines that everyone needs! The only way the next really amazing app comes along that EVERYONE wants is for a seething ocean of developers churn through ideas fighting for users.

zem 15y ago

but everyone needs a different ten!