4 ms·

I’m involved with some US government OSS projects and it’s interesting US government content is public domain in the US so not copyrighted. This seems like it s

I’m involved with some US government OSS projects and it’s interesting US government content is public domain in the US so not copyrighted. This seems like it should be easy for open source because public domain, no copyright can be used for pretty much anything. However, this was confusing to many users and contributors so we worked with our lawyers to update the public domain notices to also include CC0 and MIT or ASL2. That seems to help but we still get questions about why include CC0 and an OSI license. There’s some confusion that these conflict although they don’t of material is released under both consistently. I think there are issues if you try to add one on top of the other. But I wish there was a cleaner way to handle this to allow for software and source to be used widely.

ghaff 6y ago
There is also an MIT-0 license that is OSI approved now. It doesn't have the questionable patent language that caused CC0 to eventually be withdrawn from OSI consideration. Of possibly historical interest, the MIT license was created in the first place because there were issues with just putting X Windows into the public domain.
zokier 6y ago
Doesn't open source license like MIT or ASL2 imply that there is an entity holding copyright? The very first line of MIT license is Copyright <YEAR> <COPYRIGHT HOLDER> But if USG can not hold copyright, how can it then apply license to its works?
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  I don't see much problem with somebody saying "we don't recognize our property over X, but if you for some reason insist we have property over it, we allow usage under those conditions." It's a really Kafkanian situation. And changing the license to make both claims not contradict each other would be way worse. But given the circumstances, it's a reasonable thing to write.
- dwheeler 6y ago
  The USG cannot hold copyright in the US in certain cases, but it can still apply copyright outside the US. So one approach is to say "no copyright within the US, outside the US use this license". The USG can hold copyright in some cases (e.g., copyright can be transferred to the USG). As often happens, "it's complicated".
- prepend 6y ago
  There’s potential to invalidate the license because that first line is left blank or is inaccurate as sometimes people mistakenly add a copyright notice. But our attorneys said that wasn’t a problem and we haven’t had any problems in the past decade, knock on wood.
pabs3 6y ago
US government content is only public domain in the US, that same content exported from the US is then copyrighted.
- dctoedt 6y ago
  > US government content is only public domain in the US, that same content exported from the US is then copyrighted. IP lawyer here — can you please cite a source? That's not at all my understanding of how it works.
  - pabs3 6y ago
    The second paragraph of the Wikipedia article on USG copyright states this and cites a couple of sources: This act only applies to U.S. domestic copyright as that is the extent of U.S. federal law. The U.S. government asserts that it can still hold the copyright to those works in other countries.[3][4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_of_the_United_States_Government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_of_the_United_States_Gove... https://www.cendi.gov/publications/FAQ_Copyright_30jan18.html#_Toc505089933 https://www.cendi.gov/publications/FAQ_Copyright_30jan18.htm... https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Copyright_Law_Revision_(House_Report_No._94-1476) https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Copyright_Law_Revision_(House... As you can see from the other comments in this sub-thread, this appears to be known by other FLOSS folks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26784003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26784003

ghaff 6y ago

There is also an MIT-0 license that is OSI approved now. It doesn't have the questionable patent language that caused CC0 to eventually be withdrawn from OSI consideration. Of possibly historical interest, the MIT license was created in the first place because there were issues with just putting X Windows into the public domain.

zokier 6y ago

Doesn't open source license like MIT or ASL2 imply that there is an entity holding copyright? The very first line of MIT license is Copyright <YEAR> <COPYRIGHT HOLDER> But if USG can not hold copyright, how can it then apply license to its works?

marcosdumay 6y ago
I don't see much problem with somebody saying "we don't recognize our property over X, but if you for some reason insist we have property over it, we allow usage under those conditions." It's a really Kafkanian situation. And changing the license to make both claims not contradict each other would be way worse. But given the circumstances, it's a reasonable thing to write.
dwheeler 6y ago
The USG cannot hold copyright in the US in certain cases, but it can still apply copyright outside the US. So one approach is to say "no copyright within the US, outside the US use this license". The USG can hold copyright in some cases (e.g., copyright can be transferred to the USG). As often happens, "it's complicated".
prepend 6y ago
There’s potential to invalidate the license because that first line is left blank or is inaccurate as sometimes people mistakenly add a copyright notice. But our attorneys said that wasn’t a problem and we haven’t had any problems in the past decade, knock on wood.

pabs3 6y ago

US government content is only public domain in the US, that same content exported from the US is then copyrighted.

dctoedt 6y ago
> US government content is only public domain in the US, that same content exported from the US is then copyrighted. IP lawyer here — can you please cite a source? That's not at all my understanding of how it works.
- pabs3 6y ago
  The second paragraph of the Wikipedia article on USG copyright states this and cites a couple of sources: This act only applies to U.S. domestic copyright as that is the extent of U.S. federal law. The U.S. government asserts that it can still hold the copyright to those works in other countries.[3][4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_of_the_United_States_Government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_of_the_United_States_Gove... https://www.cendi.gov/publications/FAQ_Copyright_30jan18.html#_Toc505089933 https://www.cendi.gov/publications/FAQ_Copyright_30jan18.htm... https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Copyright_Law_Revision_(House_Report_No._94-1476) https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Copyright_Law_Revision_(House... As you can see from the other comments in this sub-thread, this appears to be known by other FLOSS folks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26784003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26784003