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France cuts two nuclear-powered submarines in half to make one new one
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tasogare 6y agoPerfect example of System D. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_D https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_D
- gremlinsinc 6y agoSo basically the first successful front/back submarine transplant? tldr: They basically "stitched" one half of another decommissioned sub to this one to salvage it.
- MayeulC 6y agoNot really the first, as explained in the article, though this one seems bigger in scope. As for success... let's wait and see :)
- gregoriol 6y agoI'm still amazed by this decision that dates from last year, and wondering why not re-use the full Saphir: if part of it is re-usable like this, why not use the full of it instead of cutting it and trying a challenging engineering repair of the damaged one.
- gostsamo 6y agoMaybe because the back of the decommissioned submarine was not fit to work as well.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- bserge 6y agoThat might be harder/more expensive if it was decommissioned because of reactor/propulsion/other critical systems in the back.
- wazoox 6y agoI'm pretty sure it's because of the nuclear reactor which is in the rear half. The Perle's reactor has still some years to go, and it's much simpler and safer to simply weld the half containing the reactor, instead of trying to pry it open and move a live nuclear reactor from a boat to the other one.
- astura 6y agoRefueling a nuclear reactor on a submarine is very, very expensive. The Saphir obviously would need refueling to be put back in service, costing lots of money. If the Perle was recently refueled and the back part is where the reactor is, then it would almost certainly be cheaper to repair the Perle instead of refuel the reactor on the Saphir.
- jabl 6y agoFrench submarines are a bit different from, say, US or British ones. They are refueled at 10 year intervals, and designed accordingly (e.g. there's a big hatch above the reactor which can be removed for the refueling), and they use LEU fuel produced in an enrichment facility that also produces civilian nuclear fuel.
- hadrien01 6y agoHere's a photo of the two cut halves: https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/210414041423-perle-saphir-exlarge-169.jpg https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/210414041423-perle-sa...
- Sparkyte 6y agoI was going to say, not the onion.
- danboarder 6y agoThis story reminded me of a project my father did with two 1965 Mercedes sedans; one was hit in the front, the other in the back. He cut them both in half where the roof meets the rear window, and welded and reassembled the two good halves into a perfectly functional car that we drove for years. Not the scale of the French submarine project, but the same kind of ingenuity -- it was still a big project to get everything rewired and all put back together, including bodywork and paint!
- bloak 6y agoThat sounds like the notorious "cut and shut" thing where criminals create a dangerous vehicle for the second-hand market, except that it's from a different era. Seeing as a 1965 Mercedes is built rather differently from a typical modern car, and safety standards have changed since then, too ... any comments on how hard it is to this without compromising safety?
- bunje 6y agoI would guess that it is much more dangerous to modify a modern car because they utilize nontrivial shell geometry to improve the rigidity or to reduce weight. When I was attending driving lessons, my teacher claimed that the specific shape of the windscreen or rear window was a very important safety feature in the scenario that the car rolls over.
- TravelPiglet 6y agoNot to mention crumple zones and how the car is intended to protect the people inside
- jacquesm 6y agoThose are typically outside of the safety cell.
- sgt101 6y agoThe big one is the A pillar on the front. This tends to corrode over time and is often why cars are written off. If it is corroded then the structural integrity of the car is compromised. There is really no repair for it - but a bit of welding can disguise things and get a write off sold as a potential project. The new owner can find out when they take the wings off... or they can find out when the front of the car comes off in the event of a shunt, but in that scenario they only find out very briefly.
- WJW 6y agoInterestingly ships get cut in half and reassembled "all the time". Certainly way more than people think. See for example https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/photos-fincantieri-begins-first-ever-cruise-ship-lengthening https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/photos-fincantier..., where an entire cruise ship was cut in half and an extra section was inserted into the middle before welding everything together again. I will also never forget the training ship of the Dutch Navy, which was shortened by cutting it into half and removing a section from the middle. Sadly this messed up the hydrodynamics fiercely and it was extremely seasickness inducing in even moderate seas. The ship certainly was effective as a training vessel though.
- nightfly 6y ago> With demand soaring, many cruise shipbuilders are booked into the early 2020s... That didn't work out so well for them.
- wongarsu 6y agoCruise lines seem to have survived just fine and are starting operations back up (for vaccinated passengers). And if you believe that all publicity is good publicity they should have no problems filling those ships
- lifeisstillgood 6y agoThis is turning out to be an interesting business model - there are obviously the "pay us and we keep your money, but keep offering you future cruises till the pandemic is over" Additionally they are now offering "single country cruises" - start in one country, sail from port to port in same country - which radically simplified the vaccination
- thrower123 6y agoIt'd be nice if the US would ditch it's statutes from the late 19th century that make it illegal for foreign-flagged vessels from taking passengers from one US port to another. This is why, for example, almost all Alaskan cruises sail from Vancouver.
- Borrible 6y agoIn shipbuilding, it's not that unusual to rebuild an entire ship. Of course, modern ships are modular. I suppose with submarines, compartmentalization is a structural given anyway. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QirVr-pEVU4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QirVr-pEVU4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OEuHPE_cLSI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OEuHPE_cLSI
- Ichthypresbyter 6y agoThe new boat will apparently still be called Perle, though Royal Navy precedent would have it be called Sarle, or perhaps Pephir... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Zubian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Zubian
- red369 6y agoI like when the naming convention is consistent with the front half of the name going with the front half of the object, so the Zubian must have the front half of the Zulu...or the Sileighty must have the front of a Nissan Silvia (and the rear of a 180SX)
- luplex 6y agoI wonder how they will name the frankensub. Saphle or Perir?
- superzamp 6y agoHa, Périr meaning "to die" in french I hope they'll go for Saphle!
- mattowen_uk 6y agoI see what you did there, however they are keeping the name of the back half: Perle.
- teel 6y agoReminds me of Finnish "Frankenhornet"; they attached the forward-section of Canadian F-18 to their own damaged F-18. Unfortunately the thing crashed during test flight after the modification.
- i_am_proteus 6y agoThis has happened before. After USS San Francisco collided with a seamount, her bow section was replaced with that of USS Honolulu, which was being decommissioned.[0] These things make economic sense because nuclear refueling is a capital cost, and navies are loathe to waste a submarine reactor that has a decade or more worth of fuel left. [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)
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- Andrew_nenakhov 6y agoNow we have experimentally established the half-life of French nuclear-powered submarines.
- aaron695 6y agoAustralia is doing cutting edge stuff working with France converting nuclear submarines into diesel - https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/10/australias-looming-submarine-disaster/ https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/10/australias-loomi...
- abraae 6y agoSurprised that Scott Morrison's government didn't elect to use coal, given their denialist tendencies.
- nixass 6y agoPush me - Pull you
- astura 6y agoSuper common to do stuff like this, when the USS San Francisco struck a sea mount (killing 1) she was repaired by replacing her bow with the bow of the soon-to-be-decommed USS Honolulu. >In June 2006, it was announced that San Francisco's bow section would be replaced at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard with the bow of USS Honolulu, which was soon to be retired. San Francisco is four years older than Honolulu, but she had been refueled and upgraded in 2000–2002. The cost of her bow replacement has been estimated at $79 million, as compared with the estimated $170 million to refuel and overhaul the nuclear reactor of Honolulu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711) It's also common to cut cruise ships in half and add to the middle to make them bigger https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-04/why-cruise-lines-keep-cutting-their-ships-in-half-for-stretching https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-04/why-cruis... Of course, now that I read the article they actually mentioned the San Francisco.
- corentin88 6y agoIf you want to see more photos of the work: https://2rqr3rwveady2kt4ixbo2lghi4-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-meretmarine-com.translate.goog/fr/content/perle-0 https://2rqr3rwveady2kt4ixbo2lghi4-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-meret...
- maeln 6y agoThe link without the google translate thing: https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/perle-0 https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/perle-0 Btw, mer et marine is probably one of the best media if you are looking for french news relative to the maritime defense industry and the maritime industry in general.
- Ikatza 6y agoThey'll keep the name, but is it still the Perle? It's a modern "ship of Theseus" situation
- goatinaboat 6y agoThey'll keep the name, but is it still the Perle? It's a modern "ship of Theseus" situation It's the Perle if the crew believe it to be the Perle. That's how ships - or regiments, or squadrons - become "living things" almost.
- sn_master 6y agoMeanwhile, Britain has retired twenty nuclear submarines since 1980. None have been disposed of, and nine still contain radioactive fuel in their reactors. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/royal-navy-having-real-trouble-disposing-its-old-nuclear-submarines-98017 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/royal-navy-having-rea...
- realreality 6y agoWhy does France need six nuclear powered submarines?
- nullserver 6y agoAsk people from Ukraine.
- ceejayoz 6y agoNo land-based ICBMs, and nuclear armed aircraft aren't a great deterrent these days, especially with the distance France's would have to go to reach a likely adversary. You need a bunch because half of them will be docked (repairs, replenishment, R&R, etc.) at any particular time, and having just one at sea risks an adversary taking it out in a first strike.
- icegreentea2 6y agoThe Saphir and Perle are attack submarines - they aren't France's nuclear missile subs (that's the Triomphant class, and they have 4 of them for exactly the reason you described). France "needs" all this equipment because France (or least enough of its governments) have decided that it's important for France to have an independent capability to influence the world beyond "soft power". It's easy to understand why they might want an independent SLBM force. And if you're going to be building nuclear submarines, may as well make nuclear attack subs so you can try to keep the knowledge and industry base more continuously active.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- angry_octet 6y agoAs icegreentea2 says, these are attack submarines, not part of the French strategic deterrent. In a surface attack role a nuclear sub has a significant speed and endurance advantage. Conventional subs are can't adjust to course changes in targets very easily; of course, they are quieter and smaller, so choke point ambush becomes more feasible. A nuclear boat also has the speed to keep up with a carrier battle group or a fast convoy. The ability to use SLCM to strike land (MdCN) or maritime targets (Exocet) without obvious forewarning is also useful. Strategic boats are not used for conventional attack because it would reveal their location, and the launch of a ballistic missile could trigger real escalation towards nuclear exchange.
- 75central 6y agoKind of reminds me of the M/V Stewart J. Cort: http://www.interlake-steamship.com/our-fleet/m-v-stewart-j.-cort/ http://www.interlake-steamship.com/our-fleet/m-v-stewart-j.-... The "before" pic is amazing: https://imgur.com/dBydq17 https://imgur.com/dBydq17
- imwillofficial 6y agoThis also happened with the USS San Francisco and USS Honolulu after an underwater mountain strike. Ref: Former US Submariner
- perlgeek 6y agoA great uncle of mine back in Eastern Germany (DDR back then) purchased a decommissioned pleasure boat, but it was longer than 25m so he would have needed a captain's license to operate it. Instead, he cut out a part (most of the aft deck), and welded it together so that it was just below the 25m limit. I joined him for a tour on it once, it was pretty awesome. The proportions looked a bit off, but it was much more spacious inside than typical hobby boats :-) He and his family spent many vacations on that boat, touring much of the big European rivers. Update: found some pictures of it: https://www.ddr-binnenschifffahrt.de/fotogalerie-gross/Passagier/P-064-lenz.JPG https://www.ddr-binnenschifffahrt.de/fotogalerie-gross/Passa... https://www.skipper-bootshandel.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Angelika_Groh22-1024x768.jpg https://www.skipper-bootshandel.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/1...
- jacquesm 6y agoVery well done, I can't spot the seam.
- bathtub365 6y agoIt’s amazing to see what can be done via the application of centuries of Baguette Science
- kingsuper20 6y agoPretty wild. Expense and hassle aside, it makes me wonder how the pressure hulls are fabricated to begin with.
- nikita-leonov 6y agoWhat a waste of material. They cut them in half, they had four halves, they can make two submarines, not one!
- r00fus 6y agoLooks like one of them wasn't deemed seaworthy. > Luckily for the French navy, one of the Perle’s sister boats, the Saphir, which was retired from service in 2019, was awaiting dismantling at a shipyard in the northwestern port of Cherbourg.
- zymhan 6y agoThose silly French, always throwing away perfectly good submarine halves
- atum47 6y agoI cannot stop thinking about flex tape when I read this headline. That's a lot of damage...
- selimnairb 6y agoReminds of the stretched VW bus that a former hippy landlord of mine had. It was made from two buses, the front of one and the back of the other cut off, welded together. It was great for hauling kayaks in the back. I think the two constituent buses were from different years, so the model year of the welded bus was a 1966.5 or something.
- jedc 6y agoThe US did the same thing with the USS San Francisco after it collided with an undersea seamount in 2005 and nearly sank. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)#Collision_with_seamount https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)#Co... "In June 2006, it was announced that San Francisco's bow section would be replaced at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard with the bow of USS Honolulu, which was soon to be retired. San Francisco is four years older than Honolulu, but she had been refueled and upgraded in 2000–2002. The cost of her bow replacement has been estimated at $79 million, as compared with the estimated $170 million to refuel and overhaul the nuclear reactor of Honolulu."
- sigzero 6y agoLook up "Deepwater Coast Guard". That didn't go well.
- angry_octet 6y agoA real life Boat of Theseus.
- paxys 6y agoThis is a wild twist in the Ship of Theseus thought experiment.
- soneca 6y agoSo that’s what nuclear fission is?
- m463 6y agoIsn't there fusion too? (I wonder if the new sub weighs microscopically less than each of the two old subs)