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As a web developer, who mostly spends time with Go and Python, is there any benefits of learning C?

bitexploder 6y ago
C is a low level language that compiles down directly to assembly. It is similar to Go in this regard, but is a bit lower level. You have to manage memory yourself and pointers in C are much more dangerous. Reasons to learn C would include: absolute performance needed maybe for say a Python C extension, kernel hacking, some other project you want to contribute to uses C. I think it’s good to at least play with C and understand how memory management and pointers in C work, but I don’t think I would recommend you go out of your way to learn C or spend any significant amount of time writing it. At the end of the day it’s just another tool in the toolbox. I would recommend the book Code, by Petzold, if you want to really want to explore computers at a low level in a friendly format.
- inb4_cancelled 6y ago
  > language that compiles down directly to assembly Directly to machine code, not assembly.
- fractalb 6y ago
  nitpick. I think C compiles directly to machine code. There's no intermediate step of compiling to assembly first.
heinrichhartman 6y ago
Writing correct C is REALLY hard and slow (strings, manual memory management, concurrency pitfalls). So the investment is not paying off unless you are writing highly performance critical backend services. What can pay-off is learning to read C. Node.js, Firefox, Postgres, Linux are all written in C/C++ so if you ever want to really understand what's going on or have to debug a nasty bug, then you will need to be able to find your way around these code-bases.
- scoutt 6y ago
  > So the investment is not paying off unless you are writing highly performance critical backend services. You took it too far. C opens the door for today's embedded, like, you know, blinking an LED with some microcontroller.
  - jcelerier 6y ago
    Most people do that on Arduino which is as c++ as it gets, with templates, etc...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Yoofie 6y ago
      If you mean hobbyists, then probably yes. But there are whole industries who use embedded C as the defacto standard, such as automotive.
      - jcelerier 6y ago
        I've worked on automotive and that was definitely C++, to a very deep level
- roryrjb 6y ago
  Also beyond the codebases themselves, interactions with the running code via GDB or tracing frameworks like dtrace, bpftrace, where you often reference C data structures. As well as being able to more fully understand the output of strace and other tools.
flohofwoe 6y ago
Not really, but it depends. For instance, C is pretty great for compiling simple logic into WASM modules because the size overhead is minimal compared to most higher-level languages, or even C++ with careless use of the stdlib (and the missing memory safety isn't such a critical problem because everything runs in the WASM sandbox anyway). E.g. I think the size of my WASM demos is quite reasonable for what they do: https://floooh.github.io/tiny8bit/ https://floooh.github.io/tiny8bit/ https://floooh.github.io/sokol-html5/ https://floooh.github.io/sokol-html5/ However, AssemblyScript is also a pretty good choice for this type of stuff from what I'm hearing (while for instance languages with a complex runtime like C# are not).
10x-dev 6y ago
Your question is too vague. Are there benefits in general? Of course, every language has something to offer. Is it useful as a web developer? Only if you want to write extensions to Python in C or step away from the web developer label and learn systems programming.
aiioquip 6y ago
For you, yes: you will better understand Python's source code, which is written in C. Poke around the source code a bit just out of curiosity after learning a bit of C and it becomes a bit interesting.
antegamisou 6y ago
If you're interested in: -Embedded/cyber-physical systems software (firmware dev) -Driver development (applies to Win/macOS/UNIX/iOS/Android) -Contributing to the Linux kernel/OS dev in general -Contributing to many large OSS projects (Apache, ffmpeg) -Exploit/malware dev/reverse engineering -Emulator development you'd need to learn C.
pdpi 6y ago
I find that there is a lot of value in learning "how the sausage is made". Implementing your own baby version of the things you take for granted in higher-level languages is an interesting exercise — e.g. things like dynamic dispatch. These are things that are not directly useful, but help you have a better mental model of how your language of choice actually works.

C is a low level language that compiles down directly to assembly. It is similar to Go in this regard, but is a bit lower level. You have to manage memory yourself and pointers in C are much more dangerous. Reasons to learn C would include: absolute performance needed maybe for say a Python C extension, kernel hacking, some other project you want to contribute to uses C. I think it’s good to at least play with C and understand how memory management and pointers in C work, but I don’t think I would recommend you go out of your way to learn C or spend any significant amount of time writing it. At the end of the day it’s just another tool in the toolbox. I would recommend the book Code, by Petzold, if you want to really want to explore computers at a low level in a friendly format.

inb4_cancelled 6y ago
> language that compiles down directly to assembly Directly to machine code, not assembly.
fractalb 6y ago
nitpick. I think C compiles directly to machine code. There's no intermediate step of compiling to assembly first.

heinrichhartman 6y ago

Writing correct C is REALLY hard and slow (strings, manual memory management, concurrency pitfalls). So the investment is not paying off unless you are writing highly performance critical backend services. What can pay-off is learning to read C. Node.js, Firefox, Postgres, Linux are all written in C/C++ so if you ever want to really understand what's going on or have to debug a nasty bug, then you will need to be able to find your way around these code-bases.

scoutt 6y ago
> So the investment is not paying off unless you are writing highly performance critical backend services. You took it too far. C opens the door for today's embedded, like, you know, blinking an LED with some microcontroller.
- jcelerier 6y ago
  Most people do that on Arduino which is as c++ as it gets, with templates, etc...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Yoofie 6y ago
    If you mean hobbyists, then probably yes. But there are whole industries who use embedded C as the defacto standard, such as automotive.
    - jcelerier 6y ago
      I've worked on automotive and that was definitely C++, to a very deep level
roryrjb 6y ago
Also beyond the codebases themselves, interactions with the running code via GDB or tracing frameworks like dtrace, bpftrace, where you often reference C data structures. As well as being able to more fully understand the output of strace and other tools.

flohofwoe 6y ago

Not really, but it depends. For instance, C is pretty great for compiling simple logic into WASM modules because the size overhead is minimal compared to most higher-level languages, or even C++ with careless use of the stdlib (and the missing memory safety isn't such a critical problem because everything runs in the WASM sandbox anyway). E.g. I think the size of my WASM demos is quite reasonable for what they do: https://floooh.github.io/tiny8bit/ https://floooh.github.io/tiny8bit/ https://floooh.github.io/sokol-html5/ https://floooh.github.io/sokol-html5/ However, AssemblyScript is also a pretty good choice for this type of stuff from what I'm hearing (while for instance languages with a complex runtime like C# are not).

10x-dev 6y ago

Your question is too vague. Are there benefits in general? Of course, every language has something to offer. Is it useful as a web developer? Only if you want to write extensions to Python in C or step away from the web developer label and learn systems programming.

aiioquip 6y ago

For you, yes: you will better understand Python's source code, which is written in C. Poke around the source code a bit just out of curiosity after learning a bit of C and it becomes a bit interesting.

antegamisou 6y ago

If you're interested in: -Embedded/cyber-physical systems software (firmware dev) -Driver development (applies to Win/macOS/UNIX/iOS/Android) -Contributing to the Linux kernel/OS dev in general -Contributing to many large OSS projects (Apache, ffmpeg) -Exploit/malware dev/reverse engineering -Emulator development you'd need to learn C.

pdpi 6y ago

I find that there is a lot of value in learning "how the sausage is made". Implementing your own baby version of the things you take for granted in higher-level languages is an interesting exercise — e.g. things like dynamic dispatch. These are things that are not directly useful, but help you have a better mental model of how your language of choice actually works.