13 ms·

Librem 14 begins shipping

249 points by nathancahill 6y ago

Guest42 6y ago
Impressive specs for a good price. I can’t imagine needing more than 16 gb of ram for a laptop but it is tempting although I imagine that would tax the battery a bit. Does anyone know how compatible pureos is with Ubuntu apps in general?
- vinceguidry 6y ago
  PureOS is Debian-based, so the packaging is the same, though the repositories are different. It's not a good idea to install Ubuntu packages onto a Debian based system, though they can work. If you decide you really want Ubuntu, like I did when I got my Librem 13, it's really easy to install. If you want PureBoot that might take some extra doing. I can't tell from a cursory read of the docs whether it works for Ubuntu. Coreboot should work fine though.
  - Guest42 6y ago
    Thank you, I’ll have to investigate.
    - torgian 6y ago
      I think it could be worth trying to dual-boot the system as well, one with Ubuntu. Then you could potentially have best of both worlds.
  - KAMSPioneer 6y ago
    Pureboot with Ubuntu will work fine. I got Pureboot working on Fedora, which just took some fiddling (and help from the Pureboot Matrix room).
- fsflover 6y ago
  > I can’t imagine needing more than 16 gb of ram for a laptop Try Qubes OS and it won't be enough.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
dhruvdh 6y ago
They are lacking in AMD options in most of their products I checked. Hopefully that's something that'll change in the future.
- sigg3 6y ago
  From the 2020 interview with FLOSS Weekly, I gather that they're target higher mid-range (ThinkPad, MacBook). Src: https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/581?autostart=false https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/581?autostart=fa... In this 2016 thread, they state that "ARM doesn’t offer high-enough power." I believe they mean processing power. They chose Intel in anticipation of a possibly ME free chip in the future. Src: https://forums.puri.sm/t/intel-ime-alternatives/235/8 https://forums.puri.sm/t/intel-ime-alternatives/235/8 In this more recent 2020 thread, they mention the lack of a GPU. When referred to the Apple ARM line, they state that the chip is not available to them; Src: https://forums.puri.sm/t/alternative-cpu-for-a-librem-product/9707/4 https://forums.puri.sm/t/alternative-cpu-for-a-librem-produc...
  - hrrsn 6y ago
    AMD, not ARM
- fsflover 6y ago
  You cannot neutralize PSP [0] in AMD CPUs, whereas you often can neutralize Intel ME [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processo... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Commercial_ME_disablement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Commer...
  - varispeed 6y ago
    Can this be bypassed by running virtualised operating system - e.g. having a bootloader that loads an encrypted virtual machine? I guess it could still have access to keyboard and could read the password or if you used the usb key with authenticator.
monsieurbanana 6y ago
It looks nice. But if you ask me to describe what a "linux dream laptop" would have, a 16:10 screen would definitely be up there. What I'm looking for in a laptop has also evolved, it's no longer (just) raw power but battery life, how noisy the fan is, how hot it gets under load, etc... Not sure how the intel chipset handles all this. I'll wait for more in-depth reviews.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Supposedly a 3:2 resolution screen is the new sweet spot, or so I’ve heard from reviewers on YouTube.
  - dguaraglia 6y ago
    I've been using a Matebook X Pro (from Huawei) for the past three years and I have to agree: a 3:2 ratio (at 3000x2000 resolution) is amazing. I've been slowly looking around for a newer machine for work, but honestly most screens suck in comparison.
    - throwawaysea 6y ago
      The HP Spectre x360 14 may be what you’re looking for - it has a 3:2 aspect ratio and options for both an OLED screen (better color, worse battery life) or regular LCD screen (built in electronic privacy filter, better battery life). https://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/hp-spectre-x360-14-review/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/hp-spectre-x360...
      - dguaraglia 6y ago
        I've been pondering getting the 15 inch Spectre, I just can't get over the weird placement of the touchpad and the keyboard including a numeric pad. I know it's silly, but it's just... why make something so pretty then make it asymmetric? It's bizarre.
- mroche 6y ago
  > a 16:10 screen would definitely be up there. I’d take it a step further and suggest 3:2. Yes, more pixels (for matching X-dimension pixels) means more power draw, but you get a slightly increased height which is valuable real estate. And that small bump won’t be that much more noticeable when watching media full screen compared to 16:10. 4:3 offers much more, but it gets a bit silly and letterboxing would get pretty heavy, and if you want to HiDPI the display at 2x, that’s a ton more pixels compared to the sibling ratios. Examples: - 1920x1080: 2160 (16:9) - 1920x1200: 2400 (16:10) - 1920x1280: 2560 (3:2) - 1920x1440: 2880 (4:3) But I’m with you on all the other points.
grae_QED 6y ago
I remember reading somewhere that the version of Coreboot they use for these laptops aren't entirely blobless like Libreboot. Is that true?
- rambojazz 6y ago
  While I can't confirm it to you for sure, I would say that it's very likely the case. Libreboot cannot run on modern hardware, I don't see how Purism laptop could.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Yes: https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/ https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/.
walrus01 6y ago
a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? Good luck with that when you want to copy some large files, or do anything network intensive, and your speeds max out at 65 Mbps between laptop and AP. As compared to the easily 300-450Mbps you can do in a 40 MHz channel with a 2x2 802.11ac connection. (Not even going to get into 3x3 and 80 MHz channel speeds here). looking at the librem 14 product specs page I can't even find any details on what exact chipset and antenna configuration it is. At that price it needs to be 802.11ac/ax 3x3 MIMO dual band. Overall it makes me wonder what other shoddy stuff might be used as various subsystems/components of the laptop, if I sat down with one and did "sudo lspci -v". For this "Gigabit Ethernet Adapter with Integrated RJ45 Connector" am I going to find a realtek chipset that belongs in a $430 laptop you can buy at Best Buy? And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box?
- bscphil 6y ago
  Agreed. This article [1], though a bit old, suggests it's for idealist reasons: only these old Atheros chips have open firmware. Given that Intel processors are pretty dependent on close sourced microcode anyway and they're using a i7-10710U, I must admit I don't really see the point. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.htm...
  - walrus01 6y ago
    I really don't see the point either, since I somehow doubt that they have access to the source code of the Intel CPU's integrated graphics firmware. Or of the gigabit ethernet controller they're using. Or the firmware of the SSD. What exactly are they gaining by standing on principle and not using a proper modern 802.11ac/ax interface?
    - ganafagol 6y ago
      Yes, you are not seeing the point because you are missing it. This laptop is in a niche that's obviously not yours. Offering as much freedom as possible comes at a price. A price paid in money, in one-generation-older hardware of some components, and in making compromises that some components are not as free as they ideally would be, but which don't have alternatives. You don't fit that niche, apparently, but just don't go buy it then. Instead of ranting, go buy an overpriced macbook and leave other people to their own choices. As comparison, it's like saying that current EVs are not totally carbon-neutral, too slow and too expensive so you don't see the point and keep buying cars with ICEs. You are free to have that opinion, but it's not the only one around.
talknewswale 6y ago
COVID संकट के बीच, पीएम मोदी कुंभ भागीदारी को प्रतीकात्मक रखने का किया आग्रह https://talknewswale.com/News_detils/122 https://talknewswale.com/News_detils/122
imwillofficial 6y ago
I’m really happy with my M1 MacBook, but by god I love what these guys are doing. When I can afford it I think I’m going to grab one of these to support them. Maybe stuff it in a bug out bag or something.
- xvector 6y ago
  I was deliberating between this and the M1 MacBook for the longest time. After too many delays I eventually just bought the M1 MacBook, but I really wonder what owning the Librem 14 with Qubes would have been like. It’s basically the perfect Qubes machine.
  - DrAwdeOccarim 6y ago
    Same here, but I just couldn't go for the M1. Then again, this is just a home use laptop (no work intensive use) so I can manage with a lower-tier system. Hell, I still use my mid 2011 macbook air and it's fine so I can't imagine the Purism 14 being worse...
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    I forgot about Qubes! Ok it’s def on my list now. I adore the idea of QubesOS
- opan 6y ago
  Consider the MNT Reform as well for such a purpose.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mycarauction 6y ago
"MyCarAuction provides car sellers with a better way to sell a car online. Receive cash offers on your car by simply adding your VIN number. Our vision is to be the world’s most efficient way to sell your car for the most money and the most convenience." https://mycarauction.com/ https://mycarauction.com/
torgian 6y ago
A lot of comments here about the price for older components. But people forget that these guys ( apparently ) spent time and research on figuring out the most secure tech out there to build a laptop. And then probably paying extra to suppliers because of the old tech availability, lower amount of total orders, future RnD.... I mean, how dare they try to make some money, right?
- m463 6y ago
  I think they could always save/make money the traditional way: - reduce engineering costs by adding telemetry to make all your customers debug for you. - conveniently save all telemetry forever, just in case you can sell it for money. - pop-up advertising. I think those videos that play at the gas station would look good on the bootup screen. If the bootup is too short, then lock the desktop until it is finished. - take away features, then sell them back as upgrades. adjustable volume? $5
  - unixhero 6y ago
    Get this man up into marketing at Oracle.
    - m463 6y ago
      - per-seat licensing for useradd - fortune command interstitials - busy-loot-box I don't think oracle equity will match my monetization, but maybe I can partner with them for an ogrep idea I've been mulling over.
  - 74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
    - preinstalling excellent software like McAffee for virus protection
    - unionpivo 6y ago
      I just vomited in my mouth a little
  - 6y ago
fsflover 6y ago
More details about the laptop features: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-14-rave/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-14-rave/.
5tefan 6y ago
I like it. Good philosophy. Also no need for raw power for my use cases.
Black101 6y ago
Nice, it as a matte screen.
umanwizard 6y ago
Bit of a tangent, but does anyone know if a laptop with the following properties exists? * 3140x2160 or better resolution * No discrete graphics card
- hoppyhoppy2 6y ago
  Definitely a tangent. But certain Lenovo X1 Carbon models have 3840x2160 displays with integrated intel graphics. (Maybe other Lenovo models too, and quite probably some from other manufacturers, I'm just not familiar with those.)
- siver_john 6y ago
  There are plenty that have 4K screens and no discrete graphics cards, the X1 Carbon from Lenovo is one, I'm pretty certain Dell, LG, etc have similar models as well.
1timewonderacc 6y ago
I hope processor backdoor is disabled by default. Otherwise this laptop will be a paperweight. [1] [1] https://hackaday.com/2020/06/16/disable-intels-backdoor-on-modern-hardware/ https://hackaday.com/2020/06/16/disable-intels-backdoor-on-m...
- pydry 6y ago
  It's mentioned on the product page.
  - 1timewonderacc 6y ago
    You are correct, I did not see this. Thanks! "Less binary blob firmware and disabled manufacturer backdoors" on https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ Than its a perfect laptop to have if you care about your privacy.
- crazypython 6y ago
  They developed software and hardware to disable it. https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/
NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
I can't wait to give these guys more of my money. They're doing good work.
azalemeth 6y ago
It still is a great shame that all of Librem's products only ship with an EN-US keyboard layout. I'm not sure that there are many good privacy-focused or even just Linux-laptop options in Europe – beyond Dell, I'd love to hear your suggestions.

249 points by nathancahill 6y ago

Impressive specs for a good price. I can’t imagine needing more than 16 gb of ram for a laptop but it is tempting although I imagine that would tax the battery a bit. Does anyone know how compatible pureos is with Ubuntu apps in general?

vinceguidry 6y ago
PureOS is Debian-based, so the packaging is the same, though the repositories are different. It's not a good idea to install Ubuntu packages onto a Debian based system, though they can work. If you decide you really want Ubuntu, like I did when I got my Librem 13, it's really easy to install. If you want PureBoot that might take some extra doing. I can't tell from a cursory read of the docs whether it works for Ubuntu. Coreboot should work fine though.
- Guest42 6y ago
  Thank you, I’ll have to investigate.
  - torgian 6y ago
    I think it could be worth trying to dual-boot the system as well, one with Ubuntu. Then you could potentially have best of both worlds.
- KAMSPioneer 6y ago
  Pureboot with Ubuntu will work fine. I got Pureboot working on Fedora, which just took some fiddling (and help from the Pureboot Matrix room).
fsflover 6y ago
> I can’t imagine needing more than 16 gb of ram for a laptop Try Qubes OS and it won't be enough.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

dhruvdh 6y ago

They are lacking in AMD options in most of their products I checked. Hopefully that's something that'll change in the future.

sigg3 6y ago
From the 2020 interview with FLOSS Weekly, I gather that they're target higher mid-range (ThinkPad, MacBook). Src: https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/581?autostart=false https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/581?autostart=fa... In this 2016 thread, they state that "ARM doesn’t offer high-enough power." I believe they mean processing power. They chose Intel in anticipation of a possibly ME free chip in the future. Src: https://forums.puri.sm/t/intel-ime-alternatives/235/8 https://forums.puri.sm/t/intel-ime-alternatives/235/8 In this more recent 2020 thread, they mention the lack of a GPU. When referred to the Apple ARM line, they state that the chip is not available to them; Src: https://forums.puri.sm/t/alternative-cpu-for-a-librem-product/9707/4 https://forums.puri.sm/t/alternative-cpu-for-a-librem-produc...
- hrrsn 6y ago
  AMD, not ARM
fsflover 6y ago
You cannot neutralize PSP [0] in AMD CPUs, whereas you often can neutralize Intel ME [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processo... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Commercial_ME_disablement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Commer...
- varispeed 6y ago
  Can this be bypassed by running virtualised operating system - e.g. having a bootloader that loads an encrypted virtual machine? I guess it could still have access to keyboard and could read the password or if you used the usb key with authenticator.

monsieurbanana 6y ago

It looks nice. But if you ask me to describe what a "linux dream laptop" would have, a 16:10 screen would definitely be up there. What I'm looking for in a laptop has also evolved, it's no longer (just) raw power but battery life, how noisy the fan is, how hot it gets under load, etc... Not sure how the intel chipset handles all this. I'll wait for more in-depth reviews.

throwawaysea 6y ago
Supposedly a 3:2 resolution screen is the new sweet spot, or so I’ve heard from reviewers on YouTube.
- dguaraglia 6y ago
  I've been using a Matebook X Pro (from Huawei) for the past three years and I have to agree: a 3:2 ratio (at 3000x2000 resolution) is amazing. I've been slowly looking around for a newer machine for work, but honestly most screens suck in comparison.
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    The HP Spectre x360 14 may be what you’re looking for - it has a 3:2 aspect ratio and options for both an OLED screen (better color, worse battery life) or regular LCD screen (built in electronic privacy filter, better battery life). https://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/hp-spectre-x360-14-review/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/hp-spectre-x360...
    - dguaraglia 6y ago
      I've been pondering getting the 15 inch Spectre, I just can't get over the weird placement of the touchpad and the keyboard including a numeric pad. I know it's silly, but it's just... why make something so pretty then make it asymmetric? It's bizarre.
mroche 6y ago
> a 16:10 screen would definitely be up there. I’d take it a step further and suggest 3:2. Yes, more pixels (for matching X-dimension pixels) means more power draw, but you get a slightly increased height which is valuable real estate. And that small bump won’t be that much more noticeable when watching media full screen compared to 16:10. 4:3 offers much more, but it gets a bit silly and letterboxing would get pretty heavy, and if you want to HiDPI the display at 2x, that’s a ton more pixels compared to the sibling ratios. Examples: - 1920x1080: 2160 (16:9) - 1920x1200: 2400 (16:10) - 1920x1280: 2560 (3:2) - 1920x1440: 2880 (4:3) But I’m with you on all the other points.

grae_QED 6y ago

I remember reading somewhere that the version of Coreboot they use for these laptops aren't entirely blobless like Libreboot. Is that true?

rambojazz 6y ago
While I can't confirm it to you for sure, I would say that it's very likely the case. Libreboot cannot run on modern hardware, I don't see how Purism laptop could.
fsflover 6y ago
Yes: https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/ https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/.

walrus01 6y ago

a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? Good luck with that when you want to copy some large files, or do anything network intensive, and your speeds max out at 65 Mbps between laptop and AP. As compared to the easily 300-450Mbps you can do in a 40 MHz channel with a 2x2 802.11ac connection. (Not even going to get into 3x3 and 80 MHz channel speeds here). looking at the librem 14 product specs page I can't even find any details on what exact chipset and antenna configuration it is. At that price it needs to be 802.11ac/ax 3x3 MIMO dual band. Overall it makes me wonder what other shoddy stuff might be used as various subsystems/components of the laptop, if I sat down with one and did "sudo lspci -v". For this "Gigabit Ethernet Adapter with Integrated RJ45 Connector" am I going to find a realtek chipset that belongs in a $430 laptop you can buy at Best Buy? And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box?

bscphil 6y ago
Agreed. This article [1], though a bit old, suggests it's for idealist reasons: only these old Atheros chips have open firmware. Given that Intel processors are pretty dependent on close sourced microcode anyway and they're using a i7-10710U, I must admit I don't really see the point. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.htm...
- walrus01 6y ago
  I really don't see the point either, since I somehow doubt that they have access to the source code of the Intel CPU's integrated graphics firmware. Or of the gigabit ethernet controller they're using. Or the firmware of the SSD. What exactly are they gaining by standing on principle and not using a proper modern 802.11ac/ax interface?
  - ganafagol 6y ago
    Yes, you are not seeing the point because you are missing it. This laptop is in a niche that's obviously not yours. Offering as much freedom as possible comes at a price. A price paid in money, in one-generation-older hardware of some components, and in making compromises that some components are not as free as they ideally would be, but which don't have alternatives. You don't fit that niche, apparently, but just don't go buy it then. Instead of ranting, go buy an overpriced macbook and leave other people to their own choices. As comparison, it's like saying that current EVs are not totally carbon-neutral, too slow and too expensive so you don't see the point and keep buying cars with ICEs. You are free to have that opinion, but it's not the only one around.

talknewswale 6y ago

COVID संकट के बीच, पीएम मोदी कुंभ भागीदारी को प्रतीकात्मक रखने का किया आग्रह https://talknewswale.com/News_detils/122 https://talknewswale.com/News_detils/122

imwillofficial 6y ago

I’m really happy with my M1 MacBook, but by god I love what these guys are doing. When I can afford it I think I’m going to grab one of these to support them. Maybe stuff it in a bug out bag or something.

xvector 6y ago
I was deliberating between this and the M1 MacBook for the longest time. After too many delays I eventually just bought the M1 MacBook, but I really wonder what owning the Librem 14 with Qubes would have been like. It’s basically the perfect Qubes machine.
- DrAwdeOccarim 6y ago
  Same here, but I just couldn't go for the M1. Then again, this is just a home use laptop (no work intensive use) so I can manage with a lower-tier system. Hell, I still use my mid 2011 macbook air and it's fine so I can't imagine the Purism 14 being worse...
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  I forgot about Qubes! Ok it’s def on my list now. I adore the idea of QubesOS
opan 6y ago
Consider the MNT Reform as well for such a purpose.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mycarauction 6y ago

"MyCarAuction provides car sellers with a better way to sell a car online. Receive cash offers on your car by simply adding your VIN number. Our vision is to be the world’s most efficient way to sell your car for the most money and the most convenience." https://mycarauction.com/ https://mycarauction.com/

torgian 6y ago

A lot of comments here about the price for older components. But people forget that these guys ( apparently ) spent time and research on figuring out the most secure tech out there to build a laptop. And then probably paying extra to suppliers because of the old tech availability, lower amount of total orders, future RnD.... I mean, how dare they try to make some money, right?

m463 6y ago
I think they could always save/make money the traditional way: - reduce engineering costs by adding telemetry to make all your customers debug for you. - conveniently save all telemetry forever, just in case you can sell it for money. - pop-up advertising. I think those videos that play at the gas station would look good on the bootup screen. If the bootup is too short, then lock the desktop until it is finished. - take away features, then sell them back as upgrades. adjustable volume? $5
- unixhero 6y ago
  Get this man up into marketing at Oracle.
  - m463 6y ago
    - per-seat licensing for useradd - fortune command interstitials - busy-loot-box I don't think oracle equity will match my monetization, but maybe I can partner with them for an ogrep idea I've been mulling over.
- 74d-fe6-2c6 6y ago
  - preinstalling excellent software like McAffee for virus protection
  - unionpivo 6y ago
    I just vomited in my mouth a little
- 6y ago

fsflover 6y ago

More details about the laptop features: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-14-rave/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-14-rave/.

5tefan 6y ago

I like it. Good philosophy. Also no need for raw power for my use cases.

Black101 6y ago

Nice, it as a matte screen.

umanwizard 6y ago

Bit of a tangent, but does anyone know if a laptop with the following properties exists? * 3140x2160 or better resolution * No discrete graphics card

hoppyhoppy2 6y ago
Definitely a tangent. But certain Lenovo X1 Carbon models have 3840x2160 displays with integrated intel graphics. (Maybe other Lenovo models too, and quite probably some from other manufacturers, I'm just not familiar with those.)
siver_john 6y ago
There are plenty that have 4K screens and no discrete graphics cards, the X1 Carbon from Lenovo is one, I'm pretty certain Dell, LG, etc have similar models as well.

1timewonderacc 6y ago

I hope processor backdoor is disabled by default. Otherwise this laptop will be a paperweight. [1] [1] https://hackaday.com/2020/06/16/disable-intels-backdoor-on-modern-hardware/ https://hackaday.com/2020/06/16/disable-intels-backdoor-on-m...

pydry 6y ago
It's mentioned on the product page.
- 1timewonderacc 6y ago
  You are correct, I did not see this. Thanks! "Less binary blob firmware and disabled manufacturer backdoors" on https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ Than its a perfect laptop to have if you care about your privacy.
crazypython 6y ago
They developed software and hardware to disable it. https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/ https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago

I can't wait to give these guys more of my money. They're doing good work.

azalemeth 6y ago

It still is a great shame that all of Librem's products only ship with an EN-US keyboard layout. I'm not sure that there are many good privacy-focused or even just Linux-laptop options in Europe – beyond Dell, I'd love to hear your suggestions.