6 ms·

"Given the circumstances, Scientific American has agreed with major news outlets worldwide to start using the term “climate emergency” in its coverage of climat

by clpm4j 6y ago

"Given the circumstances, Scientific American has agreed with major news outlets worldwide to start using the term “climate emergency” in its coverage of climate change." This seems reasonable and appropriate. As much as I want to believe in humanity, I'm not optimistic that we're going to be able to actually solve this before things get really bad.

idownvoted 6y ago
Using a depiction of Cali wildfires which are mostly caused by the state's own forest management policies puts your quote into perspective: Framing.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  The catastrophe would be dramatically different if it weren't because of that. Climate change makes things more catastrophic. It's not dishonest.
- cma 6y ago
  > state's own forest management policies Weren't most burned acres on federal land (managed by executive branch under Trump)?
  - carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
    Yes and no. I wouldn't blame just Trump per se, because forest management policy implementation across jurisdictions moves glacially-slow. There is likely enough blame to go around, such as not clearing fuel around the electrical grid and not setting intentional, controlled clearance fires. https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/11/trump-blames-state-fires-but-many-worst-federal-land/1971196002/ https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/11/trump-blames-s... The most economically-destructive fires are at the Wildland-urban interface (WUI), especially new residential developments that build right up to and in large, dense forested areas. Without proper fire mitigation for houses, infrastructure, and communities, devastating Camp Fire scenarios are entirely possible again.
- carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
  Uh no, not backdoor climate emergency denial. I survived in the 2018 Paradise fire. The main problem there was no rain for 200+ days, coupled with strong, dry winds in a particular direction, and PG&E's 100+-year-old under-maintained, bare powerlines that broke off their ancient fasteners. The reason for the 200+ days of no rain is likely related to both rising average temperatures, breaking record-after-record each year, and the lack of enough Arctic sea ice pack to stabilize the Arctic's jet-stream. Without a stable jet-stream, it breaks off into disjointed loops and also dips down into lower latitudes. This causes havoc and seemingly more random/variable/intense weather in N America. Blizzard in Austin, for example, which never anticipated such an occurrence that far south.
  - listenallyall 6y ago
    > The main problem there No, the main problem there was a neighborhood situated in a highly flammable area in the middle of a forest.
    - carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
      It wasn't a "forest." I lived there for five years. It was islands of tall trees. Nearly all of them were maintained by arborists because of the liability of widowmakers. Our 1/2 acre yard had 7 tall trees and two giant lawns, nothing close to a "forest." The trees were only "highly-flammable" because of the extreme lack of rain drying out the brush acting as kindling and the trees acting as fuel.
      - listenallyall 6y ago
        > It wasn't a "forest" Says you. “People were living in the forest,” he said. https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article249017825.html https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article24901782... “Anybody in their right mind would know that the whole town was a large oak forest, and everybody was at risk,” Scherer said. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-camp-fire-deathtrap-20181230-story.html%3f_amp=true https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/local/californi...
marshmallow_12 6y ago
Probably the worst possible damage a person can do to the enviroment is to have children. Everything else is basically just a drop (of pollution) in the ocean. I have my own opinions here, which i won't say, but i'm just addressing the elephant in the news.
- seriousquestion 6y ago
  If we end up with an upside down population pyramid, we'll have bigger problems than a slowly changing climate.
  - corty 6y ago
    There are some countries with an upside down population pyramid and it isn't the end of the world. Certainly less apocalyptic than most climate change scenarios.
    - carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
      Well, it doesn't scale for the future tax vs. elder social benefits. You can't just sweep the consequences of extreme population demographic shifts under a rug. Look at China with its disastrous One-child policy where there are millions of unhappy, dissatisfied men who can't marry. That's a recipe for social unrest and suicide attacks.
      - corty 6y ago
        Look at Japan, there things got more stable with the aging of the population. China isn't really an example for most of the world because CCP experiments screwed up more than just their age pyramid. Also, taxes and pensions are very small problems compared to uninhabitable coastal regions, mass migrations and food shortages that climate change predictions show us.
        carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
        Taxes and pensions are pressing, immediate problems within the next 50 years. What you're talking about is a much bigger problem trend, but it will take longer to occur, say 80-120 years. Age pyramid? That's not the biggest issue in China's demographics: it's the sex ratio. Talking vague FUD about China isn't helpful and doesn't contribute to this discussion. Mass migrations and food shortages are happening now, but not as bad as they will be. This is due to both climate and US Monroe doctrine meddling (crime caused by the War on Drugs and installation of right-wing leaders with death squads).
pmastela 6y ago
I feel the same. The coronavirus pandemic pandemic felt like the final nail in the coffin of my optimism. Humanity’s collective response or lack thereof was on full display and if that was the best we could do when faced with an immediate and dire threat to our way of life then I’m in need of serious convincing that something like the climate crisis which is already here and quantifiably guaranteed [1] to occur in the future as we can’t simply reverse the process on a dime like we did with a vaccine when it came to the virus. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/climate/climate-change-future.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/climate/climate-change-fu... > That price — more vicious heat waves, longer wildfire seasons, rising sea levels — is now irretrievably baked in. Nations, including the United States, have dithered so long in cutting emissions that progressively more global warming is assured for decades to come, even if efforts to shift away from fossil fuels were accelerated tomorrow.
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  To be fair, the response in South East Asia was considerably better and more collective-minded than what any European or North American state achieved. Which still doesn't bode super well for a coordinated global response to the climate emergency. But it does point to which areas of the world are likely to manage the best while the rest of us descend into chaos and anarchy.
  - pmastela 6y ago
    Agreed, there were bright spots, one of them was South East Asia. Perhaps the people there will manage better but that's all they'll be able to do is manage and not prosper. Rising sea levels won't spare those that manage to muster up a better response.
    - mikepurvis 6y ago
      Sure it will. I mean, coastal cities will flood regardless, but the nations which understand what's going on and get a head start on a compassionate, equitable approach to relocation will fare much better than those which prize rugged individualism and react to a climate refugee crisis with victim-blaming.

by clpm4j 6y ago

idownvoted 6y ago

Using a depiction of Cali wildfires which are mostly caused by the state's own forest management policies puts your quote into perspective: Framing.

Daishiman 6y ago
The catastrophe would be dramatically different if it weren't because of that. Climate change makes things more catastrophic. It's not dishonest.
cma 6y ago
> state's own forest management policies Weren't most burned acres on federal land (managed by executive branch under Trump)?
- carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
  Yes and no. I wouldn't blame just Trump per se, because forest management policy implementation across jurisdictions moves glacially-slow. There is likely enough blame to go around, such as not clearing fuel around the electrical grid and not setting intentional, controlled clearance fires. https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/11/trump-blames-state-fires-but-many-worst-federal-land/1971196002/ https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/11/trump-blames-s... The most economically-destructive fires are at the Wildland-urban interface (WUI), especially new residential developments that build right up to and in large, dense forested areas. Without proper fire mitigation for houses, infrastructure, and communities, devastating Camp Fire scenarios are entirely possible again.
carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
Uh no, not backdoor climate emergency denial. I survived in the 2018 Paradise fire. The main problem there was no rain for 200+ days, coupled with strong, dry winds in a particular direction, and PG&E's 100+-year-old under-maintained, bare powerlines that broke off their ancient fasteners. The reason for the 200+ days of no rain is likely related to both rising average temperatures, breaking record-after-record each year, and the lack of enough Arctic sea ice pack to stabilize the Arctic's jet-stream. Without a stable jet-stream, it breaks off into disjointed loops and also dips down into lower latitudes. This causes havoc and seemingly more random/variable/intense weather in N America. Blizzard in Austin, for example, which never anticipated such an occurrence that far south.
- listenallyall 6y ago
  > The main problem there No, the main problem there was a neighborhood situated in a highly flammable area in the middle of a forest.
  - carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
    It wasn't a "forest." I lived there for five years. It was islands of tall trees. Nearly all of them were maintained by arborists because of the liability of widowmakers. Our 1/2 acre yard had 7 tall trees and two giant lawns, nothing close to a "forest." The trees were only "highly-flammable" because of the extreme lack of rain drying out the brush acting as kindling and the trees acting as fuel.
    - listenallyall 6y ago
      > It wasn't a "forest" Says you. “People were living in the forest,” he said. https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article249017825.html https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article24901782... “Anybody in their right mind would know that the whole town was a large oak forest, and everybody was at risk,” Scherer said. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-camp-fire-deathtrap-20181230-story.html%3f_amp=true https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/local/californi...

marshmallow_12 6y ago

Probably the worst possible damage a person can do to the enviroment is to have children. Everything else is basically just a drop (of pollution) in the ocean. I have my own opinions here, which i won't say, but i'm just addressing the elephant in the news.

seriousquestion 6y ago
If we end up with an upside down population pyramid, we'll have bigger problems than a slowly changing climate.
- corty 6y ago
  There are some countries with an upside down population pyramid and it isn't the end of the world. Certainly less apocalyptic than most climate change scenarios.
  - carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
    Well, it doesn't scale for the future tax vs. elder social benefits. You can't just sweep the consequences of extreme population demographic shifts under a rug. Look at China with its disastrous One-child policy where there are millions of unhappy, dissatisfied men who can't marry. That's a recipe for social unrest and suicide attacks.
    - corty 6y ago
      Look at Japan, there things got more stable with the aging of the population. China isn't really an example for most of the world because CCP experiments screwed up more than just their age pyramid. Also, taxes and pensions are very small problems compared to uninhabitable coastal regions, mass migrations and food shortages that climate change predictions show us.
      - carpedimebagjoe 6y ago
        Taxes and pensions are pressing, immediate problems within the next 50 years. What you're talking about is a much bigger problem trend, but it will take longer to occur, say 80-120 years. Age pyramid? That's not the biggest issue in China's demographics: it's the sex ratio. Talking vague FUD about China isn't helpful and doesn't contribute to this discussion. Mass migrations and food shortages are happening now, but not as bad as they will be. This is due to both climate and US Monroe doctrine meddling (crime caused by the War on Drugs and installation of right-wing leaders with death squads).

pmastela 6y ago

I feel the same. The coronavirus pandemic pandemic felt like the final nail in the coffin of my optimism. Humanity’s collective response or lack thereof was on full display and if that was the best we could do when faced with an immediate and dire threat to our way of life then I’m in need of serious convincing that something like the climate crisis which is already here and quantifiably guaranteed [1] to occur in the future as we can’t simply reverse the process on a dime like we did with a vaccine when it came to the virus. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/climate/climate-change-future.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/climate/climate-change-fu... > That price — more vicious heat waves, longer wildfire seasons, rising sea levels — is now irretrievably baked in. Nations, including the United States, have dithered so long in cutting emissions that progressively more global warming is assured for decades to come, even if efforts to shift away from fossil fuels were accelerated tomorrow.

mikepurvis 6y ago
To be fair, the response in South East Asia was considerably better and more collective-minded than what any European or North American state achieved. Which still doesn't bode super well for a coordinated global response to the climate emergency. But it does point to which areas of the world are likely to manage the best while the rest of us descend into chaos and anarchy.
- pmastela 6y ago
  Agreed, there were bright spots, one of them was South East Asia. Perhaps the people there will manage better but that's all they'll be able to do is manage and not prosper. Rising sea levels won't spare those that manage to muster up a better response.
  - mikepurvis 6y ago
    Sure it will. I mean, coastal cities will flood regardless, but the nations which understand what's going on and get a head start on a compassionate, equitable approach to relocation will fare much better than those which prize rugged individualism and react to a climate refugee crisis with victim-blaming.