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Did the collapse of the Eastern Roman Empire in 1450 have a greater impact than the end of the empire in the west on the modern world?

joe_the_user 6y ago
I don't think so. Islamic societies had already appeared and the Ottoman Empire was in the process of expand. I think Byzantium primarily controlled areas in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus. The development that happened there came later, from elsewhere.
- billfruit 6y ago
  Historians think middle ages ended at the fall of Constantinople. From then on progress towards the modern world was swift.
  - joe_the_user 6y ago
    But I haven't heard a single analysis claiming the fall of Constantinople actually caused this and the parent article gives a pretty standard analysis why the fall of the Western Roman Empire eventually gave rise to the modern world. The fall of Constantinople was more a matter that a variety of more advanced societies (Venice, the Turks, etc) were rising and the Byzantines were there, so why not loot them, as far as I understand the situation.
    - didericis 6y ago
      I listened to a podcast called “12 Byzantine Rulers” a while back. I believe they said a number of people fleeing after Constantinople fell made it into Venice and transplanted a lot of old knowledge that had been locked up and stagnant within the city. The Renaissance and the Enlightenment were both heavily influenced by a resurgence of interest in classical work that seems to have started around the exact same time Constantinople fell. I don’t know enough history to know all the reasons in favor or against that argument, but it makes a lot of sense to me that it was a contributing factor.
      - joe_the_user 6y ago
        Well what you know, there is a connection, it seems, https://web.archive.org/web/20030930225420/http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/late/laterbyz/harris-ren.html https://web.archive.org/web/20030930225420/http://www.the-or...
      - EarlKing 6y ago
        The fleeing of scholars from Constantinople to Venice is comparable to the fleeing of scholars from Ionia to mainland Greece in the wake of the failed Ionian Revolt which kickstarted the golden age of Greek philosophy. They appeared at the right place and time with the right ideas which took root and transformed Western Europe.
        didericis 6y ago
        It’s humbling to trace these kinds of intellectual lineages. Makes you appreciate the millennia of accumulated knowledge we’ve inherited/how everyone seems to be standing on the shoulders of the past.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > From then on progress towards the modern world was swift. Personally I credit the printing press as the dividing line (yes I know the fall of Constantinople was at the same time). Sometimes I idly think what would I invent if I was transported via mcguffin to ancient Rome. I'd invent paper and the printing press.
    - fidesomnes 6y ago
      bicycles. all they would of needed was bicycles.

joe_the_user 6y ago

I don't think so. Islamic societies had already appeared and the Ottoman Empire was in the process of expand. I think Byzantium primarily controlled areas in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus. The development that happened there came later, from elsewhere.

billfruit 6y ago
Historians think middle ages ended at the fall of Constantinople. From then on progress towards the modern world was swift.
- joe_the_user 6y ago
  But I haven't heard a single analysis claiming the fall of Constantinople actually caused this and the parent article gives a pretty standard analysis why the fall of the Western Roman Empire eventually gave rise to the modern world. The fall of Constantinople was more a matter that a variety of more advanced societies (Venice, the Turks, etc) were rising and the Byzantines were there, so why not loot them, as far as I understand the situation.
  - didericis 6y ago
    I listened to a podcast called “12 Byzantine Rulers” a while back. I believe they said a number of people fleeing after Constantinople fell made it into Venice and transplanted a lot of old knowledge that had been locked up and stagnant within the city. The Renaissance and the Enlightenment were both heavily influenced by a resurgence of interest in classical work that seems to have started around the exact same time Constantinople fell. I don’t know enough history to know all the reasons in favor or against that argument, but it makes a lot of sense to me that it was a contributing factor.
    - joe_the_user 6y ago
      Well what you know, there is a connection, it seems, https://web.archive.org/web/20030930225420/http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/late/laterbyz/harris-ren.html https://web.archive.org/web/20030930225420/http://www.the-or...
    - EarlKing 6y ago
      The fleeing of scholars from Constantinople to Venice is comparable to the fleeing of scholars from Ionia to mainland Greece in the wake of the failed Ionian Revolt which kickstarted the golden age of Greek philosophy. They appeared at the right place and time with the right ideas which took root and transformed Western Europe.
      - didericis 6y ago
        It’s humbling to trace these kinds of intellectual lineages. Makes you appreciate the millennia of accumulated knowledge we’ve inherited/how everyone seems to be standing on the shoulders of the past.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > From then on progress towards the modern world was swift. Personally I credit the printing press as the dividing line (yes I know the fall of Constantinople was at the same time). Sometimes I idly think what would I invent if I was transported via mcguffin to ancient Rome. I'd invent paper and the printing press.
  - fidesomnes 6y ago
    bicycles. all they would of needed was bicycles.