5 ms·

Sure, but does any of that keep you from empathizing with the content of this letter?

imwillofficial 6y ago
Yes
Osmose 6y ago
Yeah, it does. In context, this letter, especially given it's posted to the FSF site and not, say, his personal website, is meant to justify electing him to the board and address the backlash against it, and I don't really have much patience for a letter addressing only one of the many complaints people have against allowing him a leadership role. It's dismissive of them.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  He even continues to defend Minsky in this letter. It's not even an apology, it's just more of the same.
  - Ancapistani 6y ago
    > He even continues to defend Minsky in this letter. Honest question - is there a way in which someone could not immediately condemn Minsky without defending him?
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Say nothing. That's what a competent leader would do. No one wanted RMS's take on Minsky (or pedophilia in general, which he also offered up).
  - concordDance 6y ago
    I'm very unclear on what general priciple you think RMS is violating with the Minsky comments. Is it that you should never defend someone accused of Bad Thing if you are a public figure ij channels that may be related to your work?
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      > Is it that you should never defend someone accused of Bad Thing if you are a public figure ij channels that may be related to your work? That's a part of it (aside from general moral disgust). How does RMS defending an Epstein client help FOSS? It does not, and it detracts enormously.
ncr100 6y ago
Empathizing, no - through 4+ years of Donald Trump I am able to empathize quite well with abusers justifying their actions. I can imagine the sort of mental universe, of checks and balances, of personal expectations, which RMS's mind clearly does. The letter informs me more clearly of his aloofness and care-free attitude towards solving this dear problem. I'll tell you what it does keep me from, accepting him as a leader. The letter is evidence that the abuse will continue, amplified by the visibility and power of a leadership position. > "I've learned something from this about how to be kind to people who have been hurt." Implying that he will continue to hurt people. Of course all of us will ... however his kind of Hurt is the issue. He takes no responsibility for doing the hurting. He provides no reason to this behavior stopping here and now, in this letter. He admits to having difficulty with social interaction, and yet he provides no remedy, no, "Here is how I will fix this going forward." E.g. to solve this, he could use words which have first been edited by an assistant: he could only continue to talk publicly / talk with those whom he "leads" (which is a lot of people given his high-level role) through a filter. This is just an example, however it is unrealistic. It's his job as an adult to lay out a plan to remedy this. Linus had a turnaround moment, and wrote a convincing letter. Compare the two. His remedy seems to suggest that he might manage to grow his empathetic skills, while retaining his boss-level. That is irresponsible, IMO. This whole issue carries an insulting undertone, as the FSF Board deemed RMS worthy of being leader, when the (former!) supporters disagreed with that value-statement, given his insufficient skills.

Yes

Yeah, it does. In context, this letter, especially given it's posted to the FSF site and not, say, his personal website, is meant to justify electing him to the board and address the backlash against it, and I don't really have much patience for a letter addressing only one of the many complaints people have against allowing him a leadership role. It's dismissive of them.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
He even continues to defend Minsky in this letter. It's not even an apology, it's just more of the same.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  > He even continues to defend Minsky in this letter. Honest question - is there a way in which someone could not immediately condemn Minsky without defending him?
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Say nothing. That's what a competent leader would do. No one wanted RMS's take on Minsky (or pedophilia in general, which he also offered up).
- concordDance 6y ago
  I'm very unclear on what general priciple you think RMS is violating with the Minsky comments. Is it that you should never defend someone accused of Bad Thing if you are a public figure ij channels that may be related to your work?
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    > Is it that you should never defend someone accused of Bad Thing if you are a public figure ij channels that may be related to your work? That's a part of it (aside from general moral disgust). How does RMS defending an Epstein client help FOSS? It does not, and it detracts enormously.

ncr100 6y ago

Empathizing, no - through 4+ years of Donald Trump I am able to empathize quite well with abusers justifying their actions. I can imagine the sort of mental universe, of checks and balances, of personal expectations, which RMS's mind clearly does. The letter informs me more clearly of his aloofness and care-free attitude towards solving this dear problem. I'll tell you what it does keep me from, accepting him as a leader. The letter is evidence that the abuse will continue, amplified by the visibility and power of a leadership position. > "I've learned something from this about how to be kind to people who have been hurt." Implying that he will continue to hurt people. Of course all of us will ... however his kind of Hurt is the issue. He takes no responsibility for doing the hurting. He provides no reason to this behavior stopping here and now, in this letter. He admits to having difficulty with social interaction, and yet he provides no remedy, no, "Here is how I will fix this going forward." E.g. to solve this, he could use words which have first been edited by an assistant: he could only continue to talk publicly / talk with those whom he "leads" (which is a lot of people given his high-level role) through a filter. This is just an example, however it is unrealistic. It's his job as an adult to lay out a plan to remedy this. Linus had a turnaround moment, and wrote a convincing letter. Compare the two. His remedy seems to suggest that he might manage to grow his empathetic skills, while retaining his boss-level. That is irresponsible, IMO. This whole issue carries an insulting undertone, as the FSF Board deemed RMS worthy of being leader, when the (former!) supporters disagreed with that value-statement, given his insufficient skills.