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the point is that the child of a billionaire starts off with a 100% chance of being a millionaire. the rest of us can try for 50x or 100x longer than avg but th

the point is that the child of a billionaire starts off with a 100% chance of being a millionaire. the rest of us can try for 50x or 100x longer than avg but the odds of getting to that level are still miniscule. and if that's the case it makes the whole endeavor seem rather arbitrary

WalterBright 6y ago
It is not minuscule. For middle class people, the route to millionaire status is very doable. Live below your means, and regularly invest the difference. For poor people, the route is to learn a valuable skill, move into the middle class, then apply the above.
- lordnacho 6y ago
  That just moves the goal posts by a level, doesn't it? What's the chance you have a low stress upbringing that allows you to work towards such goals? Parents who are supportive and believe in that middle class dream, teachers who don't give up on you when you misbehave, enough comfort to not have to focus on immediate concerns?
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    You can blame your parents and teachers up until age 18, then it's on you.
    - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
      Nonsense. You can't rationally compare the life chances of someone whose parents are billionaires - with access to that network, and the best schooling, and discussions about investing over dinner - with someone born in a shack without a book in the house. An incredibly tiny number of people will be able to do well from a near-zero start. And most will do it by being aggressively self-serving narcissists. Everyone else is going to have a much tougher time.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        Migrants who walk a thousand miles to get into the US come with nothing, yet they on average do rather well here. > without a book in the house Everybody has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to millions of free books.
        lordnacho 6y ago
        > Everybody has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to millions of free books. And which ones should you read?
        throwawaysea 6y ago
        That’s for the person to figure out. If they’re hard working, they’ll sacrifice [some leisure activity] to research which books to read.
        lordnacho 6y ago
        A reasonable attitude, but one that you would only arrive at if you were fortunate enough to pick the right books to begin with. Or the right teachers.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        "Siri, which free books should I read?"
    - anoncake 6y ago
      Who you are depends on your upbringing, so no, it's never on you.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        > it's never on you People are not robots. For example, you chose to type your message. The computer did not drag your hapless body over to the computer and force you to type it in.
        anoncake 6y ago
        Yes, they pretty much are. Extremely complicated, organic, robots. But that is not the point. Your choices depend on your personality and abilities, which in turn depend on your upbringing and experiences.
        throwawaysea 6y ago
        I think you’re getting close to arguing that there is no free will and that everything in the universe is therefore luck or randomness. Perhaps one way to look at it is that even if humans philosophically are robots, the ones who sacrifice more (via hard work) deserve different, better outcomes.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        If I followed you around for a day, I could point out all the choices you chose to make and could have chosen to do differently.
        anoncake 6y ago
        And you would be wrong every single time because free will is an illusion. That aside, people always make the best choices they can – no one chooses to chose badly. You can't blame them for not making a better choice since you can't expect anyone to do something they cannot.
    - lordnacho 6y ago
      That's one of those statements that's useful as an attitude, not so useful as an explanation. I'm sure people can think of ways your parents influence you after the age of majority.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        The point is you have a choice, and you're old enough to know if following your parents' advice is a good idea or not. At 18 it's time to grow up and take responsibility for your life.
        lordnacho 6y ago
        Have you never someone who thought they had to please their parents well into adulthood? On one hand, yes, on paper you are free when you are 18. On the other hand, you can't be free without some sort of confidence that you'll be ok if you don't do what your parents say. And if your parents are the domineering kind, they'll have made good use of your first 18 years to keep you in their orbit. Real life is complicated, not everyone has clarity, especially at that age.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        It's their choice, not their destiny. Young people reject their parents all the time. A pervasive issue in parenting is the kids refuse to listen to the parents. Movies about it are quite popular - see "Dirty Dancing", "Saturday Night Fever", on and on and on. I'm not buying the lack of agency of young people. It's just another excuse for choosing the easy way. If you are not where you want to be in life, have you done anything today to move towards that goal? If you've done nothing, then choose better. It's your life, not mine. Complaining about not being a billionaire's son is a waste of your life. If you're in the US, of sound mind and body, and over 18, there's never been a time in history with more opportunity for you. If you refuse to see it, nobody can help you. But just think about all those migrants with nothing walking thousands of miles with the hope of getting into the US. What do they know that you don't?
doggodaddo78 6y ago
This is true. It takes money, knowledge, and connections to make money. It's like a virtuous cycle / differential equation (rate of increase proportional to the amount). A homeless person becoming a billionaire is highly-improbable vs. Steve Job's kids.

WalterBright 6y ago

It is not minuscule. For middle class people, the route to millionaire status is very doable. Live below your means, and regularly invest the difference. For poor people, the route is to learn a valuable skill, move into the middle class, then apply the above.

lordnacho 6y ago
That just moves the goal posts by a level, doesn't it? What's the chance you have a low stress upbringing that allows you to work towards such goals? Parents who are supportive and believe in that middle class dream, teachers who don't give up on you when you misbehave, enough comfort to not have to focus on immediate concerns?
- WalterBright 6y ago
  You can blame your parents and teachers up until age 18, then it's on you.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Nonsense. You can't rationally compare the life chances of someone whose parents are billionaires - with access to that network, and the best schooling, and discussions about investing over dinner - with someone born in a shack without a book in the house. An incredibly tiny number of people will be able to do well from a near-zero start. And most will do it by being aggressively self-serving narcissists. Everyone else is going to have a much tougher time.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      Migrants who walk a thousand miles to get into the US come with nothing, yet they on average do rather well here. > without a book in the house Everybody has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to millions of free books.
      - lordnacho 6y ago
        > Everybody has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to millions of free books. And which ones should you read?
        throwawaysea 6y ago
        That’s for the person to figure out. If they’re hard working, they’ll sacrifice [some leisure activity] to research which books to read.
        lordnacho 6y ago
        A reasonable attitude, but one that you would only arrive at if you were fortunate enough to pick the right books to begin with. Or the right teachers.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        "Siri, which free books should I read?"
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Who you are depends on your upbringing, so no, it's never on you.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      > it's never on you People are not robots. For example, you chose to type your message. The computer did not drag your hapless body over to the computer and force you to type it in.
      - anoncake 6y ago
        Yes, they pretty much are. Extremely complicated, organic, robots. But that is not the point. Your choices depend on your personality and abilities, which in turn depend on your upbringing and experiences.
        throwawaysea 6y ago
        I think you’re getting close to arguing that there is no free will and that everything in the universe is therefore luck or randomness. Perhaps one way to look at it is that even if humans philosophically are robots, the ones who sacrifice more (via hard work) deserve different, better outcomes.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        If I followed you around for a day, I could point out all the choices you chose to make and could have chosen to do differently.
        anoncake 6y ago
        And you would be wrong every single time because free will is an illusion. That aside, people always make the best choices they can – no one chooses to chose badly. You can't blame them for not making a better choice since you can't expect anyone to do something they cannot.
  - lordnacho 6y ago
    That's one of those statements that's useful as an attitude, not so useful as an explanation. I'm sure people can think of ways your parents influence you after the age of majority.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      The point is you have a choice, and you're old enough to know if following your parents' advice is a good idea or not. At 18 it's time to grow up and take responsibility for your life.
      - lordnacho 6y ago
        Have you never someone who thought they had to please their parents well into adulthood? On one hand, yes, on paper you are free when you are 18. On the other hand, you can't be free without some sort of confidence that you'll be ok if you don't do what your parents say. And if your parents are the domineering kind, they'll have made good use of your first 18 years to keep you in their orbit. Real life is complicated, not everyone has clarity, especially at that age.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        It's their choice, not their destiny. Young people reject their parents all the time. A pervasive issue in parenting is the kids refuse to listen to the parents. Movies about it are quite popular - see "Dirty Dancing", "Saturday Night Fever", on and on and on. I'm not buying the lack of agency of young people. It's just another excuse for choosing the easy way. If you are not where you want to be in life, have you done anything today to move towards that goal? If you've done nothing, then choose better. It's your life, not mine. Complaining about not being a billionaire's son is a waste of your life. If you're in the US, of sound mind and body, and over 18, there's never been a time in history with more opportunity for you. If you refuse to see it, nobody can help you. But just think about all those migrants with nothing walking thousands of miles with the hope of getting into the US. What do they know that you don't?

doggodaddo78 6y ago

This is true. It takes money, knowledge, and connections to make money. It's like a virtuous cycle / differential equation (rate of increase proportional to the amount). A homeless person becoming a billionaire is highly-improbable vs. Steve Job's kids.