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That's because the "stink of old PHP" never really went away. For example, Wordpress install guide [0] still talks about making your code directory writtable b

by theamk 6y ago

That's because the "stink of old PHP" never really went away. For example, Wordpress install guide [0] still talks about making your code directory writtable by web user -- practically guaranteed that any minute exploit will lead to permanent web shell. So does Nextcloud install guide [1]. I am sure there are nice, modernPHP somewhere, but a lot of time you I see old-style programs with horrible security practices. [0] https://wordpress.org/support/article/how-to-install-wordpress/ https://wordpress.org/support/article/how-to-install-wordpre... [1] https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/installation/source_installation.html#installation-wizard https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/instal...

zodiakzz 6y ago
Not just writeable by web user. The page here[1] suggests making files and folders world writeable all over the place (to be fair, followed by disclaimers.. but still). >If you use Permalinks you should also change permissions of .htaccess to make sure that WordPress can update it when you change settings such as adding a new page, redirect, category, etc.. which requires updating the .htaccess file when mod_rewrite Permalinks are being used. Go to the main directory of WordPress Enter chmod -v 666 .htaccess Making a server configuration file (.htaccess) world-writeable. What could go wrong? I am amazed that shared hostings still somehow manage to keep their tenants safe from each other. 1: https://wordpress.org/support/article/changing-file-permissions/ https://wordpress.org/support/article/changing-file-permissi...
akie 6y ago
WordPress is about as old as Netscape Navigator. Am I judging JavaScript based on the hot mess it was in these days? Using WordPress as an example for the state of PHP is disingenuous.
- oefrha 6y ago
  1. WordPress was released in 2003, Netscape Navigator was basically dead by then. 2. It’s fair to judge a language by its dominant platform / use case. Rails (2004) and Django (2005) are barely younger than WordPress. Is it fair to judge Ruby and (one facet of) Python by examining Rails and Django respectively? Yes.
- theamk 6y ago
  According to some statistics [0], Wordpress is used on 41% websites in the world. That’s a lot of websites! Even if those numbers are inflated, It is still likely the most popular PHP app in the world. It is not disingenuous to judge a language by its most popular application. I wonder what fraction of PHP programmers today mostly work with Wordpress.. and how many PHP jobs involve maintaining Wordpress apps. [0] https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cm-wordpress https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cm-wordpress
2ion 6y ago
The list goes on, I have a pet peeve with matomo (aka piwik) for example. Impossible to do immutable containers --- it's just bad software design, not a fault of the language itself. But because these softwares are old and have an user base, design errors remain throughout decades.

by theamk 6y ago

zodiakzz 6y ago

Not just writeable by web user. The page here[1] suggests making files and folders world writeable all over the place (to be fair, followed by disclaimers.. but still). >If you use Permalinks you should also change permissions of .htaccess to make sure that WordPress can update it when you change settings such as adding a new page, redirect, category, etc.. which requires updating the .htaccess file when mod_rewrite Permalinks are being used. Go to the main directory of WordPress Enter chmod -v 666 .htaccess Making a server configuration file (.htaccess) world-writeable. What could go wrong? I am amazed that shared hostings still somehow manage to keep their tenants safe from each other. 1: https://wordpress.org/support/article/changing-file-permissions/ https://wordpress.org/support/article/changing-file-permissi...

akie 6y ago

WordPress is about as old as Netscape Navigator. Am I judging JavaScript based on the hot mess it was in these days? Using WordPress as an example for the state of PHP is disingenuous.

oefrha 6y ago
1. WordPress was released in 2003, Netscape Navigator was basically dead by then. 2. It’s fair to judge a language by its dominant platform / use case. Rails (2004) and Django (2005) are barely younger than WordPress. Is it fair to judge Ruby and (one facet of) Python by examining Rails and Django respectively? Yes.
theamk 6y ago
According to some statistics [0], Wordpress is used on 41% websites in the world. That’s a lot of websites! Even if those numbers are inflated, It is still likely the most popular PHP app in the world. It is not disingenuous to judge a language by its most popular application. I wonder what fraction of PHP programmers today mostly work with Wordpress.. and how many PHP jobs involve maintaining Wordpress apps. [0] https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cm-wordpress https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cm-wordpress

2ion 6y ago

The list goes on, I have a pet peeve with matomo (aka piwik) for example. Impossible to do immutable containers --- it's just bad software design, not a fault of the language itself. But because these softwares are old and have an user base, design errors remain throughout decades.