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When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
- sheikheddy 5y agoKeep in mind that if you're travelling internationally you'll still have to abide by local rules on what vaccinated people can and cannot do. In Canada, for instance, you have to take PCR tests before and after your flight, self quarantine for 14 days with an additional PCR test on day 10. The first three days of your quarantine will be spent in a government-approved hotel booked for CDN 2000 (~1600 USD). They don't care about whether you've already recovered from covid (it might exempt you from the hotel stay, but not the self-quarantine), or whether you've tested negative, or whether you're fully vaccinated.
- tinyhouse 5y agoMadness. The main people who get screwed by this are Canadian citizens/residents. Everyone else would do fine without visiting Canada. (I know such rules are precisely for preventing people from visiting Canada, and I'm sure it's working...). I hope countries will change such policies for vaccinated people soon.
- grecy 5y agoCanada is currently struggling badly with a massive third wave. Cases are higher now than they've ever been, so these requirements are the opposite of madness. Also note the only people that can come into Canada right now are citizens and residents. It's closed to foreigners.[1] [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/travel-restrictions-exemptions.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
- tinyhouse 5y agoI have no problem with closing to foreigners. Having a 3rd wave shouldn't really matter. In the list of priorities, a quarantine to fully vaccinated people with negative covid test before and after the flight, should be at the bottom of the list. (assuming the vaccine is approved by the Canadian FDA or whatever they follow in Canada). According to the OP, they require 14 days quarantine including 3 days at an expensive hotel? I mean, seriously WTF... If they said 3 days quarantine at home followed by a negative test then I would say OK. But what the OP is describing is madness. No other word for it.
- novok 5y agoThe point is to put a financial penalty to Canadians traveling internationally without actually putting a restriction on travel, since it's against the Canadian charter and would be difficult politically to do so. As to why they put in the hotel requirement, it was in response to political controversy. It's not organized well and you can actually skip it if you come in by land or just pay a cheaper $700 fine walk past the hotel counter in the airport so I've heard. The rest of the requirements have been there since the start and haven't been updated probably because barely anyone has been properly vaccinated in canada yet, and non-resident citizens can't vote.
- ipaddr 5y agoThey could stop it at the airplane level by not providing any flights out. If they allow you to leave to visit a relative saddling then with a 3,000+ tax on the way is not really fair.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ipaddr 5y agoThe borders are closed for vacation travel and most employment related travel. The hotel costs are the best example of a good idea implemented poorly. Asking for a negative test good idea. Having to wait upto 3 days to get results a bad idea. Limiting the number of hotels or places they can stay to a handful and allowing them to charge top rates plus covid surcharges while providing a budget experience a really bad idea. Forcing a 3 day hotel package when your test might be available in 24 hours is the icing in the cake.
- lisper 5y agoSimilar rules apply in Hawaii (as I am currently learning the hard way). You have to fill out a rather Draconian questionnaire to go there. I'm wondering if there's actually a legal basis for Hawaii to do this for domestic flights, or if it's just "because we can". Also, the information on the official Hawaii web site conflicts with that provided by UAL, which makes it hard to figure out how to comply.
- ghaff 5y agoStates do have public health powers. For example, based on SCOTUS precedent, they can require vaccines (or at least fine people who don't get them or prevent them from attending school). And, in practice, airlines are going to impose any rules a state established.
- dzonga 5y agoin Taiwan, it's about the same. arrive in the country and quarantine for two weeks at your own expense, at a quarantine hotel. I think it's a good policy, however I think it's excessive. but however seems to be working as covid is non-existent here.
- bserge 5y ago> They don't care about whether you've already recovered from covid Why? Aren't the resulting antibodies the same as those acquired from the vaccine?
- waterhouse 5y ago> They don't care about whether you've already recovered from covid ... or whether you're fully vaccinated Well, it sounds like they're treating the two states the same, so at least it's consistent.
- Wistar 5y agoMy daughter's boyfriend, an RN, has been fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine. This week, on the advice of hospital management, he is getting the first of two jabs of the Moderna vaccine. Anyone else heard of this double vaccination approach?
- alttab 5y agoIs this a joke?
- Google234 5y agoThat’s incredibly wasteful of him and unscientific.
- vcxy 5y agoWasteful of his employer, not him.
- Godel_unicode 5y agoIt's not like they're forcing him to do it. He could just say "no"...
- GavinMcG 5y agoIn many states there wouldn't necessarily be any protection from losing his job, if he did.
- nrmitchi 5y agoLet me explain how that would play out. ``` Employer: We want you to take an extra and unnecessary vaccine dose, which you, as an RN, likely understand to be most-likely useless. Employee: That's useless and unnecessary. No, I won't take it. Employer: You're fired. ``` What kind of magical world do you think people live in where their employer doesn't hold a stupid amount of power over them?
- 5y ago
- Google234 5y agoThe CDC has been horrible on this topic. They’ve been incredibly reluctant to say that vaccinated people can act any differently than non-vaccinated people...
- stevewodil 5y agoBecause in the USA all the anti-vaxxers will just produce fake vaccination cards. If the CDC comes out and says those who have been vaccinated don't need masks, suddenly everyone will be "vaccinated".
- Godel_unicode 5y agoRemember all the fake ADA cards last summer?
- bserge 5y agoThey might be talking about actual forged cards heh. In my country, people started doing them, fake stamps and all, so they switched to checking QR codes that link to approved labs' websites. Ridiculous, but at 40 Euros per test that you need every time, probably profitable.
- stevewodil 5y agoYes, it's the same as a lot of completely untrained "service" dogs
- spurgu 5y agoThat's a valid concern all over the world I would think. If some people start walking around normally and people question them and they just respond "I'm vaccinated!", that'll spread like a wildfire.
- bradleyjg 5y agoEvery time our government agencies have tried to manipulate the public by being economical with the truth instead of just being honest and open about the balancing consideration all they’ve done is burned massive amounts of credibility with the public and given rise to conspiracy theories. How am I supposed to counter these conspiracy theories when government officials are concededly out there telling “noble” lies?
- bradleyjg 5y agoWe’re still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After you’ve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions—like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces—in public places until we know more. This requires more justification. If we took the cautious choice every time we didn’t have all the facts, civilization would collapse. We may not have gold standard scientific studies but what is our best guess of the distribution of possible consequences of fully vaccinated people attending medium or large gatherings? How do those balance against our best guess of the distribution of costs of continuing to bar such attendance? Where’s the analysis?
- xahrepap 5y agoTo me the justification is: we're in the midst of what we already know to be a global pandemic. The number of lives lost is nothing to scoff at. We do not want to declare victory until we know we can declare victory. Personally, I feel that's a fair justification for the CDC's hesitation.
- bradleyjg 5y agoIf we throw out cost benefit analysis and just go with our guts “out of an abundance of caution” we are no better than the anti-vaxxers.
- xahrepap 5y agoI think there's an argument to be made that we can make the cost benefit analysis with or without assuming the vaccine is a silver-bullet. The CDC is choosing to not make that assumption and make the analysis that way. I don't think it's fair to put that methodology in the same bucket as anti-vax logic.
- bradleyjg 5y agoAssuming the vaccine is or isn’t perfectly effective aren’t the only two options. They can use a probability distribution. Surely at least one statistician works at the CDC.
- CyberRabbi 5y agoGood reminder that just because you’ve had the jab that doesn’t mean that everything is “back to normal.” We’re still in a pandemic. It’s still critical everyone continue to wear masks and social distance in public. Also more mutations are appearing from the UK and South Africa so likely we will need booster shots in a few months. We’re almost there but not quite.
- rajup 5y agoWe'll never be "there" whatever "there" means. All signs are pointing towards this becoming endemic in humans like the flu.
- spookthesunset 5y agoI mean we said as much back in March of 2020. These lockdowns weren’t to eradicate covid. They were to intentionally slow it down to buy time to build up healthcare systems. Somehow that messaging has been lost to “if everybody did a hard lockdown, this would be over sooner” The CDC is doing a mass disservice by keeping restrictions on vaccinated people. The message they are giving is “vaccines don’t really work and even if they did it isn’t good enough”. We have oodles of proof from Israel that these vaccines are perhaps the best humans have ever created. But no... that isn’t good enough for our public health overlords. I have no clue how this all ends in lockdown states. But the overly conservative “mother knows best” public health messaging isn’t really gonna sell vaccines to people who weren’t concerned about covid. Also, the idea of being a fully vaccinated grocery store worker having to wear an uncomfortable mask for a full shift knowing full well it is only for appearances... especially when your politicians offer no suggestions when they can take it off again. That is some hot garbage.
- throwaway316943 5y agoWhere’s “Keep calm and carry on” when you actually need it.
- drcongo 5y agoI'm not sure why you're getting downvoted, but it could be down to the "more mutations are appearing from the UK and South Africa" line - as I understand it, we know about those mutations just because the UK and SA are doing a very good job of documenting every mutation they come across. There'll be just as many, if not more, variations in the US but the US isn't bothering to track and document them.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- idlewords 5y agoPsychologically, the moment you get the first shot you feel immortal. The CDC here is offering the public health version of abstinence training. Yes, in theory you should behave like you're unprotected until two weeks after the second shot. In practice, people are going to throw a rager on the first warm weekend of spring, followed by a hedonistic summer, and it would be nice to have more guidelines about mitigating risk in those circumstances, and fewer expecting people to maintain an unrealistic strictness. It's also a bummer to see basic CDC guidelines still not mentioning adequate ventilation, which helps far more than masks do, over a year after we learned the disease is airborne.
- lastofthemojito 5y agoI certainly had that feeling ... until 5 days after my first shot when I tested positive for COVID (which I almost certainly contracted at the pharmacy where I got the shot). Talk about an emotional rollercoaster. Thankfully my case was very mild so maybe the vaccine still helped. But now that I'm doubly protected (natural antibodies and vaccine-induced antibodies?) I'm ready for that hedonistic summer you mentioned - where do I sign up!?
- bserge 5y agoYou're not double protected, it's the same antibodies. Recovered from Covid antibodies = vaccine antibodies. But that's just how I understand it, I'm not an expert. I don't really understand why people who just recovered from Covid (~1 month) still need the vaccine. Not that I mind it, I just can't get it.
- idlewords 5y agoBecause both give you antibodies, but only the vaccine has that microchip
- lastofthemojito 5y agoYeah, I had some questions about whether I should still get my second dose having had COVID after the first dose. Would it potentially cause any health concerns? Did I even need it? Should that dose instead become a first dose for someone else? Most of the guidance I found was the medical equivalent of "shrug, go ahead and get the second dose", so I did. Hope you're able to get yours soon!
- fireeyed 5y agoNot going to happen. I am not going to risk my life and my family's life on emergency use experimental vaccines. Typical vaccines are multi year efforts 5 o 6 years atleast multiple rounds of trials over longer time horizon to identify the side effects.
- adampk 5y agoHonest question, does this mean you will be doing a self-imposed lockdown for 5 years until you see the long term effects of vaccination?
- fireeyed 5y agoNo I believe I along with my family have already been exposed to the virus with various interactions. We live in a crowded condo with central air and people piling on in the mail room. Everyone in the building including me ordering takeout. There is no reason for me to be in lockdown.
- fireeyed 5y agoSomeone just down voted me for saying CDC does not have the authority to tell me an American Citizen what I can and cannot do without a warrant.
- xboxnolifes 5y agoNo, you got downvoted for reading a set of guidelines and complaining like it was a set of orders.
- ticviking 5y agoThis has been my basic approach for months. The risk has to be balanced with the rewards. So I wear masks when asked to and wash my hands often. And take the 1/1000ish risk of contracting covid a few times a week. Trusting that my low risk of it having lasting complications means that it costs me something like 1/million chance of really bad outcomes to resume most of my normal life.
- chad_homenim 5y ago>Still can get COVID >Still infect others >Still have to wear a mask >Need another jab in September >Get worse side effects than getting sick naturally >Get blood clots Why the hell should I get a shot?
- lacker 5y agoWhy should you not attend medium-size gatherings after being vaccinated? It's okay to be in a group of 100 people in a plane, but not in that same group of people in a field outside? It doesn't make any sense to me. There are more people dying from shark attacks than from covid spread through medium-size gatherings of vaccinated people. I feel like the CDC has this mistaken idea of how to get trust, that they will become trusted by always erring on the side of "more lockdown". But always making the same mistake isn't the way to get people to trust you, it's the way to get people to realize, oh this group doesn't really tell you the truth. They are like the boy crying wolf, giving you many false warnings and making it impossible to tell the real warnings.
- dylan604 5y ago>There are more people dying from shark attacks than from covid spread through medium-size gatherings of vaccinated people. You have valid points that get thrown out the window with this kind of BS comment. There are times with sarcasm/hyperbole are fine, but I don't think this is one and only leads to the noise surrounding the signal
- toomim 5y agoHow about this then: There are 4x the number of people dying from fentanyl than covid in SF.
- visviva 5y agoWithout commenting on the content itself, this is nice public messaging. It's clear, unambiguous, quick and easy to read, and preempts most follow-up questions people are likely to have.
- christiansakai 5y agoShoot first, ask questions later?
- christiansakai 5y agoSo the vaccines don’t actually work?
- CabSauce 5y agoThere's one set of rules/guidelines?
- christiansakai 5y agoNot sure I understand.
- CabSauce 5y agoAgreed.
- scubbo 5y agoNothing about this page supports that claim. No-one ever claimed that getting vaccinated means that you are not _carrying_ the virus - simply that you're protected from becoming sick and expressing symptoms. The caution about "things you shouldn't do" is intended to protect at-risk people from asymptomatic carriers (which "vaccinated but still carrying" people are). Can you elaborate on your claim?
- drcongo 5y agoIt's just something he heard on Joe Rogan.
- christiansakai 5y agoI don't watch podcast.
- christiansakai 5y agoSo we gonna end up using mask and social distancing and not gathering indoors until the dawn of humanity? Genuine question.
- bserge 5y agoRelated to this, I don't understand why recovering from Covid and having Igm and Igg antibodies confirmed by test doesn't count the same as having received a full vaccination. Isn't that exactly what the vaccine does? The end result is you get antibodies that last for several months at least, and cannot get reinfected. And yet, every time I need to travel I need a PCR test. It's not often at all, mind you, but going between 2 countries is a major pain. Meanwhile professional drivers, and only them, are allowed to travel with a previous positive Covid test + Igg antibodies test. And last time I crossed the border, they let in a woman who had a lateral flow test, smh. It makes no sense to me. Anyone has any insight aside from downvotes?
- vineyardmike 5y agoCan’t find a source atm (it was some video presentation from a biological researcher recently) but I heard that the level of antibodies you get from a vaccine is a multiple higher than from a prior infection. Also, the infection supposedly only protects you for a short period of time (clear since re-infection is possible). Also we don’t have much data on how a prior-infected person can spread the virus as a carrier. We have this same concern with the vaccine. Edit: when we see that certain professions have special rules, it’s more likely that they just got special permission since the job is important not that they have different biological safety.
- bserge 5y agoThat's interesting, first time I hear about it. I did read it protects from more variants. And it's the Igg antibodies that protect from re-infection, but only for 3-6 months at most. Some say it's the same for the vaccine, so it will likely need to be a regular thing, like flu shots.
- orev 5y agoThe idea is that when you get sick, your body just starts randomly throwing things at the virus to see what works, and eventually it finds something that “works”, even though it might not be the optimal solution. The vaccine gives your immune system a plan for the “most effective” solution, which is expected to act more quickly and cover more variants. This is why they are also recommending people get vaccinated even if they have already recovered from an infection.
- shin_lao 5y agoAppreciate the clear messaging, I think they need more coherence regarding masking, otherwise they lose credibility. I also think the CDC should start to heavily invest in STI prevention now...
- fireeyed 5y agoThis must be an Onion News article. Because right off the bat CDC cannot tell me an American Citizen with inalienable rights to not gather. As the law stands today. If you don't like the law, change it.
- felipellrocha 5y agoI can't tell if this is satire or not
- toomim 5y agoWelcome to Hypernormalisation. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypernormalization https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypernormali... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fny99f8amM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fny99f8amM
- mttjj 5y agoUnfortunately, it's probably not. But it's another case of someone not being able to tell the difference between a law and guidelines from a public health agency. (Or someone ignoring the difference so that they can be "outraged".)
- readflaggedcomm 5y agoThese are recommendations. A private company can fire you or kick you out for disobeying their terms of service, whether adopted from the CDC or the Contributor Covenant.
- christiansakai 5y agoSince I got flagged in other comments, I'll post again here. Does this imply that we will wear mask, social distancing and avoid indoor gathering until the dusk of humanity? I know my question is retarded and stupid compared to smart HN folks, so please enlighten me.
- fireeyed 5y agoPreach brother, the Communist Disease Control agency's reps here are in full force. They downvoted me for saying CDC does not have the authority to infringe on my rights.
- Godel_unicode 5y agoI'm guessing they downvoted you because they realize that CDC recommendations are not laws. A government agency making recommendations certainly does not infringe on your rights, and you are free to ignore their recommendations. Ignoring them might cause consequences for you if others (local government, private restaurant, etc) have put in place actual rules which utilize the language from the CDC recommendations, but that's a very different thing. From right above the list of recommendations: """These recommendations can help you make decisions about daily activities after you are fully vaccinated"""
- dang 5y agoWe've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our request to stop. Not cool. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ac29 5y agoOf course not. At some point immunity will be high enough, and infections, hospitalizations and deaths will be low enough that those restrictions will go away. That point is not today, but this page lays out what the CDC thinks vaccinated people can do until that point.
- fireeyed 5y agoDoes CDC stand for Clearly Devoid of Commonsense ? Because this looks like an Onion News Article to me. No CDC you cannot tell me what to do and what not to do. Its called Bill of Rights.
- Miner49er 5y agoIt's clear that these are just recommendations if you read it.
- fireeyed 5y agoThe Chinese Cultural Revolution and Nazi purge of Jews all started as "recommendations"
- ghaff 5y agoAFAIK, the federal government doesn't have any power except at the borders and on federal property. The only organizations that can actually mandate e.g. mask-wearing is state and local government in public places and private businesses.
- rajup 5y agoTry telling the people being yelled at for not wearing masks in uncrowded, wide open spaces and not being allowed to travel freely that these are just "recommendations".
- ghaff 5y ago>people being yelled at for not wearing masks in uncrowded, wide open spaces How much does this actually happen? Around where I live, people mostly don't wear masks outside. At most they might pull something up when passing someone on a trail. I go out quite a bit and I've never seen anything like this first hand.
- zwieback 5y agoWhich article in the BoR says that the CDC can't make recommendations?
- christiansakai 5y agoThis is my nth time posting in this thread, and I only kept getting downvotes instead of explanations. Ah, the wisdom of HN crowds never cease to awe me sometimes (and disgust me sometimes). Come on, explanation, bring it. Do the vaccines work or not? What is the reasoning we should avoid social gathering, indoor gathering, and using mask if we already got vaccinated? Does this mean we will end up doing this until this empire's sunset?
- loonster 5y agoI just want people to stop pushing their religious beliefs onto me. I'm not a believer, leave me alone.
- visviva 5y agoGiven your tone (and the fact that all of the answers are readily available from this article and other sources online) I doubt your questions are sincere or that any attempt to answer them will be well-received, but here goes: > Do the vaccines work or not Yes [1] > What is the reasoning we should avoid social gathering, indoor gathering, and using mask if we already got vaccinated? Because we don't know how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease. (from the article) > Does this mean we will end up doing this until this empire's sunset? No, what part of the article implies this? [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/work.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...
- bradleyjg 5y ago> Because we don't know how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease. There are lots of things we don’t know. We don’t know if a supervolcano will blow next month and send the planet into a multi-year winter. Should we change our behavior today so that if that happens next month lives will be saved? We don’t know and therefore we should do something is assuming the conclusion.
- ipaddr 5y agoThe vaccine lessons the impact and keeps you from dying at the same rate. You can still get covid and spread. Yes a new norm is required until it starts dying out or changes into something worse.
- bradleyjg 5y agoI don’t think apologists for the CDC are grasping what’s at stake here. If the government and especially government scientists are widely perceived to have lied to the public, no matter how noble a reason they think they have, it is going to further shatter faith in our institutions. This could well be our Watergate.