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Should HN automatically post the suicide prevention lines on posts that mention suicide and have a certain number of votes? I feel like it should.

OldManAndTheCpp 6y ago
Does that have any effect on reducing suicide rates?
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  In this climate if it saves just one life it's worth it.
  - Kinrany 6y ago
    In what climate wouldn't it be? But we don't know if it does. It sounds like a kind of thing that does almost nothing on its own and becomes irrelevant the moment a halfway decent solution is found.
    - neetle 6y ago
      You're right that if we do find something that makes it irrelevant, it won't be needed. Let's not make perfect the enemy of good here though - it's a mild preventative that actually may help someone at risk. There have been studies that show that even _reporting_ on suicide can cause an uptick of rates without the proper precautions. If it doesn't impact you, great. If it helps pull someone else off the edge though, it's worth it.
    - ketamine__ 6y ago
      Cars kill people. We don't pull them off the road to save a life.
vmception 6y ago
Why do you feel that way? I don’t have any context on your worldview and don’t really understand that meme. What does suicide prevention copypasta actually do, what does it hope to accomplish, is there any quantitative study on the efficacy, and do people even want data as opposed to a feeling?
- ketanmaheshwari 6y ago
  It was a spontaneous thought that came to mind when I saw this post. I am not aware of any such research but know that search engines do it automatically and people do on Reddit posts that are related to this topic.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    You could post the links yourself and let the hivemind decide.
- rhcom2 6y ago
  It's part of the guidelines put together for the media based on studies for reporting about suicide to include resources. > Provide information on warning signs of suicide risk as well as hotline and treatment resources. At a minimum, include the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline and Crisis Text Line (listed below) or local crisis phone numbers. https://reportingonsuicide.org/ https://reportingonsuicide.org/ I don't think I would expect this from a scientific paper but it doesn't seem inappropriate for HN.
- newacct583 6y ago
  Serious answer: suicidal ideation is MUCH more common than almost anyone realizes, and it correlates with news about other suicides more than we'd like to admit. Making sure that people who would be otherwise encouraged in that direction have access to help at the sites doing the inducement is mostly just common sense. Can I flip this around? Why did you feel compelled to post that, in particular the last clause ("data as opposed to a feeling") which seems surprisingly dismissive of a position on a subject that by your own admission you lack expertise with? I'll be honest: that looks like anti-woke virtue signalling if I ever saw it.
carabiner 6y ago
Please don't. Posting the suicide hotlines does not make you a hero.
pizza 6y ago
imo no, it's a trite gesture that I can't help but feel is robotic and lacking in human warmth..
- addicted 6y ago
  Just because something is robotic does not mean it can't be of immense help to people in that moment. Very trivial nudges have been known to help people who have had suicidal thoughts and prevented them from committing actions.
emodendroket 6y ago
Do you think anyone has ever been helped by such a thing? I'm highly skeptical.
- enkid 6y ago
  Why are you skeptical? Having the resources prominent immediately after someone is thinking about suicide based on external stimulus seems like it could help someone, and even if it only helps one person, that seems like it would be worth it to me.
  - emodendroket 6y ago
    Frankly I'm skeptical that suicide hotlines are an effective tool, and then on top of that it would have to be the case that sticking the link underneath an article makes people more likely to call it and benefit from it.
- kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 6y ago
  What harm does it do, materially, to post suicide prevention links?
  - emodendroket 6y ago
    What harm would it do to post some Bible passages under such posts? That might help someone. If we’re just doing everything that might help and wouldn’t seem to hurt.
ekianjo 6y ago
> suicide prevention lines on posts that mention suicide Is there any evidence that such support lines actually help prevent suicide?
- TeeMassive 6y ago
  Found this article: https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/how-does-a-suicide-prevention-hotline-prevent-suicide https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/how-does-a-suicide-prev... "It is difficult to gather strict evidence about the effectiveness of suicide prevention hotlines, but Dr. Madelyn Gould of Columbia University found that of Lifeline callers: 12% of suicidal callers said that talking to someone at Lifeline prevented them from harming or killing themselves Almost 50% followed through with a counselor's referral to seek emergency services or contacted mental health services About 80% said that Lifeline had something to do with keeping them alive"
- neetle 6y ago
  Not a ton, but initial studies do seem to suggest they push people from "executing on a plan with the means to do so" to not. Some recent meta-analysis I read seemed to indicate there needs to be more research done, but it's not something you really want to A/B test.
  - 1123581321 6y ago
    If I don’t ask this well, please be kind. Are you saying there is evidence hotlines back people off of dangerous levels of intent, or that there is evidence they play some role in dismantling the means—convincing to remove weapons and pills, for example, so that the strong suicidal desire is less likely to lead to action? Either way it’s good news.
    - neetle 6y ago
      From my initial readings I _believe_ it's the backing out of intent. "Making action plans" and "provision of referrals" has also been mentioned so it could be both! I'm only looking at the lit reviews at the moment though. In my experience, the "talking off the ledge" was always the most important part in the moment. I found that the follow up from someone who knows what they're doing helped keep me away from the ledge too. I feel like a lot more work could be done in this area, but I'm not in psych and I wouldn't know where to contribute.

OldManAndTheCpp 6y ago

Does that have any effect on reducing suicide rates?

ketamine__ 6y ago
In this climate if it saves just one life it's worth it.
- Kinrany 6y ago
  In what climate wouldn't it be? But we don't know if it does. It sounds like a kind of thing that does almost nothing on its own and becomes irrelevant the moment a halfway decent solution is found.
  - neetle 6y ago
    You're right that if we do find something that makes it irrelevant, it won't be needed. Let's not make perfect the enemy of good here though - it's a mild preventative that actually may help someone at risk. There have been studies that show that even _reporting_ on suicide can cause an uptick of rates without the proper precautions. If it doesn't impact you, great. If it helps pull someone else off the edge though, it's worth it.
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    Cars kill people. We don't pull them off the road to save a life.

vmception 6y ago

Why do you feel that way? I don’t have any context on your worldview and don’t really understand that meme. What does suicide prevention copypasta actually do, what does it hope to accomplish, is there any quantitative study on the efficacy, and do people even want data as opposed to a feeling?

ketanmaheshwari 6y ago
It was a spontaneous thought that came to mind when I saw this post. I am not aware of any such research but know that search engines do it automatically and people do on Reddit posts that are related to this topic.
- mulmen 6y ago
  You could post the links yourself and let the hivemind decide.
rhcom2 6y ago
It's part of the guidelines put together for the media based on studies for reporting about suicide to include resources. > Provide information on warning signs of suicide risk as well as hotline and treatment resources. At a minimum, include the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline and Crisis Text Line (listed below) or local crisis phone numbers. https://reportingonsuicide.org/ https://reportingonsuicide.org/ I don't think I would expect this from a scientific paper but it doesn't seem inappropriate for HN.
newacct583 6y ago
Serious answer: suicidal ideation is MUCH more common than almost anyone realizes, and it correlates with news about other suicides more than we'd like to admit. Making sure that people who would be otherwise encouraged in that direction have access to help at the sites doing the inducement is mostly just common sense. Can I flip this around? Why did you feel compelled to post that, in particular the last clause ("data as opposed to a feeling") which seems surprisingly dismissive of a position on a subject that by your own admission you lack expertise with? I'll be honest: that looks like anti-woke virtue signalling if I ever saw it.

carabiner 6y ago

Please don't. Posting the suicide hotlines does not make you a hero.

pizza 6y ago

imo no, it's a trite gesture that I can't help but feel is robotic and lacking in human warmth..

addicted 6y ago
Just because something is robotic does not mean it can't be of immense help to people in that moment. Very trivial nudges have been known to help people who have had suicidal thoughts and prevented them from committing actions.

emodendroket 6y ago

Do you think anyone has ever been helped by such a thing? I'm highly skeptical.

enkid 6y ago
Why are you skeptical? Having the resources prominent immediately after someone is thinking about suicide based on external stimulus seems like it could help someone, and even if it only helps one person, that seems like it would be worth it to me.
- emodendroket 6y ago
  Frankly I'm skeptical that suicide hotlines are an effective tool, and then on top of that it would have to be the case that sticking the link underneath an article makes people more likely to call it and benefit from it.
kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 6y ago
What harm does it do, materially, to post suicide prevention links?
- emodendroket 6y ago
  What harm would it do to post some Bible passages under such posts? That might help someone. If we’re just doing everything that might help and wouldn’t seem to hurt.

ekianjo 6y ago

> suicide prevention lines on posts that mention suicide Is there any evidence that such support lines actually help prevent suicide?

TeeMassive 6y ago
Found this article: https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/how-does-a-suicide-prevention-hotline-prevent-suicide https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/how-does-a-suicide-prev... "It is difficult to gather strict evidence about the effectiveness of suicide prevention hotlines, but Dr. Madelyn Gould of Columbia University found that of Lifeline callers: 12% of suicidal callers said that talking to someone at Lifeline prevented them from harming or killing themselves Almost 50% followed through with a counselor's referral to seek emergency services or contacted mental health services About 80% said that Lifeline had something to do with keeping them alive"
neetle 6y ago
Not a ton, but initial studies do seem to suggest they push people from "executing on a plan with the means to do so" to not. Some recent meta-analysis I read seemed to indicate there needs to be more research done, but it's not something you really want to A/B test.
- 1123581321 6y ago
  If I don’t ask this well, please be kind. Are you saying there is evidence hotlines back people off of dangerous levels of intent, or that there is evidence they play some role in dismantling the means—convincing to remove weapons and pills, for example, so that the strong suicidal desire is less likely to lead to action? Either way it’s good news.
  - neetle 6y ago
    From my initial readings I _believe_ it's the backing out of intent. "Making action plans" and "provision of referrals" has also been mentioned so it could be both! I'm only looking at the lit reviews at the moment though. In my experience, the "talking off the ledge" was always the most important part in the moment. I found that the follow up from someone who knows what they're doing helped keep me away from the ledge too. I feel like a lot more work could be done in this area, but I'm not in psych and I wouldn't know where to contribute.