4 ms·

Ok... But it is priced like it is made in Europe too... Why would I pay 6 times the price for something I can get for a fraction of the cost?

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
This is always the problem nowadays; we don't want to depend on China, but we also don't want to pay twice as much. We hate how companies like Amazon and Walmart undercut everyone and destroy small businesses, but they're both convenient and cheaper. Stuff bought from AliExpress and co is absolute shit in terms of quality, but it's cheap and quirky. Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? I'm not very good at making sense in comments anymore, but I hope I'm getting a point across. TL;DR, cost always trumps quality and provenance. Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. I believe in Europe the current approach is to push for state subsidies and -funding. Lots of companies I've worked for did a bunch of administration to be eligible to get money from a European innovation fund, for example. It's because a lot of products just aren't as much a runaway success, and there's not nearly as much money flowing from rich investors.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. There is another way than taxes: impose (or, where they exist, drastically increase) minimum standards upon products and manufacturing practices, similar to how we have existing laws about e.g. animal care, and actually enforce them both inside the market (to prevent locals from short-cutting, e.g. by using undocumented immigrants as farm labor) and outside the market (to combat stuff like outright slavery). > Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? For food especially, there is another problem - minimum wages are way too low and rents too high, both in the US and EU. Way too many people have to "choose" low-quality or exploitatively-made food simply because they already are struggling to make ends meet. And of course people are going to get annoyed at politics if they can see rising food prices, which means (together with legal bribery aka "donations" from Big Ag) politicians don't like to impose or tighten standards in agriculture. Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food.
  - necovek 6y ago
    > Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food. Or a blingier car. Never underestimate the bling factor of an object everyone sees you in ;) Anyway, most countries have import taxes (customs tax + VAT in Serbia is paid on both shipping cost and item cost), so while some items are still cheaper to get abroad, getting a 33.90GBP raspberry pi for me would add 12 GBP for shipping, and then 30% of 45.90GBP, or another 13 GBP for a total of 59 GBP: not so cheap anymore. Items from China are similar, and with COVID, shipping charges are frequently bigger than the item cost itself (you get a small $10 item, with a total coming out to like $31). But I'd definitely like to see a move towards higher standards of production, but they are hard to standardize across the world.
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  I would like to depend on China in the same way I would like to depend on the US. We live in a global world and it has the advantage that we can get best e-scooter from China, the best operating system from the US and the best car from Germany. It is really a boon for everyone.
- zambal 6y ago
  It's a difficult problem to tackle for sure. The easy solution (at least, if you allow yourself to simply ignore the consequences of doing so :) would be to just increase import duties so that retail prices match with locally produced products, but I guess that's quite incompatible with the idea of a free market. It also won't make you a popular global player. Still, as a thought experiment, I wonder how it would work out for the global economy if every country/economic block in the world would simply match prices of imported products with comparable locally produced items. I guess one of the big issues would be how to assure comparisons between products are fair.
- Glavnokoman 6y ago
  I'd be willing to pay twice as much. The issue with this scooter is not the price though but the price-to-quality(specs) ratio. I would not want this one for free and they are asking some 2k! Also "It is absolutely impossible to turn your Äike on and ride without turning it on through your personal account on our app." This is a no-go. No way! It is like one of those "security measures" which complicates lives of users without adding much if any to security.
throwaway4good 6y ago
It says it is assembled in Europe which I bet is code word for all the parts are from China. And why is it 10kg heavier than the corresponding Xiaomi?

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

This is always the problem nowadays; we don't want to depend on China, but we also don't want to pay twice as much. We hate how companies like Amazon and Walmart undercut everyone and destroy small businesses, but they're both convenient and cheaper. Stuff bought from AliExpress and co is absolute shit in terms of quality, but it's cheap and quirky. Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? I'm not very good at making sense in comments anymore, but I hope I'm getting a point across. TL;DR, cost always trumps quality and provenance. Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. I believe in Europe the current approach is to push for state subsidies and -funding. Lots of companies I've worked for did a bunch of administration to be eligible to get money from a European innovation fund, for example. It's because a lot of products just aren't as much a runaway success, and there's not nearly as much money flowing from rich investors.

mschuster91 6y ago
> Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. There is another way than taxes: impose (or, where they exist, drastically increase) minimum standards upon products and manufacturing practices, similar to how we have existing laws about e.g. animal care, and actually enforce them both inside the market (to prevent locals from short-cutting, e.g. by using undocumented immigrants as farm labor) and outside the market (to combat stuff like outright slavery). > Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? For food especially, there is another problem - minimum wages are way too low and rents too high, both in the US and EU. Way too many people have to "choose" low-quality or exploitatively-made food simply because they already are struggling to make ends meet. And of course people are going to get annoyed at politics if they can see rising food prices, which means (together with legal bribery aka "donations" from Big Ag) politicians don't like to impose or tighten standards in agriculture. Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food.
- necovek 6y ago
  > Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food. Or a blingier car. Never underestimate the bling factor of an object everyone sees you in ;) Anyway, most countries have import taxes (customs tax + VAT in Serbia is paid on both shipping cost and item cost), so while some items are still cheaper to get abroad, getting a 33.90GBP raspberry pi for me would add 12 GBP for shipping, and then 30% of 45.90GBP, or another 13 GBP for a total of 59 GBP: not so cheap anymore. Items from China are similar, and with COVID, shipping charges are frequently bigger than the item cost itself (you get a small $10 item, with a total coming out to like $31). But I'd definitely like to see a move towards higher standards of production, but they are hard to standardize across the world.
throwaway4good 6y ago
I would like to depend on China in the same way I would like to depend on the US. We live in a global world and it has the advantage that we can get best e-scooter from China, the best operating system from the US and the best car from Germany. It is really a boon for everyone.
zambal 6y ago
It's a difficult problem to tackle for sure. The easy solution (at least, if you allow yourself to simply ignore the consequences of doing so :) would be to just increase import duties so that retail prices match with locally produced products, but I guess that's quite incompatible with the idea of a free market. It also won't make you a popular global player. Still, as a thought experiment, I wonder how it would work out for the global economy if every country/economic block in the world would simply match prices of imported products with comparable locally produced items. I guess one of the big issues would be how to assure comparisons between products are fair.
Glavnokoman 6y ago
I'd be willing to pay twice as much. The issue with this scooter is not the price though but the price-to-quality(specs) ratio. I would not want this one for free and they are asking some 2k! Also "It is absolutely impossible to turn your Äike on and ride without turning it on through your personal account on our app." This is a no-go. No way! It is like one of those "security measures" which complicates lives of users without adding much if any to security.

throwaway4good 6y ago

It says it is assembled in Europe which I bet is code word for all the parts are from China. And why is it 10kg heavier than the corresponding Xiaomi?