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Dang, but this sounds distressing like the conspiracy theories my mom keeps telling me about -- the bug was manufactured, but not killing enough people, so expe

Dang, but this sounds distressing like the conspiracy theories my mom keeps telling me about -- the bug was manufactured, but not killing enough people, so expect variants to be introduced, with a goal of keeping people isolated and in fear and/or reducing the earth's population. As horrific as it sounds, I'd at least consider asking, "what happens if we weight the trade-offs, and decide to mostly resume life as it was, knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed and a decent chunk of the population (10%?) would die." Aside from being scarred, would a place like that move on without endless restrictions, or, if a jurisdiction did that, they're still at risks from new variants around the world, aren't they? On a different topic, I tend to be against forcing people to vaccinate. But I do wonder, how did things go down with seatbelt laws, in which people are forced to wear them? (Although I think there's only 90% compliance, even now). At what point should a state intervene to save lives? Conversely, at what point can a state decide to not intervene, even when it will cost lives?

xxxxxxx12 6y ago
> knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed I don't think we know that, and frankly I'm reminded of all the counterfactual ranting we get in economic arguments from establishment figures and orthodox, uncritical thinkers (we didn't spend enough, it would have been worse). In both the US and UK, emergency set-ups (nightingale hospitals, the ship sent to NYC, nevermind Javitts center, etc.) went largely unused. It seems these things are highly localized, and in many places never really pan out. Of course, many people over-weight the power of human agency.
juangacovas 6y ago
> knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed and a decent chunk of the population (10%?) would die So you accept in your theory that you can die because of an overwhelmed health care that cannot save you from a trivial otherwise treatment, not Covid19
- armagon 6y ago
  People absolutely die when the health care system is overwhelmed. If you are having a heart attack, say, and can't get to an emergency room, your outcome will be far worse than if you could get to one. Similarly, if you've got an illness that needs treating -- I don't know, strep throat or perhaps diabetes -- and can't get the care because doctors aren't taking new patients, then yes, you might die from that, too.
nradov 6y ago
Even if we had no healthcare system at all the death toll from COVID-19 wouldn't be anywhere near 10% of the population.
djrogers 6y ago
> knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed and a decent chunk of the population (10%?) would die. That's a ridiculous claim. The hospitalization rate for Covid19 isn't even close to 10%, let alone the mortality rate.

xxxxxxx12 6y ago

> knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed I don't think we know that, and frankly I'm reminded of all the counterfactual ranting we get in economic arguments from establishment figures and orthodox, uncritical thinkers (we didn't spend enough, it would have been worse). In both the US and UK, emergency set-ups (nightingale hospitals, the ship sent to NYC, nevermind Javitts center, etc.) went largely unused. It seems these things are highly localized, and in many places never really pan out. Of course, many people over-weight the power of human agency.

juangacovas 6y ago

> knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed and a decent chunk of the population (10%?) would die So you accept in your theory that you can die because of an overwhelmed health care that cannot save you from a trivial otherwise treatment, not Covid19

armagon 6y ago
People absolutely die when the health care system is overwhelmed. If you are having a heart attack, say, and can't get to an emergency room, your outcome will be far worse than if you could get to one. Similarly, if you've got an illness that needs treating -- I don't know, strep throat or perhaps diabetes -- and can't get the care because doctors aren't taking new patients, then yes, you might die from that, too.

nradov 6y ago

Even if we had no healthcare system at all the death toll from COVID-19 wouldn't be anywhere near 10% of the population.

djrogers 6y ago

> knowing that our health care systems will be overwhelmed and a decent chunk of the population (10%?) would die. That's a ridiculous claim. The hospitalization rate for Covid19 isn't even close to 10%, let alone the mortality rate.