4 ms·

Who in their right mind would take their psychological advice from a fiction writer?!? First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotio

Who in their right mind would take their psychological advice from a fiction writer?!? First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotion is in your brain. You might get physiological responses in the form of chemicals in your body. That is an effect, not a cause. Second, neocortex is not "thinking brain," its role is to manage social interactions. Cognition is a small part of that. Third, mindfulness is the opposite of any therapy I can think of. It is an ego-depletion technique proven to be detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. Finally, I don't know who performed therapy on the author but some steps seem to be missing: //> when you have an anxiety attack, the only thing you can do is to perform the grounding exercises. Yes, that is the moment you start counting and do square breathing exercises. If people in the military can do it while in stressful situations, you can do it from behind a macbook. Nothing is treated mid-episode. //> once the episode is over, you can explore the trigger. Chances are that your response is healthy, you are in a situation you should be anxious, but your behavioural response is over the top. A trigger contains the stimulus, the circumstance and your personal patterns (e.g. personal experiences). //> part of the role of the therapist is to help you figure out the patterns. The other is to see if your behavioural responses are productive for you or not. If loud sounds make you run like hell, that is a good thing in an active shooter situation or a war theatre. Not so much at a birthday party where a balloon popped. /rant

sabellito 5y ago
> It is an ego-depletion technique proven to be detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. Got any recommended reading on this bit?
- johnsmith4739 5y ago
  On the reduction of self control: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810012000104 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10538...
staticman2 5y ago
Some of us have not found the psychological "advise" of experts to be helpful, and taking advise from a writer seems as potentially helpful as anything else. The slate star codex blog has a post about the gulf between therapist book and reality https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/11/20/book-review-all-therapy-books/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/11/20/book-review-all-therap...
elliekelly 5y ago
> First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotion is in your brain. You might get physiological responses in the form of chemicals in your body. That is an effect, not a cause. Do you have a source for this? I remember seeing an article on (I think) HN about research indicating gut bacteria influences emotions which would seem to me to indicate cause rather than effect. Perhaps it’s impossible to definitively say either way. I can certainly see anxiety being the sort of thing where a feedback loop spirals out of control.
- osacial 5y ago
  Gut bacteria affects brain, by migrating from guts to brain - IT DOES NOT AFFECT BRAIN, WHEN IT IS IN GUT! FFS, just, read those articles properly. I've read it as well, but somehow I don't think, that my gut is as smart as my brain...
- johnsmith4739 5y ago
  Yes: https://www.wired.com/2010/12/fear-brain-amygdala/ https://www.wired.com/2010/12/fear-brain-amygdala/ Gut bacteria influence the production of neurotransmitters therefore it can influence how you 'experience' an emotion. A misbalance in your gut microbiome and the brain's reactions ca be influenced - e.g. cannot transmit effective enough different signals. To clear out any misunderstanding, your gut microbiome cannot 'make' you feel anything on its own. It can either make it easier or more difficult to experience certain emotions. This is an emerging field - look at these 2 publications and see how questionable the conclusions can be: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrgastro.2013.76 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrgastro.2013.76 and https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179017 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
Zelphyr 5y ago
> mindfulness is the opposite of any therapy I can think of. It is an ego-depletion technique proven to be detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. This is simply not true. Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) are two evidence-based, heavily researched forms of therapy that are intimately connected with mindfulness. Second, I encourage you to cite the studies that back your claim that mindfulness is detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. I'm not saying your claim is untrue, but such a claim does warrant backing. > when you have an anxiety attack, the only thing you can do is to perform the grounding exercises. Also not true. There are many things you can do in addition to or instead of grounding exercises. One is to simply allow it to happen or even try to make the panic worse. Paradoxically, that has been shown to ease the panic attack. I have personally experienced this multiple times. It takes a little practice but it is very effective.
- osacial 5y ago
  >One is to simply allow it to happen or even try to make the panic worse. Paradoxically, that has been shown to ease the panic attack. Nope. Not working for me. Though, I might have stronger fight-or-flight reaction than other people. For example, I can't watch beheadings(but I could do them by myself and I am very sure about that). If I force myself to continue watching, then my mind just shuts my brain off and I lose consciousness. Similarly I can't watch needle, when nurse is injecting it into my vein. When I am not watching and have my attention fixed on something else - I feel perfectly fine, and even can make myself not to notice anything. So, MBSR and ACT is completely shite to me and I would be really pissed off if someone would have suggested that I should try them. I think, that johnsmith4739, who mentioned techniques has a point, that this article is basically a crap and has no medical value whatsoever. I think, I start to realize, what op is meaning by ego-depletion technique, as this is exactly what makes me anxious, when everything becomes unreal and where I lose control - that is the thing that makes me most anxious. So, somehow NOTHING that you have written is making sense to me in dealing with my anxiety. Do you actually have some medical background, or have read too much and are here to prove your "expertise" based on what you have read? Which is wrong place to do. EDIT: I had not received any help from doctors on my anxiety issues - most of the issues I was complaining about are now gone and I do not need help in dealing with my other anxiety issues - because "fixing" them(with medications?) will rob me of other things, that I enjoy and where anxiety is just part of how my brain works. I have noticed, that I get really anxious if I am not in control. If I am in control - I feel perfectly fine - in fact I feel more than perfectly fine in such circumstances, where I am in control of everything that affects me and understanding about this relation has come after trying to deal and failing with all the offered techniques. So, I've wasted my time on experiments and failed, so it is time for me to draw the line, cut losses and decide on what is working and I am irritated on touching anything again, that I've tried and that had no effect on me.

sabellito 5y ago

> It is an ego-depletion technique proven to be detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. Got any recommended reading on this bit?

johnsmith4739 5y ago
On the reduction of self control: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810012000104 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10538...

staticman2 5y ago

Some of us have not found the psychological "advise" of experts to be helpful, and taking advise from a writer seems as potentially helpful as anything else. The slate star codex blog has a post about the gulf between therapist book and reality https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/11/20/book-review-all-therapy-books/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/11/20/book-review-all-therap...

elliekelly 5y ago

> First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotion is in your brain. You might get physiological responses in the form of chemicals in your body. That is an effect, not a cause. Do you have a source for this? I remember seeing an article on (I think) HN about research indicating gut bacteria influences emotions which would seem to me to indicate cause rather than effect. Perhaps it’s impossible to definitively say either way. I can certainly see anxiety being the sort of thing where a feedback loop spirals out of control.

osacial 5y ago
Gut bacteria affects brain, by migrating from guts to brain - IT DOES NOT AFFECT BRAIN, WHEN IT IS IN GUT! FFS, just, read those articles properly. I've read it as well, but somehow I don't think, that my gut is as smart as my brain...
johnsmith4739 5y ago
Yes: https://www.wired.com/2010/12/fear-brain-amygdala/ https://www.wired.com/2010/12/fear-brain-amygdala/ Gut bacteria influence the production of neurotransmitters therefore it can influence how you 'experience' an emotion. A misbalance in your gut microbiome and the brain's reactions ca be influenced - e.g. cannot transmit effective enough different signals. To clear out any misunderstanding, your gut microbiome cannot 'make' you feel anything on its own. It can either make it easier or more difficult to experience certain emotions. This is an emerging field - look at these 2 publications and see how questionable the conclusions can be: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrgastro.2013.76 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrgastro.2013.76 and https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179017 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Zelphyr 5y ago

> mindfulness is the opposite of any therapy I can think of. It is an ego-depletion technique proven to be detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. This is simply not true. Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) are two evidence-based, heavily researched forms of therapy that are intimately connected with mindfulness. Second, I encourage you to cite the studies that back your claim that mindfulness is detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. I'm not saying your claim is untrue, but such a claim does warrant backing. > when you have an anxiety attack, the only thing you can do is to perform the grounding exercises. Also not true. There are many things you can do in addition to or instead of grounding exercises. One is to simply allow it to happen or even try to make the panic worse. Paradoxically, that has been shown to ease the panic attack. I have personally experienced this multiple times. It takes a little practice but it is very effective.

osacial 5y ago
>One is to simply allow it to happen or even try to make the panic worse. Paradoxically, that has been shown to ease the panic attack. Nope. Not working for me. Though, I might have stronger fight-or-flight reaction than other people. For example, I can't watch beheadings(but I could do them by myself and I am very sure about that). If I force myself to continue watching, then my mind just shuts my brain off and I lose consciousness. Similarly I can't watch needle, when nurse is injecting it into my vein. When I am not watching and have my attention fixed on something else - I feel perfectly fine, and even can make myself not to notice anything. So, MBSR and ACT is completely shite to me and I would be really pissed off if someone would have suggested that I should try them. I think, that johnsmith4739, who mentioned techniques has a point, that this article is basically a crap and has no medical value whatsoever. I think, I start to realize, what op is meaning by ego-depletion technique, as this is exactly what makes me anxious, when everything becomes unreal and where I lose control - that is the thing that makes me most anxious. So, somehow NOTHING that you have written is making sense to me in dealing with my anxiety. Do you actually have some medical background, or have read too much and are here to prove your "expertise" based on what you have read? Which is wrong place to do. EDIT: I had not received any help from doctors on my anxiety issues - most of the issues I was complaining about are now gone and I do not need help in dealing with my other anxiety issues - because "fixing" them(with medications?) will rob me of other things, that I enjoy and where anxiety is just part of how my brain works. I have noticed, that I get really anxious if I am not in control. If I am in control - I feel perfectly fine - in fact I feel more than perfectly fine in such circumstances, where I am in control of everything that affects me and understanding about this relation has come after trying to deal and failing with all the offered techniques. So, I've wasted my time on experiments and failed, so it is time for me to draw the line, cut losses and decide on what is working and I am irritated on touching anything again, that I've tried and that had no effect on me.