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There is not such thing. Every single thing can lose its value. In addition: Real estate can be bombed in a war or confiscated[0] and is not mobile for obviou

There is not such thing. Every single thing can lose its value. In addition: Real estate can be bombed in a war or confiscated[0] and is not mobile for obvious reasons[1]. Gold can be stolen, confiscated - and it happened already more than once. Companies can go bankrupt. Items - either productive like machinery or various stores of value like art are not immune. Cash/bank accounts - well, money printing will get you here. Cryptocurrency - ridiculously volatile, many exciting dangers, can be stolen remotely with no recourse. You are looking for an unicorn. [0] For "real estate will never go down in value" fans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Destroyed_Warsaw,_capital_of_Poland,_January_1945_-_version_2.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Destroyed_Warsaw,_capital... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_Brennkommando-firing_Warsaw_1944.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_Brennkommando-firi... [1] Fun fact: Polish words for real estate is "nieruchomości", "nonmovables"

McScroogy 6y ago
I thought as much. I suppose some things are riskier than others, but at the moment I really don't know which ones.
- baq 6y ago
  risk always changes. you should be constantly reviewing and updating your exposure according to your risk assessments. (for some, this is daily; for others, once a year may be enough.) if you don't want to do the work - understandable, since it's an impossible amount - you might want to start from looking at the bond market. this is what they get paid for. (not saying that you should be buying bonds - but look at relative price of bonds)
chewz 6y ago
> [0] For "real estate will never go down in value" fans: You realise that these properties in the picture (Plac Defilad right in the centre of Warsaw) are worth a lot nowadays. And descendants of the original owners get compensated (the land had been confiscated after WW2 by communist government). So I would rather say that real estate could be illiquid with temporarily depressed prices occasionally. https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Panorama_ul._Emilii_Plater_w_Warszawie_radek_ko%C5%82akowski.jpg https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Panorama_ul._Emilii_Plate...
- matkoniecz 6y ago
  > the land What about people who owned a flat? Have they got compensations restoring entire value? AFAIK no in general. Or even a noticeable part of original value? One of my friends recently got compensation (after 60 years old legal battle initiated by person who died before it completed). But that was for property that survived WWII and got confiscated after it. > And descendants of the original owners get compensated In other words value of original property went down (especially given opportunity cost). And they were quite lucky, in similar cases many lost without recourse. But overall I agree with the main point: real estate is one of best stores of value, some of it can survive even that. But describing it as never, ever loosing value is not true - in many cases it lost part or all value, permanently, without compensation.
  - chewz 6y ago
    I agree with your arguments. But there is another asset class beside real estate - arable land. People see gold as store of value which is false to some degree - gold was historically more of mean of exchange (of landed wealth) while the universal asset class paying regular dividends since Roman Empire until Industrial Revolution was arable land. And to a degree still is but since Industrial Revolution there are many alternative assets available that provide better/competitive returns (like government bonds) Of course land could also be taken away but that happens very rarely (Communist revolutions in Russia, China, Central Europe). Historically land-owning class is stable. For example in largest wealth grabs in European history (Burgundians in France, Vandals in North Africa and best of all Norman conquest of Britain) there was generally sharing and mixing between old and new land-owners.
    - matkoniecz 6y ago
      Yes, that should be less fragile than flats/buildings and even more resistant. As a city dweller posting on internet I somehow missed arable land in a comment about good stores of capital. Go me! Despite that my cousin owns large farm. Staying for so long in my family that it was located in 5 countries since my family moved into that specific location. But still, it is not a magic pixie dust: your land can be confiscated, or taken by sea/river or polluted by industry/salt. Or it may be turned into wetland/desert by some other external changes beyond your control.
tremon 6y ago
Fun fact: Polish words for real estate is "nieruchomości", "nonmovables" Same in NL, "onroerend goed" translates (literally) as "non-roaming goods".
herbst 6y ago
> can be stolen remotely with no recourse. By bruteforcing into the wild? What are ypu referring to?
- matkoniecz 6y ago
  Malware scanning for wallets is not unusual. In some cases password (private key) as sole and sufficient method to have full control over asset, executable by anyone is a problem not a benefit.
  - herbst 6y ago
    Malware stealing bank accounts, credit cards & paypal is just as popular. All of which you have no real influence about the actual account security.
    - NicoJuicy 6y ago
      Banks have more security measures in particular. You can't just login to paypal from another IP. You can't just login into most emails these days ( 2FA) Crypto wallets have none of those protections. Other than that: EOS (dPoS) reversed transactions multiple times while being top 10 at the time: https://cointelegraph.com/news/eos-reverses-previously-confi https://cointelegraph.com/news/eos-reverses-previously-confi... Ethereum Classic was attacked multiple times with chain reversing double spends due to not enough energy being committed to immutability: https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-classic-attacker-successfu https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-classic-attacker-successfu... Ethereum reversed the "DAO hack" with a hard fork.
      - herbst 6y ago
        > Crypto wallets have none of those protections. Which is simply not true, there at least 100 Wallets just in the Android Store. You think none of them has some kind of additional protection?

McScroogy 6y ago

I thought as much. I suppose some things are riskier than others, but at the moment I really don't know which ones.

baq 6y ago
risk always changes. you should be constantly reviewing and updating your exposure according to your risk assessments. (for some, this is daily; for others, once a year may be enough.) if you don't want to do the work - understandable, since it's an impossible amount - you might want to start from looking at the bond market. this is what they get paid for. (not saying that you should be buying bonds - but look at relative price of bonds)

chewz 6y ago

> [0] For "real estate will never go down in value" fans: You realise that these properties in the picture (Plac Defilad right in the centre of Warsaw) are worth a lot nowadays. And descendants of the original owners get compensated (the land had been confiscated after WW2 by communist government). So I would rather say that real estate could be illiquid with temporarily depressed prices occasionally. https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Panorama_ul._Emilii_Plater_w_Warszawie_radek_ko%C5%82akowski.jpg https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Panorama_ul._Emilii_Plate...

matkoniecz 6y ago
> the land What about people who owned a flat? Have they got compensations restoring entire value? AFAIK no in general. Or even a noticeable part of original value? One of my friends recently got compensation (after 60 years old legal battle initiated by person who died before it completed). But that was for property that survived WWII and got confiscated after it. > And descendants of the original owners get compensated In other words value of original property went down (especially given opportunity cost). And they were quite lucky, in similar cases many lost without recourse. But overall I agree with the main point: real estate is one of best stores of value, some of it can survive even that. But describing it as never, ever loosing value is not true - in many cases it lost part or all value, permanently, without compensation.
- chewz 6y ago
  I agree with your arguments. But there is another asset class beside real estate - arable land. People see gold as store of value which is false to some degree - gold was historically more of mean of exchange (of landed wealth) while the universal asset class paying regular dividends since Roman Empire until Industrial Revolution was arable land. And to a degree still is but since Industrial Revolution there are many alternative assets available that provide better/competitive returns (like government bonds) Of course land could also be taken away but that happens very rarely (Communist revolutions in Russia, China, Central Europe). Historically land-owning class is stable. For example in largest wealth grabs in European history (Burgundians in France, Vandals in North Africa and best of all Norman conquest of Britain) there was generally sharing and mixing between old and new land-owners.
  - matkoniecz 6y ago
    Yes, that should be less fragile than flats/buildings and even more resistant. As a city dweller posting on internet I somehow missed arable land in a comment about good stores of capital. Go me! Despite that my cousin owns large farm. Staying for so long in my family that it was located in 5 countries since my family moved into that specific location. But still, it is not a magic pixie dust: your land can be confiscated, or taken by sea/river or polluted by industry/salt. Or it may be turned into wetland/desert by some other external changes beyond your control.

tremon 6y ago

Fun fact: Polish words for real estate is "nieruchomości", "nonmovables" Same in NL, "onroerend goed" translates (literally) as "non-roaming goods".

herbst 6y ago

> can be stolen remotely with no recourse. By bruteforcing into the wild? What are ypu referring to?

matkoniecz 6y ago
Malware scanning for wallets is not unusual. In some cases password (private key) as sole and sufficient method to have full control over asset, executable by anyone is a problem not a benefit.
- herbst 6y ago
  Malware stealing bank accounts, credit cards & paypal is just as popular. All of which you have no real influence about the actual account security.
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    Banks have more security measures in particular. You can't just login to paypal from another IP. You can't just login into most emails these days ( 2FA) Crypto wallets have none of those protections. Other than that: EOS (dPoS) reversed transactions multiple times while being top 10 at the time: https://cointelegraph.com/news/eos-reverses-previously-confi https://cointelegraph.com/news/eos-reverses-previously-confi... Ethereum Classic was attacked multiple times with chain reversing double spends due to not enough energy being committed to immutability: https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-classic-attacker-successfu https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-classic-attacker-successfu... Ethereum reversed the "DAO hack" with a hard fork.
    - herbst 6y ago
      > Crypto wallets have none of those protections. Which is simply not true, there at least 100 Wallets just in the Android Store. You think none of them has some kind of additional protection?