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How can you not see what the importance of this new infrastructure? I come here and read these comments and am just at a loss for words at this point. Forget Bi

How can you not see what the importance of this new infrastructure? I come here and read these comments and am just at a loss for words at this point. Forget Bitcoin and look at Ethereum. This tech is so powerful I am in some ways scared of it and you call it a fad. The gulf between our interpretations drops my jaw to the floor :)

graeme 5y ago
Can you name some use cases that aren’t trading crypto derivatives or crypto debt? Ethereum is certainly more interesting than Bitcoin but the use cases so far seem to be more speculation.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  One use case: Buying something without a credit card online.
  - dogecoinbase 5y ago
    Finally, I can purchase something without recourse in the event that I'm defrauded.
  - graeme 5y ago
    With Ethereum? That seems like one of the least interesting possible use cases. * For one, Bitcoin can do this too (though not in many places) * For two, you can’t do it in many places * For three, you already can buy online with paypal, prepaid debit/credit, and other checkout solutions, for less fees. You can buy a prepaid credit card useable online in any convenience store for a low fee.... I don’t think this is what OP meant.
  - BEEdwards 5y ago
    And you bought the crypto itself with magic?
    - ccortes 5y ago
      With cash
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      You want to know how you get bitcoins without magic? Mining, trading, buyinc frik
- cslarson 5y ago
  Sovereign identity, DAOs, NFTs (not just the art stuff which atm is a little cringe but game items, land registries, deeds), stablecoins (usdc, dai, yes there is also wilder experimentation here). I think people can quickly get dissuaded by some negatives like lack of scaling or environmental issues. These are real but are being solved. We really need communities like HN to engage because if proponents are right then the change will be vast and we are unprepared. My personal favorite outcome is playing out right now. When a tech company is successful they capture near 100% of the value, despite leeching content off users. Ethereum based projects generally share rewards with the community of users that make the protocol/network successful. Applications are forkable, not just the code but the community, too. The community is in control.
  - graeme 5y ago
    And what are some example use cases you can do with those things, or that people are using them for? Genuinely asking. I see people very excited about things like DAOs, but most descriptions seem to be about inter crypto use cases. With the early internet it was easy enough to see there were use cases like “instantly send a letter to someone across the world” or “order a book not stocked at your local store” or “go directly to Nintendo’s website and read their info”. I remember doing this last one as a kid in the library and was instantly taken with the internet. What are some similar ELI5 use cases of the Ethereum chain and those names you mention? Other than intra crypto loans, derivatives etc
    - base698 5y ago
      https://seekingalpha.com/news/3680926-binance-launches-tradable-stock-tokens-kicking-off-with-tesla-token https://seekingalpha.com/news/3680926-binance-launches-trada... Liquidity for things that don't normally have liquidity. Example: like wrapped Bitcoin, you could create wrapped Wine. Say you've got $1 million in a wine cellar. Create a wrapped token which allows you to use it as collateral or provide it to a liquidity pool to generate revenue. Now your wine is earning you interest. Something like this may already exist... Same for Tesla stock above. Now that a TSLA token exists you could provide to a pool for interest since it doesn't pay a dividend.
- c01n 5y ago
  Short list: - Pseudonymous Transactions - Multiple Accounts - International Transfers - Customization (smart contracts) - Micro Payments / Internet money - Privacy - Low entry (Phone, internet) - Peer 2 Peer and decentralized - Free Software - Programmable
- c01n 5y ago
  - Pseudonymous Transactions / Privacy - Multiple Accounts - International Transfers - Customization (smart contracts) - Micro Payments / Internet money - Low entry (Phone, internet) - Peer 2 Peer and decentralized - Free Software
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    > Pseudonymous Transactions / Privacy Not really tech problems; you're bound to the limits of the law > International Transfers Not a tech problem; international trx are dropping in price as competition increases; tech doesn't change anything here. > Micro Payments / Internet money There is no way to scale the tech to the volume where it makes sense for microtransactions. I'm not really seeing these as problems fundamentally limited by technology.
    - intotheabyss 5y ago
      You can scale Ethereum by running computations off-chain and submitting batches of zero knowledge proofs on-chain. StarkWare https://starkware.co/ https://starkware.co/ is the leading layer 2 for zk proofs. There are also other platforms that use other zero knowledge techniques to batch computation and sends proofs of that computation on-chain.
  - tootahe45 5y ago
    > - Micro Payments / Internet money Isn't eth terrible at this? i have $12 USDT stuck on an eth address because i need to spent $30 worth of eth to send it. That's not even including the fee I'll incur when i have to send eth to the address to fund it..
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- beambot 5y ago
  Censorship-free distributed storage (using Ethereum & Filecoin)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - viraptor 5y ago
    I wouldn't rely on that one. As cool as Filecoin is, LE can query who has a given file and chase them and their ISP until they no longer advertise that file. Without secrecy you can't have a censorship-free solution.
    - beambot 5y ago
      The Ethereum smart contract can advertise the file in perpetuity by being memorialized on the blockchain in an irrevocable way
      - viraptor 5y ago
        You'd have to embed the whole file in the blockchain for that. At that point Filecoin is not relevant. That's not censorship-free either - the use of Eth network can be banned too. And LE or govs see who to target too.
        beambot 5y ago
        > You'd have to embed the whole file in the blockchain for that No, you don't. The eth contact can control ownership of and permissions to the Filecoin files. > Eth network can be banned too Banning the entire network is different than granular censorship of individual files > And LE or govs see who to target too. Anonymity is also different from censorship. You are talking about a lot of adjacencies and "what-abouts"... There are at least half a dozen projects in this vein at the moment, so I'll kindly leave the rest as an exercise to the reader
        5y ago
- tim333 5y ago
  NFTs!
TomSwirly 5y ago
Maybe that might make you question your assumptions? I mean, we've had a decades of cryptocurrency and just one actual application has arisen - crime. Money laundering, tax evasion, purchasing illegal items, and that sort of thing. When it comes down to it, cryptocurrencies say that people trust some obscure algorithm that almost none of them could evaluate over society and governments. It's a bad sign.

graeme 5y ago

Can you name some use cases that aren’t trading crypto derivatives or crypto debt? Ethereum is certainly more interesting than Bitcoin but the use cases so far seem to be more speculation.

ipaddr 5y ago
One use case: Buying something without a credit card online.
- dogecoinbase 5y ago
  Finally, I can purchase something without recourse in the event that I'm defrauded.
- graeme 5y ago
  With Ethereum? That seems like one of the least interesting possible use cases. * For one, Bitcoin can do this too (though not in many places) * For two, you can’t do it in many places * For three, you already can buy online with paypal, prepaid debit/credit, and other checkout solutions, for less fees. You can buy a prepaid credit card useable online in any convenience store for a low fee.... I don’t think this is what OP meant.
- BEEdwards 5y ago
  And you bought the crypto itself with magic?
  - ccortes 5y ago
    With cash
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    You want to know how you get bitcoins without magic? Mining, trading, buyinc frik
cslarson 5y ago
Sovereign identity, DAOs, NFTs (not just the art stuff which atm is a little cringe but game items, land registries, deeds), stablecoins (usdc, dai, yes there is also wilder experimentation here). I think people can quickly get dissuaded by some negatives like lack of scaling or environmental issues. These are real but are being solved. We really need communities like HN to engage because if proponents are right then the change will be vast and we are unprepared. My personal favorite outcome is playing out right now. When a tech company is successful they capture near 100% of the value, despite leeching content off users. Ethereum based projects generally share rewards with the community of users that make the protocol/network successful. Applications are forkable, not just the code but the community, too. The community is in control.
- graeme 5y ago
  And what are some example use cases you can do with those things, or that people are using them for? Genuinely asking. I see people very excited about things like DAOs, but most descriptions seem to be about inter crypto use cases. With the early internet it was easy enough to see there were use cases like “instantly send a letter to someone across the world” or “order a book not stocked at your local store” or “go directly to Nintendo’s website and read their info”. I remember doing this last one as a kid in the library and was instantly taken with the internet. What are some similar ELI5 use cases of the Ethereum chain and those names you mention? Other than intra crypto loans, derivatives etc
  - base698 5y ago
    https://seekingalpha.com/news/3680926-binance-launches-tradable-stock-tokens-kicking-off-with-tesla-token https://seekingalpha.com/news/3680926-binance-launches-trada... Liquidity for things that don't normally have liquidity. Example: like wrapped Bitcoin, you could create wrapped Wine. Say you've got $1 million in a wine cellar. Create a wrapped token which allows you to use it as collateral or provide it to a liquidity pool to generate revenue. Now your wine is earning you interest. Something like this may already exist... Same for Tesla stock above. Now that a TSLA token exists you could provide to a pool for interest since it doesn't pay a dividend.
c01n 5y ago
Short list: - Pseudonymous Transactions - Multiple Accounts - International Transfers - Customization (smart contracts) - Micro Payments / Internet money - Privacy - Low entry (Phone, internet) - Peer 2 Peer and decentralized - Free Software - Programmable
c01n 5y ago
- Pseudonymous Transactions / Privacy - Multiple Accounts - International Transfers - Customization (smart contracts) - Micro Payments / Internet money - Low entry (Phone, internet) - Peer 2 Peer and decentralized - Free Software
- Daishiman 5y ago
  > Pseudonymous Transactions / Privacy Not really tech problems; you're bound to the limits of the law > International Transfers Not a tech problem; international trx are dropping in price as competition increases; tech doesn't change anything here. > Micro Payments / Internet money There is no way to scale the tech to the volume where it makes sense for microtransactions. I'm not really seeing these as problems fundamentally limited by technology.
  - intotheabyss 5y ago
    You can scale Ethereum by running computations off-chain and submitting batches of zero knowledge proofs on-chain. StarkWare https://starkware.co/ https://starkware.co/ is the leading layer 2 for zk proofs. There are also other platforms that use other zero knowledge techniques to batch computation and sends proofs of that computation on-chain.
- tootahe45 5y ago
  > - Micro Payments / Internet money Isn't eth terrible at this? i have $12 USDT stuck on an eth address because i need to spent $30 worth of eth to send it. That's not even including the fee I'll incur when i have to send eth to the address to fund it..
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
beambot 5y ago
Censorship-free distributed storage (using Ethereum & Filecoin)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- viraptor 5y ago
  I wouldn't rely on that one. As cool as Filecoin is, LE can query who has a given file and chase them and their ISP until they no longer advertise that file. Without secrecy you can't have a censorship-free solution.
  - beambot 5y ago
    The Ethereum smart contract can advertise the file in perpetuity by being memorialized on the blockchain in an irrevocable way
    - viraptor 5y ago
      You'd have to embed the whole file in the blockchain for that. At that point Filecoin is not relevant. That's not censorship-free either - the use of Eth network can be banned too. And LE or govs see who to target too.
      - beambot 5y ago
        > You'd have to embed the whole file in the blockchain for that No, you don't. The eth contact can control ownership of and permissions to the Filecoin files. > Eth network can be banned too Banning the entire network is different than granular censorship of individual files > And LE or govs see who to target too. Anonymity is also different from censorship. You are talking about a lot of adjacencies and "what-abouts"... There are at least half a dozen projects in this vein at the moment, so I'll kindly leave the rest as an exercise to the reader
        5y ago
tim333 5y ago
NFTs!

TomSwirly 5y ago

Maybe that might make you question your assumptions? I mean, we've had a decades of cryptocurrency and just one actual application has arisen - crime. Money laundering, tax evasion, purchasing illegal items, and that sort of thing. When it comes down to it, cryptocurrencies say that people trust some obscure algorithm that almost none of them could evaluate over society and governments. It's a bad sign.