8 ms·

EFF and Bitcoin

146 points by apievangelist 15y ago

rick888 15y ago
"People were misconstruing our acceptance of Bitcoins as an endorsement of Bitcoin" They may not think so, but buy accepting it, they are endorsing it.
- thebooktocome 15y ago
  A couple months ago someone posted the story of a coffeeshop that takes many foreign currencies as a gimmick, to cover over the fact that they don't take credit cards. Do you think they're endorsing the Chinese yuan? There's a difference between passively making a payment technique available and actively promoting it to people. By conflating the two, you're opening yourself up to all sorts of ridiculous claims, like the one above.
  - wonderzombie 15y ago
    Link? Was this the place in the Fremont neighborhood in Seattle?
    - oasisbob 15y ago
      Canal Street Coffee: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2625129 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2625129
  - X-Istence 15y ago
    That is awesome. I've got 20 Euro's lying on my desk and I won't be going back to Europe anytime soon to spend it.
    - panarky 15y ago
      I'll give you 1.80 BTC for those 20.00 EUR.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - X-Istence 15y ago
        Sorry, I don't deal with imaginary currencies.
        Uchikoma 15y ago
        BTC or Euro?
        VMG 15y ago
        I will buy "imaginary" currency from you.
        drunkpotato 15y ago
        Unless you only take payment in trade, you deal almost exclusively with imaginary currencies. All currency is fiction to streamline an economy so we don't have to expend an inordinate amount of time and effort in a barter system. Most currency isn't even printed, just numbers in computer systems, sometimes with a dead tree paper trail.
        X-Istence 15y ago
        Sure, but there is a real system in place that specifies that I am able to get milk per litre for 2 EUR, and purchase a coffee at the local coffee place for 3 EUR, not only that during that entire time I am able to have paper in my hands which has "value" because EVERYONE considers it to be valuable. I can't do the same with Bitcoin, I can't have paper in my wallet, I can't go trade it for real goods right now. There is a lot of fluctuations in the price of Bitcoin, since it is entirely virtual it can easily be attacked and there are no systems in place for me to get my Bitcoin back if there is a fraudulent transaction.
    - joejohnson 15y ago
      I'll give you 2.0 BTC!
  - tedunangst 15y ago
    Absolutely, they are endorsing the Chinese yuan by acknowledging it's a legitimate currency. Why do you think countries make such a big deal about who has embassies with whom? If you accept a currency, you are implicitly saying "I agree that this thing you have given me has value."
    - a3_nm 15y ago
      This makes sense for a material currency, where you wouldn't want to be burdened with useless paper rectangles or metal coins. (Same thing for an embassy, by the way, which has a non-zero cost.) But for donations with a digital currency, I think it was reasonable to hope that they could just publish a Bitcoin address just in case without endorsing it for real, because the cost to receive Bitcoin is essentially zero. (Keep in mind that you don't even need to run the software anymore, you just need to keep a copy of the private key somewhere.) This being said, the EFF's choice is cautious, but sensible. (It's just slightly annoying to see Bitcoin labeled as a "product or service", whereas it's supposed to be a protocol.)
      - tedunangst 15y ago
        The overhead of keeping BTC is probably low, but what happens if they lose that private key? How many people have access to it, what's the protocol for using it, ....? I know if someone sent me some BTC there's a good chance they'd be lost to the world forever. And then people will throw a hissy if you aren't "using" their donation. Maybe their choice of the faucet can be viewed in a different light. They are using the donations to promote and ensure a bright future for bitcoin by spreading the wealth. :)
    - thebooktocome 15y ago
      "I agree that this thing you have given me has value." Can we agree saying this is measurably different from saying, "I would prefer it if you paid me this way."? OP from way back when was claiming the second thing, not the first thing.
  - hrasm 15y ago
    Such an arrangement of payment in a different currency might fly in the US. But I am guessing such stunts in the top two populous countries can get you arrested? edit: s/pretty sure/guessing
- mmaunder 15y ago
  Whether or not accepting it was seen as an endorsement, this is a pretty strong unendorsement considering recent events. So much so that it feels like another nail in a coffin.
- patrickyeon 15y ago
  I think you and the EFF are using different meanings for endorsement. Yes, by accepting it they were saying "we recognize that these BTC have some agreed-upon value and may be exchanged for good or services", and that is one type of endorsement. What they do not want people to take away, though, is an explicit or implicit statement that "we believe in what bitcoin has set out to do, and lend our [moral] support to the effort" and possibly furthermore "we believe this is a legal thing to do and that it is a freedom we will fight to defend." Those statements, explicit or implicit, are a different type of endorsement.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
omouse 15y ago
This is why playing within a broken system is such a pain in the ass and doesn't allow a reform of the system. If everyone followed the EFF's example no one would be trading Bitcoins. Worried about fucking tax evasion and tax laws, wtf.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  When you are a large target championing somewhat risky territory, you cannot be as lackadaisical as one person. Especially when your entire platform is based on morals, ethics and the like.
panarky 15y ago
Does the EFF have the same policy about donations in Facebook Credits, or Xbox Points, or Farmville Farm Coins? What makes bitcoin more dangerous than other digital currencies?
- TeHCrAzY 15y ago
  I had a quick look, and I can't see where the EFF accepts donations in Facebook Credits, Xbox Points or Farmville Farm Coins. (Removed section related to your original comment).
- jasonzemos 15y ago
  Facebook, Microsoft, and Zynga are all indirectly controlled by the state. They can be completely dismantled if we are so inclined. Bitcoin cannot be dismantled via the same direct political power.
adulau 15y ago
"we’re giving the Bitcoins that have been accumulated, or that may accumulate in the future, in the account set up in our name to the Bitcoin faucet" If I understand correctly, EFF has some legal doubts about Bitcoin as a currency. So they give up and will give back randomly the money. Why not doing the same for the existing currencies? or the current financial system? we may have some doubts but it's not a reason to give away the money. The donors usually expect the money to be used for their cause. As a EFF donor (in USD and Bitcoin), I would like to be sure that the money is used for the objectives of the non-profit organization.
sneak 15y ago
What bullshit. I send them money and they don't use it and instead give it away to some unrelated third party? Assholes.
pash 15y ago
"Bitcoin raises untested legal concerns related to securities law, the Stamp Payments Act, tax evasion, consumer protection and money laundering, among others." No it doesn't. Accepting donations in Bitcoins is no different than accepting cash yen or euro or Zimbabwean dollars. You value them at the market's dollar rate for tax purposes. The other objections are thorough nonsense as far as I can tell. "We don't want to mislead our donors." You just did. You took their Bitcoins and did something with them wholly different from what you said you were going to with them. (The EFF says it donated them to the Bitcoin Faucet.) The honest thing, and what your donors expected, would have been to convert them to dollars (or whatever) and spend them as you would any other donation, or to purchase goods and services from the Bitcoin economy to promote your mission. "People were misconstruing our acceptance of Bitcoins as an endorsement of Bitcoin." You were endorsing Bitcoin by using it. Just say, "Bitcoin's the Wild West. We're scared to take them." And leave it at that.
- exit 15y ago
  so do i value them at the market rate when i received them, or when i'm paying taxes, or do i only pay capital gains taxes on them when (haha, if) i sell them?
  - pash 15y ago
    If you're in the United States, "Use the exchange rate prevailing when you receive, pay, or accrue the item." http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=130524,00.html http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=130524,00....
- martincmartin 15y ago
  "Bitcoin raises untested legal concerns related to securities law, the Stamp Payments Act, tax evasion, consumer protection and money laundering, among others." No it doesn't. Accepting donations in Bitcoins is no different than accepting cash yen or euro or Zimbabwean dollars. You value them at the market's dollar rate for tax purposes. The other objections are thorough nonsense as far as I can tell. The EFF is full of lawyers who, presumably, have studies these parts of law at least a little, even if none of them have specialized in it. What's your justification for calling their concerns "thorough nonsense"?
bonch 15y ago
For fuck's sake. Enough with the stupid Bitcoin stories.
gst 15y ago
"[1] We understand that we cannot close the account that has been set up in EFF’s name and that returning the donations to the individual donors would be complex and difficult." Returning the Bitcoins would neither be complex nor difficult. For every transaction you know the sender address and the recipient address. So just return the money to the sender address: as long as the sender didn't remove his old wallet file this address will be valid. (The only case where you can't return money to the sender address is if some type of virtual "bank" like MyBitCoin was used. In that case sender address do not correspond to the addresses of the individual users. However, the large majority of users doesn't use those banks, but runs their own clients.)
- Tichy 15y ago
  Not sure if that is correct. At least the BitCoin client does not show sender addresses, only "you have received x BTC with this address". That is why you ideally give each sender their own address to send to, so that you can track who paid you. Not sure how the internal cryptography works, but I think if the information was available, the client would show it.
  - rmc 15y ago
    http://blockexplorer.com/ http://blockexplorer.com/ will show you. The bitcoin client probably doesn't show it because it would be very long winded and complicated.
  - gst 15y ago
    It does not make sense for the Bitcoin client to do so, because you can only use this information if you know all Bitcoin addresses of the sender (as any one might potentially be used as sender of the Bitcoins). In addition, even the (typical) sender does not know all of his addresses, as some of those addresses are only internally used by the Bitcoin client. Still, if you send the money to any of those addresses it will appear in the wallet of the sender.
- naz 15y ago
  It's possible that some of the addresses that donated to the EFF were single-use throwaway addresses which the original owners may not still have the keys for
JacobIrwin 15y ago
We are looking forward to taking all of the risks laid out in your opinionated statement. Movements/Startups like Bitcoin are the reason Guy Kawasaki uses the half-mimicking quote: "paradigm shifting," in all of his presentations. And Bitcoin is justified, because they are way beyond the elevator pitch.
Tichy 15y ago
I don't get it, and sorry for the BTC story haters, but it is interesting to me. Not only because of BitCoin, but because of general considerations about payment startups. When is something an alternative currency? Would it be illegal for me to donate apples to the EFF, which they could then sell on the farmers market to pay for their servers? Or would that make apples an alternative currency and hence illegal? Just saying - BitCoin calls itself a currency, but personally I consider them to simply be a virtual good. I sold some bitcoin I mined, and I expect that is how I should explain my income to the tax inspector. So I will probably even have to pay VAT. So when is a currency a currency? What is the difference between an apple and a pound note? (Assume the apple never decays).
- ralfd 15y ago
  You can eat it. And make delicious apple pie.
  - danssig 15y ago
    And nice Everquest equipment?
  - mikle 15y ago
    This reply makes the most sense in all of the threads here. We don't have enough info to make scientifically correct claims about Bitcoins but everyone keeps talking about it like it is figured out.
    - Tichy 15y ago
      What do you suggest? Sitting back with some popcorn and waiting for the nice people in the TV to figure it out and explain it to us?
      - mikle 15y ago
        The nice people on TV know even less than us. Only time will explain this. I'm sorry if you feel that sitting with popcorn and watching this mess and waiting for it to stabilize is worse than being an early adopter.
ignifero 15y ago
Maybe they didn't officially endorse it, but by un-accepting it they are unendorsing it, although they would not admit it. Doesn't this decision have something to do with the MtGox hack incident?
sixcorners 15y ago
Their address (I think): http://web.archive.org/web/20101203021130/https://www.eff.org/helpout http://web.archive.org/web/20101203021130/https://www.eff.or... http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe...
bellaire 15y ago
Makes sense. EFF knows the law as well as anyone, the concern here is that they could be entangled in as-yet-unknown legal disputes because of their use of bitcoin. That'd be wasteful of both bitcoin and regular currency donations. I think it makes sense for them to step up and admit that they don't understand the law surrounding bitcoin well enough to be comfortable accepting it. There's no point in assuming an unknown-sized risk just for bitcoin when there's other things in their mission they can work towards. I'd hate to see the EFF financially decimated merely because they accepted bitcoin donations. They are useful people, let them pick their battles.
- wnight 15y ago
  That said, I think it's fair for the Bitcoin people to feel abandoned by the EFF for their sudden refusal to deal with btc without a thorough legal explanation that others could work with. The EFF is pretty much who you'd expect to fight for this type of project and for them to take a sudden and largely unexplained hands-off stance is odd. They do say "[this laundry list of laws] [are potentially related]" but they're aware of the "three felonies a day" nature of our society. What isn't potentially illegal? Besides, most of those issues would go away if they simply resold their btc immediately and claimed that as the donation value. I can see that they don't want to be seen as endorsing the use of Bitcoin specifically, especially storing value in it, but if they immediately resold their btc they'd be using it safely (to avoid a hypothetical btc crash wiping out their funds) and promoting responsible usage of any payment service (storing money in Paypal accounts is a notorious no-no, even though it's denominated in USD).

146 points by apievangelist 15y ago

"People were misconstruing our acceptance of Bitcoins as an endorsement of Bitcoin" They may not think so, but buy accepting it, they are endorsing it.

thebooktocome 15y ago
A couple months ago someone posted the story of a coffeeshop that takes many foreign currencies as a gimmick, to cover over the fact that they don't take credit cards. Do you think they're endorsing the Chinese yuan? There's a difference between passively making a payment technique available and actively promoting it to people. By conflating the two, you're opening yourself up to all sorts of ridiculous claims, like the one above.
- wonderzombie 15y ago
  Link? Was this the place in the Fremont neighborhood in Seattle?
  - oasisbob 15y ago
    Canal Street Coffee: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2625129 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2625129
- X-Istence 15y ago
  That is awesome. I've got 20 Euro's lying on my desk and I won't be going back to Europe anytime soon to spend it.
  - panarky 15y ago
    I'll give you 1.80 BTC for those 20.00 EUR.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - X-Istence 15y ago
      Sorry, I don't deal with imaginary currencies.
      - Uchikoma 15y ago
        BTC or Euro?
      - VMG 15y ago
        I will buy "imaginary" currency from you.
      - drunkpotato 15y ago
        Unless you only take payment in trade, you deal almost exclusively with imaginary currencies. All currency is fiction to streamline an economy so we don't have to expend an inordinate amount of time and effort in a barter system. Most currency isn't even printed, just numbers in computer systems, sometimes with a dead tree paper trail.
        X-Istence 15y ago
        Sure, but there is a real system in place that specifies that I am able to get milk per litre for 2 EUR, and purchase a coffee at the local coffee place for 3 EUR, not only that during that entire time I am able to have paper in my hands which has "value" because EVERYONE considers it to be valuable. I can't do the same with Bitcoin, I can't have paper in my wallet, I can't go trade it for real goods right now. There is a lot of fluctuations in the price of Bitcoin, since it is entirely virtual it can easily be attacked and there are no systems in place for me to get my Bitcoin back if there is a fraudulent transaction.
  - joejohnson 15y ago
    I'll give you 2.0 BTC!
- tedunangst 15y ago
  Absolutely, they are endorsing the Chinese yuan by acknowledging it's a legitimate currency. Why do you think countries make such a big deal about who has embassies with whom? If you accept a currency, you are implicitly saying "I agree that this thing you have given me has value."
  - a3_nm 15y ago
    This makes sense for a material currency, where you wouldn't want to be burdened with useless paper rectangles or metal coins. (Same thing for an embassy, by the way, which has a non-zero cost.) But for donations with a digital currency, I think it was reasonable to hope that they could just publish a Bitcoin address just in case without endorsing it for real, because the cost to receive Bitcoin is essentially zero. (Keep in mind that you don't even need to run the software anymore, you just need to keep a copy of the private key somewhere.) This being said, the EFF's choice is cautious, but sensible. (It's just slightly annoying to see Bitcoin labeled as a "product or service", whereas it's supposed to be a protocol.)
    - tedunangst 15y ago
      The overhead of keeping BTC is probably low, but what happens if they lose that private key? How many people have access to it, what's the protocol for using it, ....? I know if someone sent me some BTC there's a good chance they'd be lost to the world forever. And then people will throw a hissy if you aren't "using" their donation. Maybe their choice of the faucet can be viewed in a different light. They are using the donations to promote and ensure a bright future for bitcoin by spreading the wealth. :)
  - thebooktocome 15y ago
    "I agree that this thing you have given me has value." Can we agree saying this is measurably different from saying, "I would prefer it if you paid me this way."? OP from way back when was claiming the second thing, not the first thing.
- hrasm 15y ago
  Such an arrangement of payment in a different currency might fly in the US. But I am guessing such stunts in the top two populous countries can get you arrested? edit: s/pretty sure/guessing
mmaunder 15y ago
Whether or not accepting it was seen as an endorsement, this is a pretty strong unendorsement considering recent events. So much so that it feels like another nail in a coffin.
patrickyeon 15y ago
I think you and the EFF are using different meanings for endorsement. Yes, by accepting it they were saying "we recognize that these BTC have some agreed-upon value and may be exchanged for good or services", and that is one type of endorsement. What they do not want people to take away, though, is an explicit or implicit statement that "we believe in what bitcoin has set out to do, and lend our [moral] support to the effort" and possibly furthermore "we believe this is a legal thing to do and that it is a freedom we will fight to defend." Those statements, explicit or implicit, are a different type of endorsement.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

omouse 15y ago

This is why playing within a broken system is such a pain in the ass and doesn't allow a reform of the system. If everyone followed the EFF's example no one would be trading Bitcoins. Worried about fucking tax evasion and tax laws, wtf.

sliverstorm 15y ago
When you are a large target championing somewhat risky territory, you cannot be as lackadaisical as one person. Especially when your entire platform is based on morals, ethics and the like.

panarky 15y ago

Does the EFF have the same policy about donations in Facebook Credits, or Xbox Points, or Farmville Farm Coins? What makes bitcoin more dangerous than other digital currencies?

TeHCrAzY 15y ago
I had a quick look, and I can't see where the EFF accepts donations in Facebook Credits, Xbox Points or Farmville Farm Coins. (Removed section related to your original comment).
jasonzemos 15y ago
Facebook, Microsoft, and Zynga are all indirectly controlled by the state. They can be completely dismantled if we are so inclined. Bitcoin cannot be dismantled via the same direct political power.

adulau 15y ago

"we’re giving the Bitcoins that have been accumulated, or that may accumulate in the future, in the account set up in our name to the Bitcoin faucet" If I understand correctly, EFF has some legal doubts about Bitcoin as a currency. So they give up and will give back randomly the money. Why not doing the same for the existing currencies? or the current financial system? we may have some doubts but it's not a reason to give away the money. The donors usually expect the money to be used for their cause. As a EFF donor (in USD and Bitcoin), I would like to be sure that the money is used for the objectives of the non-profit organization.

sneak 15y ago

What bullshit. I send them money and they don't use it and instead give it away to some unrelated third party? Assholes.

pash 15y ago

"Bitcoin raises untested legal concerns related to securities law, the Stamp Payments Act, tax evasion, consumer protection and money laundering, among others." No it doesn't. Accepting donations in Bitcoins is no different than accepting cash yen or euro or Zimbabwean dollars. You value them at the market's dollar rate for tax purposes. The other objections are thorough nonsense as far as I can tell. "We don't want to mislead our donors." You just did. You took their Bitcoins and did something with them wholly different from what you said you were going to with them. (The EFF says it donated them to the Bitcoin Faucet.) The honest thing, and what your donors expected, would have been to convert them to dollars (or whatever) and spend them as you would any other donation, or to purchase goods and services from the Bitcoin economy to promote your mission. "People were misconstruing our acceptance of Bitcoins as an endorsement of Bitcoin." You were endorsing Bitcoin by using it. Just say, "Bitcoin's the Wild West. We're scared to take them." And leave it at that.

exit 15y ago
so do i value them at the market rate when i received them, or when i'm paying taxes, or do i only pay capital gains taxes on them when (haha, if) i sell them?
- pash 15y ago
  If you're in the United States, "Use the exchange rate prevailing when you receive, pay, or accrue the item." http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=130524,00.html http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=130524,00....
martincmartin 15y ago
"Bitcoin raises untested legal concerns related to securities law, the Stamp Payments Act, tax evasion, consumer protection and money laundering, among others." No it doesn't. Accepting donations in Bitcoins is no different than accepting cash yen or euro or Zimbabwean dollars. You value them at the market's dollar rate for tax purposes. The other objections are thorough nonsense as far as I can tell. The EFF is full of lawyers who, presumably, have studies these parts of law at least a little, even if none of them have specialized in it. What's your justification for calling their concerns "thorough nonsense"?

bonch 15y ago

For fuck's sake. Enough with the stupid Bitcoin stories.

gst 15y ago

"[1] We understand that we cannot close the account that has been set up in EFF’s name and that returning the donations to the individual donors would be complex and difficult." Returning the Bitcoins would neither be complex nor difficult. For every transaction you know the sender address and the recipient address. So just return the money to the sender address: as long as the sender didn't remove his old wallet file this address will be valid. (The only case where you can't return money to the sender address is if some type of virtual "bank" like MyBitCoin was used. In that case sender address do not correspond to the addresses of the individual users. However, the large majority of users doesn't use those banks, but runs their own clients.)

Tichy 15y ago
Not sure if that is correct. At least the BitCoin client does not show sender addresses, only "you have received x BTC with this address". That is why you ideally give each sender their own address to send to, so that you can track who paid you. Not sure how the internal cryptography works, but I think if the information was available, the client would show it.
- rmc 15y ago
  http://blockexplorer.com/ http://blockexplorer.com/ will show you. The bitcoin client probably doesn't show it because it would be very long winded and complicated.
- gst 15y ago
  It does not make sense for the Bitcoin client to do so, because you can only use this information if you know all Bitcoin addresses of the sender (as any one might potentially be used as sender of the Bitcoins). In addition, even the (typical) sender does not know all of his addresses, as some of those addresses are only internally used by the Bitcoin client. Still, if you send the money to any of those addresses it will appear in the wallet of the sender.
naz 15y ago
It's possible that some of the addresses that donated to the EFF were single-use throwaway addresses which the original owners may not still have the keys for

JacobIrwin 15y ago

We are looking forward to taking all of the risks laid out in your opinionated statement. Movements/Startups like Bitcoin are the reason Guy Kawasaki uses the half-mimicking quote: "paradigm shifting," in all of his presentations. And Bitcoin is justified, because they are way beyond the elevator pitch.

Tichy 15y ago

I don't get it, and sorry for the BTC story haters, but it is interesting to me. Not only because of BitCoin, but because of general considerations about payment startups. When is something an alternative currency? Would it be illegal for me to donate apples to the EFF, which they could then sell on the farmers market to pay for their servers? Or would that make apples an alternative currency and hence illegal? Just saying - BitCoin calls itself a currency, but personally I consider them to simply be a virtual good. I sold some bitcoin I mined, and I expect that is how I should explain my income to the tax inspector. So I will probably even have to pay VAT. So when is a currency a currency? What is the difference between an apple and a pound note? (Assume the apple never decays).

ralfd 15y ago
You can eat it. And make delicious apple pie.
- danssig 15y ago
  And nice Everquest equipment?
- mikle 15y ago
  This reply makes the most sense in all of the threads here. We don't have enough info to make scientifically correct claims about Bitcoins but everyone keeps talking about it like it is figured out.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    What do you suggest? Sitting back with some popcorn and waiting for the nice people in the TV to figure it out and explain it to us?
    - mikle 15y ago
      The nice people on TV know even less than us. Only time will explain this. I'm sorry if you feel that sitting with popcorn and watching this mess and waiting for it to stabilize is worse than being an early adopter.

ignifero 15y ago

Maybe they didn't officially endorse it, but by un-accepting it they are unendorsing it, although they would not admit it. Doesn't this decision have something to do with the MtGox hack incident?

sixcorners 15y ago

Their address (I think): http://web.archive.org/web/20101203021130/https://www.eff.org/helpout http://web.archive.org/web/20101203021130/https://www.eff.or... http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe...

bellaire 15y ago

Makes sense. EFF knows the law as well as anyone, the concern here is that they could be entangled in as-yet-unknown legal disputes because of their use of bitcoin. That'd be wasteful of both bitcoin and regular currency donations. I think it makes sense for them to step up and admit that they don't understand the law surrounding bitcoin well enough to be comfortable accepting it. There's no point in assuming an unknown-sized risk just for bitcoin when there's other things in their mission they can work towards. I'd hate to see the EFF financially decimated merely because they accepted bitcoin donations. They are useful people, let them pick their battles.

wnight 15y ago
That said, I think it's fair for the Bitcoin people to feel abandoned by the EFF for their sudden refusal to deal with btc without a thorough legal explanation that others could work with. The EFF is pretty much who you'd expect to fight for this type of project and for them to take a sudden and largely unexplained hands-off stance is odd. They do say "[this laundry list of laws] [are potentially related]" but they're aware of the "three felonies a day" nature of our society. What isn't potentially illegal? Besides, most of those issues would go away if they simply resold their btc immediately and claimed that as the donation value. I can see that they don't want to be seen as endorsing the use of Bitcoin specifically, especially storing value in it, but if they immediately resold their btc they'd be using it safely (to avoid a hypothetical btc crash wiping out their funds) and promoting responsible usage of any payment service (storing money in Paypal accounts is a notorious no-no, even though it's denominated in USD).