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A simple move that would ban selling fossil power plants for cryptocurrencies mining purpose BUT allowing to do so for the carbon-neutral energy would be a win-

by xvilka 6y ago

A simple move that would ban selling fossil power plants for cryptocurrencies mining purpose BUT allowing to do so for the carbon-neutral energy would be a win-win for both sides and will help the transition from carbon-heavy energy.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pcthrowaway 6y ago
I'm wondering if 'carbon-neutral' energy production is really environmentally neutral, especially when channeled to cryptocurrency mining. Take wind turbines: they've found that harvesting wind actually increases the temperature in an area. Do enough of this, coupled with channeling the energy into heat-producing machines, are we sure this isn't gong to contribute to global warming at scale? Not to mention the harm to avian wildlife, as the turbines kill 5 birds per year each on average. Next you have the externalized costs of building the infrastructure. Producing the wind turbines, the power plant, and the GPUs. Is all of that really getting offset? I'm very optimistic about the potential for cryptocurrency to change the world, but I'd like that to be for the better. And when we have emerging proof-of-stake platforms that have much less of an impact on the planet because they don't by design rely on energetically inefficient ways to secure their networks, I really don't understand how we can argue that proof-of-work cryptocurrencies have any place in the future.
- seoaeu 6y ago
  > Take wind turbines: they've found that harvesting wind actually increases the temperature in an area. Do enough of this, coupled with channeling the energy into heat-producing machines, are we sure this isn't gong to contribute to global warming at scale? That's some anti-renewable energy FUD I hadn't seen before... Yes, we're sure that won't cause global warming. Wind turbine operation doesn't produce greenhouse gases or meaningful change the Earth's albedo.
  - bostonsre 6y ago
    I guess if we theoretically had enough wind turbines, climates could start being impacted due to winds being slowed down but not exactly sure if that would heat the earth more or not. Could an area with lots of turbines have slower wind speeds and have heat dissipate less quickly? It seems plausible, but would think it would even out with a different area getting a little cooler. But yea, don't see how that would cause the earth to warm overall. Also, I assume wind turbines cause some emissions during manufacturing. Not sure going gang busters and making a ton to power bitcoin mining would be great for the planet.
    - pcthrowaway 6y ago
      > Also, I assume wind turbines cause some emissions during manufacturing. Not sure going gang busters and making a ton to power bitcoin mining would be great for the planet. Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. If we're building wind turbines to replace energy usage that serves a purpose, that's wonderful! Building new infrastructure for energy production so that we can pass it to a bunch of computers that piss it away is still wasteful. Even if it's less wasteful than burning coal to power those computers. Bitcoin and proof-of-work were revolutionary, but now that we have better cryptocurrency technology, we should be moving away from it.
  - pcthrowaway 6y ago
    Since I'm getting downvoted, here's a study on it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511830446X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511... Your misunderstanding seems possibly intentional. I'm very much in favour of renewable energy as an alternative to nonrenewable energy. I'm just not in favour of wasting energy for very little purpose. Build solar/wind energy to replace fossil fuels? Great! Obviously I'm in favour of that. Built an insane amount of infrastructure for producing renewable energy so that we can piss it away? That seems incredibly wasteful! Even if renewable energy is much better, there are still externalities to producing energy.
    - caf 6y ago
- agravier 6y ago
  Also, the propellers get used quickly and are not recyclable AFAIK.
  - agravier 6y ago
    I would like justification for the downvotes please. Thanks.
    - agravier 6y ago
      OK, so here is my source anyway: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turb... I'll refrain from commenting on environmental issues in the future, it's just some sort of shit-flinging contest.
      - bostonsre 6y ago
        I don't see why anyone would down vote a simple fact. Almost all issues have pros and cons, even popular ideas like wind turbines. Seems silly and tribal to down vote like that.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    It's infrastructure that lasts 20 years, not a plastic cup containing yogurt that gets thrown away within 3 days.
- fy20 6y ago
  The impact of a wind farm is going to be very minimal compared to the waste heat generated by fossil fuel power plants. In my country (thanks to the Soviets!) a lot of the waste heat from electricity generation is captured and used to heat homes in nearby cities. One of the largest natural gas plants has a electricity output of 1800MW and a heat output of 5800MW - yet they still needed to build a massive artificial lake to provide additional cooling capacity.
legohead 6y ago
Simpler: ban banks and credit card companies from dealing with anything related to cryptocurrency
- colordrops 6y ago
  What about proof of stake or off chain transactions
- doomroot 6y ago
  That sounds rather rash.
  - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
    I thought bitcoin wanted to be outside of the traditional banking system? Or are bitcoin fans afraid they won't be able to easily get suckers to pump the coins sky high without the fiat (but mostly unbacked tethers) flowing in?
    - afc 6y ago
      I was reading a few of your comments in this thread and just figured I'd point out, as candidly as I can, that you come across as extremely biased against cryptocurrencies, using very manipulative language to advance your position (e.g., anyone who disagrees with you is "part of the circle jerk", Bitcoin fans want to "get suckers to pump the coins sky high", Bitcoin "is a symptom of human greed that must be put in check", etc.). Would you say that your goal is to advance these discussions towards the truth (i.e., to make insightful comments that may be useful)? I'm left with a strong impression that it is, rather, to advance one political position/agenda (cryptocurrencies are evil) as strongly as you can, which is neither intellectually honest nor particularly useful.
      - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
        Your assumption about me is correct. I am extremely biased against cryptocurrencies. And that's bad how? Do you have a sizable position in these instruments that you are afraid would be affected by my dialogue? And my point about circle jerks is prevalent all over social media. Open your eyes man. The Winklevoss Twins, Jack @ Twitter, Elon Musk. All of them have a vested interest in abusing their influence to push this non-productive asset to new heights, so they can then promote the greater fool theory with impressive effects. These folks, and countless others, are only interested in becoming the new 1% off the backs of others. That's not a great look.

by xvilka 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pcthrowaway 6y ago

I'm wondering if 'carbon-neutral' energy production is really environmentally neutral, especially when channeled to cryptocurrency mining. Take wind turbines: they've found that harvesting wind actually increases the temperature in an area. Do enough of this, coupled with channeling the energy into heat-producing machines, are we sure this isn't gong to contribute to global warming at scale? Not to mention the harm to avian wildlife, as the turbines kill 5 birds per year each on average. Next you have the externalized costs of building the infrastructure. Producing the wind turbines, the power plant, and the GPUs. Is all of that really getting offset? I'm very optimistic about the potential for cryptocurrency to change the world, but I'd like that to be for the better. And when we have emerging proof-of-stake platforms that have much less of an impact on the planet because they don't by design rely on energetically inefficient ways to secure their networks, I really don't understand how we can argue that proof-of-work cryptocurrencies have any place in the future.

seoaeu 6y ago
> Take wind turbines: they've found that harvesting wind actually increases the temperature in an area. Do enough of this, coupled with channeling the energy into heat-producing machines, are we sure this isn't gong to contribute to global warming at scale? That's some anti-renewable energy FUD I hadn't seen before... Yes, we're sure that won't cause global warming. Wind turbine operation doesn't produce greenhouse gases or meaningful change the Earth's albedo.
- bostonsre 6y ago
  I guess if we theoretically had enough wind turbines, climates could start being impacted due to winds being slowed down but not exactly sure if that would heat the earth more or not. Could an area with lots of turbines have slower wind speeds and have heat dissipate less quickly? It seems plausible, but would think it would even out with a different area getting a little cooler. But yea, don't see how that would cause the earth to warm overall. Also, I assume wind turbines cause some emissions during manufacturing. Not sure going gang busters and making a ton to power bitcoin mining would be great for the planet.
  - pcthrowaway 6y ago
    > Also, I assume wind turbines cause some emissions during manufacturing. Not sure going gang busters and making a ton to power bitcoin mining would be great for the planet. Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. If we're building wind turbines to replace energy usage that serves a purpose, that's wonderful! Building new infrastructure for energy production so that we can pass it to a bunch of computers that piss it away is still wasteful. Even if it's less wasteful than burning coal to power those computers. Bitcoin and proof-of-work were revolutionary, but now that we have better cryptocurrency technology, we should be moving away from it.
- pcthrowaway 6y ago
  Since I'm getting downvoted, here's a study on it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511830446X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254243511... Your misunderstanding seems possibly intentional. I'm very much in favour of renewable energy as an alternative to nonrenewable energy. I'm just not in favour of wasting energy for very little purpose. Build solar/wind energy to replace fossil fuels? Great! Obviously I'm in favour of that. Built an insane amount of infrastructure for producing renewable energy so that we can piss it away? That seems incredibly wasteful! Even if renewable energy is much better, there are still externalities to producing energy.
  - caf 6y ago
agravier 6y ago
Also, the propellers get used quickly and are not recyclable AFAIK.
- agravier 6y ago
  I would like justification for the downvotes please. Thanks.
  - agravier 6y ago
    OK, so here is my source anyway: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turb... I'll refrain from commenting on environmental issues in the future, it's just some sort of shit-flinging contest.
    - bostonsre 6y ago
      I don't see why anyone would down vote a simple fact. Almost all issues have pros and cons, even popular ideas like wind turbines. Seems silly and tribal to down vote like that.
- imtringued 6y ago
  It's infrastructure that lasts 20 years, not a plastic cup containing yogurt that gets thrown away within 3 days.
fy20 6y ago
The impact of a wind farm is going to be very minimal compared to the waste heat generated by fossil fuel power plants. In my country (thanks to the Soviets!) a lot of the waste heat from electricity generation is captured and used to heat homes in nearby cities. One of the largest natural gas plants has a electricity output of 1800MW and a heat output of 5800MW - yet they still needed to build a massive artificial lake to provide additional cooling capacity.

legohead 6y ago

Simpler: ban banks and credit card companies from dealing with anything related to cryptocurrency

colordrops 6y ago
What about proof of stake or off chain transactions
doomroot 6y ago
That sounds rather rash.
- SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
  I thought bitcoin wanted to be outside of the traditional banking system? Or are bitcoin fans afraid they won't be able to easily get suckers to pump the coins sky high without the fiat (but mostly unbacked tethers) flowing in?
  - afc 6y ago
    I was reading a few of your comments in this thread and just figured I'd point out, as candidly as I can, that you come across as extremely biased against cryptocurrencies, using very manipulative language to advance your position (e.g., anyone who disagrees with you is "part of the circle jerk", Bitcoin fans want to "get suckers to pump the coins sky high", Bitcoin "is a symptom of human greed that must be put in check", etc.). Would you say that your goal is to advance these discussions towards the truth (i.e., to make insightful comments that may be useful)? I'm left with a strong impression that it is, rather, to advance one political position/agenda (cryptocurrencies are evil) as strongly as you can, which is neither intellectually honest nor particularly useful.
    - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
      Your assumption about me is correct. I am extremely biased against cryptocurrencies. And that's bad how? Do you have a sizable position in these instruments that you are afraid would be affected by my dialogue? And my point about circle jerks is prevalent all over social media. Open your eyes man. The Winklevoss Twins, Jack @ Twitter, Elon Musk. All of them have a vested interest in abusing their influence to push this non-productive asset to new heights, so they can then promote the greater fool theory with impressive effects. These folks, and countless others, are only interested in becoming the new 1% off the backs of others. That's not a great look.