6 ms·

Äike – First e-scooter developed and assembled in Europe

43 points by possiblelion 6y ago

switch007 6y ago
I'm looking at it and I just can't see €1,890. Is anyone who is more familiar with e-bikes able to comment on the specs? "It is absolutely impossible to turn your Äike on and ride without turning it on through your personal account on our app." I don't feel like that's a feature. For €1,890 I would not even properly own it. It's a no from me.
- rjzzleep 6y ago
  Vanmoof claimed they will either find your bike or replace it. I don't know if it works but I found that to be indeed quite tempting back when I first saw it a couple years ago. https://www.vanmoof.com https://www.vanmoof.com
  - Traubenfuchs 6y ago
    That doesn't improve their painfully janky automatic gearing though.
thendrill 6y ago
Ok... But it is priced like it is made in Europe too... Why would I pay 6 times the price for something I can get for a fraction of the cost?
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  This is always the problem nowadays; we don't want to depend on China, but we also don't want to pay twice as much. We hate how companies like Amazon and Walmart undercut everyone and destroy small businesses, but they're both convenient and cheaper. Stuff bought from AliExpress and co is absolute shit in terms of quality, but it's cheap and quirky. Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? I'm not very good at making sense in comments anymore, but I hope I'm getting a point across. TL;DR, cost always trumps quality and provenance. Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. I believe in Europe the current approach is to push for state subsidies and -funding. Lots of companies I've worked for did a bunch of administration to be eligible to get money from a European innovation fund, for example. It's because a lot of products just aren't as much a runaway success, and there's not nearly as much money flowing from rich investors.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. There is another way than taxes: impose (or, where they exist, drastically increase) minimum standards upon products and manufacturing practices, similar to how we have existing laws about e.g. animal care, and actually enforce them both inside the market (to prevent locals from short-cutting, e.g. by using undocumented immigrants as farm labor) and outside the market (to combat stuff like outright slavery). > Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? For food especially, there is another problem - minimum wages are way too low and rents too high, both in the US and EU. Way too many people have to "choose" low-quality or exploitatively-made food simply because they already are struggling to make ends meet. And of course people are going to get annoyed at politics if they can see rising food prices, which means (together with legal bribery aka "donations" from Big Ag) politicians don't like to impose or tighten standards in agriculture. Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food.
    - necovek 6y ago
      > Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food. Or a blingier car. Never underestimate the bling factor of an object everyone sees you in ;) Anyway, most countries have import taxes (customs tax + VAT in Serbia is paid on both shipping cost and item cost), so while some items are still cheaper to get abroad, getting a 33.90GBP raspberry pi for me would add 12 GBP for shipping, and then 30% of 45.90GBP, or another 13 GBP for a total of 59 GBP: not so cheap anymore. Items from China are similar, and with COVID, shipping charges are frequently bigger than the item cost itself (you get a small $10 item, with a total coming out to like $31). But I'd definitely like to see a move towards higher standards of production, but they are hard to standardize across the world.
  - throwaway4good 6y ago
    I would like to depend on China in the same way I would like to depend on the US. We live in a global world and it has the advantage that we can get best e-scooter from China, the best operating system from the US and the best car from Germany. It is really a boon for everyone.
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  It says it is assembled in Europe which I bet is code word for all the parts are from China. And why is it 10kg heavier than the corresponding Xiaomi?
switch007 6y ago
If the webmaster is reading: the Zendesk chat covers the cookie banner buttons for me (Firefox). (And I see no option to decline cookies. Is that compliant with the law?)
gambiting 6y ago
"completely unstealable"? I have my doubts "It is absolutely impossible to turn your Äike on and ride without turning it on through your personal account on our app." Ouuufffff.....this will be proven wrong in about 4 hours after release "Don't worry, we will notify you if someone is dumb enough to try abducting your Äike. In fact, we'll notify the whole street with our built-in alarm system." Yes, because that totally worked great for car alarms. "With our connected app and custom GPS tracking system, you'll always know where your scooter is." GPS/GSM jammers are about $50 on many foreign trading sites. Obviously illegal to use but I doubt thieves care.
- SuchAnonMuchWow 6y ago
  also: "run smoothly on air: our pneumatic tires are shock-absorbing things that make for a less bumpy ride" No proper shock absorber is a deal-breaker. Especially in Europe with stone paved streets. "Setting new standards for user experience with customized end-user App" What a nice way to spell "vendor lock-in"
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Oh yes, that's the other thing - since apparently there is no way to start the scooter without the app, expect it to turn into a brick in few years time when the company/app disappears or if they simply decide it's not worth supporting a few years old product anymore.
    - MrDresden 6y ago
      Yeah, as soon as I saw a mention of an app I stopped reading. Why can't these things just use a key like most other powered vehicles!
  - FreshFries 6y ago
    > No proper shock absorber is a deal-breaker. Not to the millions of cyclists in Europe.
    - 6y ago
PhilipTrauner 6y ago
27.5kg strikes me as really heavy considering most other electric scooters come in at around 15kg.
hugg 6y ago
I would love a version without the security system. Personally I don't need it. Also I would like to know how easy it is to change the tires. I had a Xiaomi scooter, which got a flat on the front wheel. Unfortunately trying to change that tire proved itself so hard that I in the end scrapped it.
MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
Instant deal breakers: single handbrake instead of dual no smartphone holder Seriously, guys?
- nicbou 6y ago
  It was designed by people who never used a scooter, whose idea of design is to slap a screen on it and tie it to an app.
  - MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
    The name alone should have been a clue. How long did they brainstorm until they were like "yes guys, we'll go with Äike"?
Gravityloss 6y ago
Can't view cookie options because that page also requires me to accept cookies. So basically page can't be used without accepting cookies. (Firefox 87.0, OSX)
- prawn 6y ago
  The whole site looks like it's at 25% opacity for me. As though it's been dimmed behind a modal, but no modal appears (blocked, perhaps?).
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    Bizarrely, the dimmed effect actually disappears if you change language to French or Estonian.
brettermeier 6y ago
Why is this voted to top??? Who got payed for this?
- the-dude 6y ago
  I asked myself the same question and flagged it.
- greenwich26 6y ago
  HN is dead quiet around now. 2:30am on the West Coast. A few dozen upvotes will put a submission at the top. I don't think it's necessarily a conspiracy.
- yamrzou 6y ago
  It seems to have reached the front page too quickly, it landed directly at the 6th position when it had only a score of 3: http://hnrankings.info/26777008/ http://hnrankings.info/26777008/, which drove it to the top. I guess it's an aberration of the HN ranking algorithm.
- matsemann 6y ago
  > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. And for my sibling comment: > If you flag, please don't also comment that you did. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jpgvm 6y ago
That is an eye wateringly expensive scooter.
dragonsh 6y ago
Its assembled in Europe, does it mean most of the parts are imported from Asia (especially China)? How it compares with Ninebot (i.e. Segway)? Have been using ninebot for a long time and its been very stable and been happy with it. Right now given new e-bike regulations across large cities in Asia, it's almost impossible to ride an e-bike to office. In Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong it's completely banned except for designated areas and paths given people modified their e-bike to go above 70 km/hr and run into deadly accidents with pedestrians or riding on main road with deadly accidents involving cars. The price of this e-bike is quite high not sure how to justify it against Ninebot.
jawngee 6y ago
$2,243 for this is insane. In Vietnam, I just bought an electric motorbike (https://xemaydien.vinfast.vn/en/klara-s/ https://xemaydien.vinfast.vn/en/klara-s/) for half of that. Granted, it's Vietnam, but still.
Closi 6y ago
Oof, the price is eye-watering. Also absolutely no details on this 'theft insurance' available prior to purchase. The terms of service state that this is done under the "terms of the insurance provider" which aren't anywhere to be seen prior to purchase. Second Oof.
throw1742 6y ago
Oh, it's that kind of a scooter. For such a price you can get a small motorcycle in Europe with: https://en.vmotosoco.com https://en.vmotosoco.com It's even more affordable, if you're in India: https://www.revoltmotors.com https://www.revoltmotors.com
- ameen 6y ago
  The best Indian electric scooter is probably from this startup: https://www.atherenergy.com/ https://www.atherenergy.com/
donquichotte 6y ago
I have struggled to see the appeal in those electric scooters since their inception. A bicycle is superior in virtually any category: range, security, acceleration, deceleration, max speed, cargo, maintainability. Also, operation of a bicycle does not need it to connect to a phone running an app. This is a guarantee that the device will be unusable within 5 years, when the app is abandoned, cannot be used with the iPhone 50, and Bluetooth 200.0 is incompatible with old devices, whereas I happily ride my 90's bicycle with minimal maintenance on a daily basis, while getting the additional benefit of a light exercise. EDIT: Related to the actual product: > With our connected app and custom GPS tracking system, you'll always know where your scooter is. What does this mean? Is there a SIM card and an LTE subscription coming with the scooter? Or will I "know where my scooter is" while I am actually standing on it, with the phone in my pocket connected to the scooter via bluetooth?
- supermatt 6y ago
  The MASSIVE plus is storage. They take up a fraction of space of even the most compact bicycle (folding or otherwise). I would have loved an electric scooter while travelling around in an expedition truck a few years back. That said, all the "smart" and "connected" features reduce its appeal for me. Just give me a simple ESC and im happy.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  > A bicycle is superior in virtually any category: range, security, acceleration, deceleration, max speed, cargo, maintainability. Is a bicycle superior in ease of learning? I know in Denmark there are a larger number of people untaught in using bikes in immigrant communities than in the native Danish community. Also in a country where nearly everyone bikes if you don't know how it can be really embarrassing to learn. on edit: I am supposing it is easier to learn ( could certainly be wrong but it looks easy) and if so it might just be easier to use for someone with accessibility issues in learning to bike?
- Traubenfuchs 6y ago
  Scooters are much smaller than bikes. You can easily take them with you in an elevator: Put it under your desk at work, store it at home. Scooters mostly drive by themselves, e-bikes need paddling. Less maintenance, less moving parts. It's an incomparable experience.
adflux 6y ago
LOL. I'll just buy 6 Xiaomi ones for the same price. Can't be stolen my ass... They steal motorcycles (weighing over 150kgs) with audio alarms every day of the week. Toss em into a van with a GPS blocker and drive off! Done. Bye bye 1890 euro scooter.
- Shadonototro 6y ago
  you miss the point let's keep empowering foreign companies, and forget about our local one even more that's how you build future proof civilizations, by depending on foreign countries hopefully you are american
  - nicbou 6y ago
    That's not a reason to blindly buy products that don't fulfil your needs.
    - Shadonototro 6y ago
      Exactly! but that wasn't the point of his comment
denysvitali 6y ago
Not worth the price IMHO. For comparison, a competitor (Xiaomi Mi Scooter Pro) would be around 400 USD. If you're wondering that somebody is going to steal your scooter, bring it always with you or lock it. Worst case scenario you loose 400 USD. They're giving you an "insurance" for those 1800 USD that's valid only a year. Think about it, you can (for the same price) buy 4 scooters and therefore get them stolen 4 times. With the remaining 200 USD you can buy a GPS + LTE module, attach it to the battery and always see the scooter location in real time. Heck, you can even count the LTE subscription in that remaining part. I'm not saying it's a bad product, I'm just saying that's not worth the price (yet).
0-_-0 6y ago
People think that giving a product a nordic-sounding name makes it sound like a quality product. Äike is the Häagen-Dazs of scooters.
timvisee 6y ago
"App-only unlocking" Oh no. "Tires with air" What an innovation!
sschueller 6y ago
According to micro[2] which was one of the first "scooters" before they went electric: "Our scooters are manufactured in China and Germany. Our factories are all certified with the international quality standard ISO 9002. Our products are all manufactured according to the ASTM, EN, ANSI and TUV standards to guarantee maximum quality." [1] [1] https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/faq https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/faq [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Mobility_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Mobility_Systems
srg0 6y ago
Mandatory user tracking is one thing I don't like in the new electric mobility products. I don't want a "smart" always-connected bicycle, scooter, or car. I want a completely offline system with an on-off button. At least with conventional cars there is an option to skip BMWs and get a dumb car. There are vacuum cleaners which don't need an app to work. e-bikes can be used without an app. If I need anything online, I have a phone.
- bamboozled 6y ago
  Face it though, with facial recognition and license plate scanning, it doesn't really matter that much, you're being tracked.
  - srg0 6y ago
    There is a difference who gets the data and how it is used. I may be tracked by the government, which already has my taxes to pay the costs, and it has been around since long before I was born. I may be tracked by my phone OS vendor (Apple or Google). But they have been around long enough, are big enough, have established business models, and are already kings of the mountain, so they're are unlikely to share data with anyone else (It would undermine their public image and competitive advantages). Most startups, on the other hand, eventually run out of cash, and then they and their data are often for sale to the highest bidder. Most companies in less free countries can be strong armed by their governments. So the information which they collect may be the same, but my trust to different entities is completely different. Like most people, I go for a compromise, and I trust some of them, and accept what I can't change. I just want to keep the number of trusted entities as small as possible. The vendors of my car, my bike, my fridge, my vacuum cleaner, and my t-shirt are not among those I want to have any role in my life after I paid them money.
possiblelion 6y ago
Some context on the price and product: I'm not affiliated with the manufacturers of this, but I own their previous model and have used their scooter rent service in Tallinn extensively. Compared to Xiaomi/Ninebot etc these are much-much more comfortable to ride. The larger platform to stand on makes it quite stable and the brakes are much better as well. Just my two cents.
timonoko 6y ago
I just saw first scooter opened up and looted for parts. 10 kilos of brand new lithium batteries must be worth 100 euros or more.
Katonka 6y ago
I think the FIRST one was the Metz Moover. https://www.metz-moover.de/ https://www.metz-moover.de/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
3v1n0 6y ago
Really ugly No suspensions Probably not rain friendly (removable battery done that way, makes it hard to be water resistant) Unclear brakes system (and likely bad). No way to drive if you're phone-less (or battery died) VERY expensive. It's a full no. And I am an European loving Europe.
michele_f 6y ago
They improved lots of aspects, except for affordability. :(

43 points by possiblelion 6y ago

I'm looking at it and I just can't see €1,890. Is anyone who is more familiar with e-bikes able to comment on the specs? "It is absolutely impossible to turn your Äike on and ride without turning it on through your personal account on our app." I don't feel like that's a feature. For €1,890 I would not even properly own it. It's a no from me.

rjzzleep 6y ago
Vanmoof claimed they will either find your bike or replace it. I don't know if it works but I found that to be indeed quite tempting back when I first saw it a couple years ago. https://www.vanmoof.com https://www.vanmoof.com
- Traubenfuchs 6y ago
  That doesn't improve their painfully janky automatic gearing though.

thendrill 6y ago

Ok... But it is priced like it is made in Europe too... Why would I pay 6 times the price for something I can get for a fraction of the cost?

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
This is always the problem nowadays; we don't want to depend on China, but we also don't want to pay twice as much. We hate how companies like Amazon and Walmart undercut everyone and destroy small businesses, but they're both convenient and cheaper. Stuff bought from AliExpress and co is absolute shit in terms of quality, but it's cheap and quirky. Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? I'm not very good at making sense in comments anymore, but I hope I'm getting a point across. TL;DR, cost always trumps quality and provenance. Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. I believe in Europe the current approach is to push for state subsidies and -funding. Lots of companies I've worked for did a bunch of administration to be eligible to get money from a European innovation fund, for example. It's because a lot of products just aren't as much a runaway success, and there's not nearly as much money flowing from rich investors.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is by restricting the free market and becoming more insular - like Trump and his administration tried to do with raising more taxes on stuff from China. There is another way than taxes: impose (or, where they exist, drastically increase) minimum standards upon products and manufacturing practices, similar to how we have existing laws about e.g. animal care, and actually enforce them both inside the market (to prevent locals from short-cutting, e.g. by using undocumented immigrants as farm labor) and outside the market (to combat stuff like outright slavery). > Factory farming is bad, animals are bred to grow chomnk within weeks and it's atrocious, but this organic meat is twice as expensive for the same product, so ???? For food especially, there is another problem - minimum wages are way too low and rents too high, both in the US and EU. Way too many people have to "choose" low-quality or exploitatively-made food simply because they already are struggling to make ends meet. And of course people are going to get annoyed at politics if they can see rising food prices, which means (together with legal bribery aka "donations" from Big Ag) politicians don't like to impose or tighten standards in agriculture. Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food.
  - necovek 6y ago
    > Fix minimum wages and people will automatically go for healthier food. Or a blingier car. Never underestimate the bling factor of an object everyone sees you in ;) Anyway, most countries have import taxes (customs tax + VAT in Serbia is paid on both shipping cost and item cost), so while some items are still cheaper to get abroad, getting a 33.90GBP raspberry pi for me would add 12 GBP for shipping, and then 30% of 45.90GBP, or another 13 GBP for a total of 59 GBP: not so cheap anymore. Items from China are similar, and with COVID, shipping charges are frequently bigger than the item cost itself (you get a small $10 item, with a total coming out to like $31). But I'd definitely like to see a move towards higher standards of production, but they are hard to standardize across the world.
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  I would like to depend on China in the same way I would like to depend on the US. We live in a global world and it has the advantage that we can get best e-scooter from China, the best operating system from the US and the best car from Germany. It is really a boon for everyone.
throwaway4good 6y ago
It says it is assembled in Europe which I bet is code word for all the parts are from China. And why is it 10kg heavier than the corresponding Xiaomi?

switch007 6y ago

If the webmaster is reading: the Zendesk chat covers the cookie banner buttons for me (Firefox). (And I see no option to decline cookies. Is that compliant with the law?)

gambiting 6y ago

"completely unstealable"? I have my doubts "It is absolutely impossible to turn your Äike on and ride without turning it on through your personal account on our app." Ouuufffff.....this will be proven wrong in about 4 hours after release "Don't worry, we will notify you if someone is dumb enough to try abducting your Äike. In fact, we'll notify the whole street with our built-in alarm system." Yes, because that totally worked great for car alarms. "With our connected app and custom GPS tracking system, you'll always know where your scooter is." GPS/GSM jammers are about $50 on many foreign trading sites. Obviously illegal to use but I doubt thieves care.

SuchAnonMuchWow 6y ago
also: "run smoothly on air: our pneumatic tires are shock-absorbing things that make for a less bumpy ride" No proper shock absorber is a deal-breaker. Especially in Europe with stone paved streets. "Setting new standards for user experience with customized end-user App" What a nice way to spell "vendor lock-in"
- gambiting 6y ago
  Oh yes, that's the other thing - since apparently there is no way to start the scooter without the app, expect it to turn into a brick in few years time when the company/app disappears or if they simply decide it's not worth supporting a few years old product anymore.
  - MrDresden 6y ago
    Yeah, as soon as I saw a mention of an app I stopped reading. Why can't these things just use a key like most other powered vehicles!
- FreshFries 6y ago
  > No proper shock absorber is a deal-breaker. Not to the millions of cyclists in Europe.
  - 6y ago

PhilipTrauner 6y ago

27.5kg strikes me as really heavy considering most other electric scooters come in at around 15kg.

hugg 6y ago

I would love a version without the security system. Personally I don't need it. Also I would like to know how easy it is to change the tires. I had a Xiaomi scooter, which got a flat on the front wheel. Unfortunately trying to change that tire proved itself so hard that I in the end scrapped it.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago

Instant deal breakers: single handbrake instead of dual no smartphone holder Seriously, guys?

nicbou 6y ago
It was designed by people who never used a scooter, whose idea of design is to slap a screen on it and tie it to an app.
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
  The name alone should have been a clue. How long did they brainstorm until they were like "yes guys, we'll go with Äike"?

Gravityloss 6y ago

Can't view cookie options because that page also requires me to accept cookies. So basically page can't be used without accepting cookies. (Firefox 87.0, OSX)

prawn 6y ago
The whole site looks like it's at 25% opacity for me. As though it's been dimmed behind a modal, but no modal appears (blocked, perhaps?).
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  Bizarrely, the dimmed effect actually disappears if you change language to French or Estonian.

brettermeier 6y ago

Why is this voted to top??? Who got payed for this?

the-dude 6y ago
I asked myself the same question and flagged it.
greenwich26 6y ago
HN is dead quiet around now. 2:30am on the West Coast. A few dozen upvotes will put a submission at the top. I don't think it's necessarily a conspiracy.
yamrzou 6y ago
It seems to have reached the front page too quickly, it landed directly at the 6th position when it had only a score of 3: http://hnrankings.info/26777008/ http://hnrankings.info/26777008/, which drove it to the top. I guess it's an aberration of the HN ranking algorithm.
matsemann 6y ago
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. And for my sibling comment: > If you flag, please don't also comment that you did. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jpgvm 6y ago

That is an eye wateringly expensive scooter.

dragonsh 6y ago

Its assembled in Europe, does it mean most of the parts are imported from Asia (especially China)? How it compares with Ninebot (i.e. Segway)? Have been using ninebot for a long time and its been very stable and been happy with it. Right now given new e-bike regulations across large cities in Asia, it's almost impossible to ride an e-bike to office. In Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong it's completely banned except for designated areas and paths given people modified their e-bike to go above 70 km/hr and run into deadly accidents with pedestrians or riding on main road with deadly accidents involving cars. The price of this e-bike is quite high not sure how to justify it against Ninebot.

jawngee 6y ago

$2,243 for this is insane. In Vietnam, I just bought an electric motorbike (https://xemaydien.vinfast.vn/en/klara-s/ https://xemaydien.vinfast.vn/en/klara-s/) for half of that. Granted, it's Vietnam, but still.

Closi 6y ago

Oof, the price is eye-watering. Also absolutely no details on this 'theft insurance' available prior to purchase. The terms of service state that this is done under the "terms of the insurance provider" which aren't anywhere to be seen prior to purchase. Second Oof.

throw1742 6y ago

Oh, it's that kind of a scooter. For such a price you can get a small motorcycle in Europe with: https://en.vmotosoco.com https://en.vmotosoco.com It's even more affordable, if you're in India: https://www.revoltmotors.com https://www.revoltmotors.com

ameen 6y ago
The best Indian electric scooter is probably from this startup: https://www.atherenergy.com/ https://www.atherenergy.com/

donquichotte 6y ago

I have struggled to see the appeal in those electric scooters since their inception. A bicycle is superior in virtually any category: range, security, acceleration, deceleration, max speed, cargo, maintainability. Also, operation of a bicycle does not need it to connect to a phone running an app. This is a guarantee that the device will be unusable within 5 years, when the app is abandoned, cannot be used with the iPhone 50, and Bluetooth 200.0 is incompatible with old devices, whereas I happily ride my 90's bicycle with minimal maintenance on a daily basis, while getting the additional benefit of a light exercise. EDIT: Related to the actual product: > With our connected app and custom GPS tracking system, you'll always know where your scooter is. What does this mean? Is there a SIM card and an LTE subscription coming with the scooter? Or will I "know where my scooter is" while I am actually standing on it, with the phone in my pocket connected to the scooter via bluetooth?

supermatt 6y ago
The MASSIVE plus is storage. They take up a fraction of space of even the most compact bicycle (folding or otherwise). I would have loved an electric scooter while travelling around in an expedition truck a few years back. That said, all the "smart" and "connected" features reduce its appeal for me. Just give me a simple ESC and im happy.
bryanrasmussen 6y ago
> A bicycle is superior in virtually any category: range, security, acceleration, deceleration, max speed, cargo, maintainability. Is a bicycle superior in ease of learning? I know in Denmark there are a larger number of people untaught in using bikes in immigrant communities than in the native Danish community. Also in a country where nearly everyone bikes if you don't know how it can be really embarrassing to learn. on edit: I am supposing it is easier to learn ( could certainly be wrong but it looks easy) and if so it might just be easier to use for someone with accessibility issues in learning to bike?
Traubenfuchs 6y ago
Scooters are much smaller than bikes. You can easily take them with you in an elevator: Put it under your desk at work, store it at home. Scooters mostly drive by themselves, e-bikes need paddling. Less maintenance, less moving parts. It's an incomparable experience.

adflux 6y ago

LOL. I'll just buy 6 Xiaomi ones for the same price. Can't be stolen my ass... They steal motorcycles (weighing over 150kgs) with audio alarms every day of the week. Toss em into a van with a GPS blocker and drive off! Done. Bye bye 1890 euro scooter.

Shadonototro 6y ago
you miss the point let's keep empowering foreign companies, and forget about our local one even more that's how you build future proof civilizations, by depending on foreign countries hopefully you are american
- nicbou 6y ago
  That's not a reason to blindly buy products that don't fulfil your needs.
  - Shadonototro 6y ago
    Exactly! but that wasn't the point of his comment

denysvitali 6y ago

Not worth the price IMHO. For comparison, a competitor (Xiaomi Mi Scooter Pro) would be around 400 USD. If you're wondering that somebody is going to steal your scooter, bring it always with you or lock it. Worst case scenario you loose 400 USD. They're giving you an "insurance" for those 1800 USD that's valid only a year. Think about it, you can (for the same price) buy 4 scooters and therefore get them stolen 4 times. With the remaining 200 USD you can buy a GPS + LTE module, attach it to the battery and always see the scooter location in real time. Heck, you can even count the LTE subscription in that remaining part. I'm not saying it's a bad product, I'm just saying that's not worth the price (yet).

0-_-0 6y ago

People think that giving a product a nordic-sounding name makes it sound like a quality product. Äike is the Häagen-Dazs of scooters.

timvisee 6y ago

"App-only unlocking" Oh no. "Tires with air" What an innovation!

sschueller 6y ago

According to micro[2] which was one of the first "scooters" before they went electric: "Our scooters are manufactured in China and Germany. Our factories are all certified with the international quality standard ISO 9002. Our products are all manufactured according to the ASTM, EN, ANSI and TUV standards to guarantee maximum quality." [1] [1] https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/faq https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/faq [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Mobility_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Mobility_Systems

srg0 6y ago

Mandatory user tracking is one thing I don't like in the new electric mobility products. I don't want a "smart" always-connected bicycle, scooter, or car. I want a completely offline system with an on-off button. At least with conventional cars there is an option to skip BMWs and get a dumb car. There are vacuum cleaners which don't need an app to work. e-bikes can be used without an app. If I need anything online, I have a phone.

bamboozled 6y ago
Face it though, with facial recognition and license plate scanning, it doesn't really matter that much, you're being tracked.
- srg0 6y ago
  There is a difference who gets the data and how it is used. I may be tracked by the government, which already has my taxes to pay the costs, and it has been around since long before I was born. I may be tracked by my phone OS vendor (Apple or Google). But they have been around long enough, are big enough, have established business models, and are already kings of the mountain, so they're are unlikely to share data with anyone else (It would undermine their public image and competitive advantages). Most startups, on the other hand, eventually run out of cash, and then they and their data are often for sale to the highest bidder. Most companies in less free countries can be strong armed by their governments. So the information which they collect may be the same, but my trust to different entities is completely different. Like most people, I go for a compromise, and I trust some of them, and accept what I can't change. I just want to keep the number of trusted entities as small as possible. The vendors of my car, my bike, my fridge, my vacuum cleaner, and my t-shirt are not among those I want to have any role in my life after I paid them money.

possiblelion 6y ago

Some context on the price and product: I'm not affiliated with the manufacturers of this, but I own their previous model and have used their scooter rent service in Tallinn extensively. Compared to Xiaomi/Ninebot etc these are much-much more comfortable to ride. The larger platform to stand on makes it quite stable and the brakes are much better as well. Just my two cents.

timonoko 6y ago

I just saw first scooter opened up and looted for parts. 10 kilos of brand new lithium batteries must be worth 100 euros or more.

Katonka 6y ago

I think the FIRST one was the Metz Moover. https://www.metz-moover.de/ https://www.metz-moover.de/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

3v1n0 6y ago

Really ugly No suspensions Probably not rain friendly (removable battery done that way, makes it hard to be water resistant) Unclear brakes system (and likely bad). No way to drive if you're phone-less (or battery died) VERY expensive. It's a full no. And I am an European loving Europe.

michele_f 6y ago

They improved lots of aspects, except for affordability. :(