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I suggest you look at how much Youtube and Netflix burn electricity. Not saying these things are fine. Just that Bitcoin is quite unfairly singled out.

by 127 6y ago

lorenzhs 6y ago
Less than bitcoin, while providing actual value? According to Netflix's 2020 ESG report [1], their hardware infrastructure used just under 95 GWh in 2020 (not including data transmission or your TV). All of which was from renewable sources, btw. Including transmission and the end-user's viewing devices, watching Netflix is estimated to use 77W of power [2], for a total estimate of around 1.2 TWh per year. Bitcoin is estimated at 140 TWh per year [3], or 1500 times Netflix's data centre power usage, or a 120 times the likely total energy consumption of watching Netflix. Going further, all data centres in the world use an estimated 200 TWh per year, and data transmission networks are estimated at 250 TWh per year [4], for a total of 3.2 times Bitcoin's energy use. Maybe it's just me, but the value provided by the internet is more than 3.2 times higher than that of Bitcoin. [1] https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_downloads/2021/03/2020-SASB-Report_FINAL.pdf https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_downloads/2021/03/... [2] https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-streaming-video-fact-checking-the-headlines https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-str... [3] https://cbeci.org/ https://cbeci.org/ [4] https://www.iea.org/reports/data-centres-and-data-transmission-networks https://www.iea.org/reports/data-centres-and-data-transmissi...
- 1337biz 6y ago
  > Less than bitcoin, while providing actual value? Value is subjective. What you call actual value has zero value to others.
  - IMTDb 6y ago
    The difference is that the energy used by Netflix to stream content is a mean to an end. Find a way to reduce the energy cost and you can provide the same value for less cost. It is possible to both increase the value provided by Netflix and decrease the energy consumed by it. In fact it's even desirable. The energy consumed by Bitcoin is the entire value. Find a way to reduce the energy cost and everyone will mine more and consume more. If they don't the trust in the network decreases and the value of Bitcoin decreases. It is not possible to get a popular situation where bitcoin is valuable and does not consume a lot of energy. The valu of Bitcoin is strictly tied to the amount of electricity people are willing to waste for it.
- 127 6y ago
  If Youtube is 10% of internet traffic and internet traffic is 10% of world energy use, the number is significantly more than the number you posted. https://thefactsource.com/how-much-electricity-does-youtube-use/ https://thefactsource.com/how-much-electricity-does-youtube-... (240TWh)
  - lorenzhs 6y ago
    Yes, but the link I posted goes into significant detail why numbers as high as those in your link can't possibly be accurate.
nullifidian 6y ago
Netflix and Youtube serve good purposes. What purpose does Bitcoin serve? Helping people hide money, evade taxes, speculate without creating any value, buy drugs, make ransomware viable? Or as some proponents imagine, subvert financial institutions and national governments? No need to answer.
imtringued 6y ago
Bitcoin mining is defense spending. The only fair comparison is to compare it to the US army energy consumption and when you consider that the protection granted by the US army spans multiple countries and partially protects Bitcoin it is entirely stacked against Bitcoin.
- adflux 6y ago
  ... What are you even saying? Mining bitcoin is comparable to the US army? LOL. How delusional are you, is that correlated with the amount of BTC you own?

I suggest you look at how much Youtube and Netflix burn electricity. Not saying these things are fine. Just that Bitcoin is quite unfairly singled out.

by 127 6y ago

I suggest you look at how much Youtube and Netflix burn electricity. Not saying these things are fine. Just that Bitcoin is quite unfairly singled out.

lorenzhs 6y ago

Less than bitcoin, while providing actual value? According to Netflix's 2020 ESG report [1], their hardware infrastructure used just under 95 GWh in 2020 (not including data transmission or your TV). All of which was from renewable sources, btw. Including transmission and the end-user's viewing devices, watching Netflix is estimated to use 77W of power [2], for a total estimate of around 1.2 TWh per year. Bitcoin is estimated at 140 TWh per year [3], or 1500 times Netflix's data centre power usage, or a 120 times the likely total energy consumption of watching Netflix. Going further, all data centres in the world use an estimated 200 TWh per year, and data transmission networks are estimated at 250 TWh per year [4], for a total of 3.2 times Bitcoin's energy use. Maybe it's just me, but the value provided by the internet is more than 3.2 times higher than that of Bitcoin. [1] https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_downloads/2021/03/2020-SASB-Report_FINAL.pdf https://s22.q4cdn.com/959853165/files/doc_downloads/2021/03/... [2] https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-streaming-video-fact-checking-the-headlines https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-str... [3] https://cbeci.org/ https://cbeci.org/ [4] https://www.iea.org/reports/data-centres-and-data-transmission-networks https://www.iea.org/reports/data-centres-and-data-transmissi...

1337biz 6y ago
> Less than bitcoin, while providing actual value? Value is subjective. What you call actual value has zero value to others.
- IMTDb 6y ago
  The difference is that the energy used by Netflix to stream content is a mean to an end. Find a way to reduce the energy cost and you can provide the same value for less cost. It is possible to both increase the value provided by Netflix and decrease the energy consumed by it. In fact it's even desirable. The energy consumed by Bitcoin is the entire value. Find a way to reduce the energy cost and everyone will mine more and consume more. If they don't the trust in the network decreases and the value of Bitcoin decreases. It is not possible to get a popular situation where bitcoin is valuable and does not consume a lot of energy. The valu of Bitcoin is strictly tied to the amount of electricity people are willing to waste for it.
127 6y ago
If Youtube is 10% of internet traffic and internet traffic is 10% of world energy use, the number is significantly more than the number you posted. https://thefactsource.com/how-much-electricity-does-youtube-use/ https://thefactsource.com/how-much-electricity-does-youtube-... (240TWh)
- lorenzhs 6y ago
  Yes, but the link I posted goes into significant detail why numbers as high as those in your link can't possibly be accurate.

nullifidian 6y ago

Netflix and Youtube serve good purposes. What purpose does Bitcoin serve? Helping people hide money, evade taxes, speculate without creating any value, buy drugs, make ransomware viable? Or as some proponents imagine, subvert financial institutions and national governments? No need to answer.

imtringued 6y ago

Bitcoin mining is defense spending. The only fair comparison is to compare it to the US army energy consumption and when you consider that the protection granted by the US army spans multiple countries and partially protects Bitcoin it is entirely stacked against Bitcoin.

adflux 6y ago
... What are you even saying? Mining bitcoin is comparable to the US army? LOL. How delusional are you, is that correlated with the amount of BTC you own?